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Egypt to boost Rafale order by 100 aircrafts as its SU-35 fails to withstand Rafale's spectra electronic attacks

Tai Hai Chen

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Su-35 is vastly inferior to Rafale in terms of tech. It is still stuck with PESA which MiG-31 had in the 1980s.
 

Gomig-21

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Su-35 is vastly inferior to Rafale in terms of tech. It is still stuck with PESA which MiG-31 had in the 1980s.
It's superior but not "vastly" as you put it. Don't forget the Su-35SE's IRBIS-E has a 400km range which exceeds many radars out there including AESAs. It also has L-ban AESA radars on its leading edge wings for additional radar capability as well as the IRST. So it can basically switch between 3 types of radar very effectively to conceal itself as well as confuse the enemy.

It also has many other great attributes that it can use to its advantage including being able to deploy the R-37M hypersonic missile at great distances where not many other aircraft can claim that.

A heavy air superiority fighter is what the EAF has needed and lacked for 50 years and now it has one of, it not the best in the world. So there are many more positives than negatives in this scenario. Hey, China even went out and bought 24 of them That says a lot.
 

serenity

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It's superior but not "vastly" as you put it. Don't forget the Su-35SE's IRBIS-E has a 400km range which exceeds many radars out there including AESAs. It also has L-ban AESA radars on its leading edge wings for additional radar capability as well as the IRST. So it can basically switch between 3 types of radar very effectively to conceal itself as well as confuse the enemy.

It also has many other great attributes that it can use to its advantage including being able to deploy the R-37M hypersonic missile at great distances where not many other aircraft can claim that.

A heavy air superiority fighter is what the EAF has needed and lacked for 50 years and now it has one of, it not the best in the world. So there are many more positives than negatives in this scenario. Hey, China even went out and bought 24 of them That says a lot.
Sorry but you should know the 400km range is not real. How do I explain.

So with irbis, the radar can combine beams and each module is used in a way like constructive interference to enhance search tracking range. However this range is useless except for advertising. It has long been asked in China this question to Su-35 operators and they always need to explain this is for a minor field of view. It is near useless unless you Su-35 has an ability to network with larger radar arrays.

In real world, this becomes totally pointless because if you large command AWACS radar can detect and guide fighters towards the targets where they can locate them around 400km then the Su-35 doing this itself is also useless unless you need this range to fire super long range missile and the missile requires constant painting of target.

The reality without such AWACS would be the Su-35 cannot find the target at 400km. It is like looking through a small keyhole everywhere. If you do not know where to look, the range is useless. Even if you find it, the range is useless because you don't have 400km NEZ missile anyway. For building situational awareness it is useless because you cannot expect to only use the irbis in this manner. It reduces situational awareness if combat if you are only looking through keyhole right? If you have AWACS with 400km range to direct the Irbis radar towards the direction for search, then why do you even need that for situational awareness? So it is 99% useless in 100% of fighting scenario.

Now good modern AESA can also do something similar. At least some of them surely can. They just dont say our radar range is 400km. It is quite inaccurate to claim this.
 

Gomig-21

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So with irbis, the radar can combine beams and each module is used in a way like constructive interference to enhance search tracking range. However this range is useless except for advertising. It has long been asked in China this question to Su-35 operators and they always need to explain this is for a minor field of view. It is near useless unless you Su-35 has an ability to network with larger radar arrays.
And Egypt has a VAST network of radars, in particular the pair of ground radars in the Protivnik-GE and the Resonance-SE, both with around 1,100 km ranges. Those are tied into a complex system that includes Egypt's SAM network as well as the EAF, ground units and naval assets under a central command network.

In real world, this becomes totally pointless because if you large command AWACS radar can detect and guide fighters towards the targets where they can locate them around 400km then the Su-35 doing this itself is also useless unless you need this range to fire super long range missile and the missile requires constant painting of target.
Egypt operates 8 E-2Cs that were upgraded to 2000 series and are currently working on possibly ordering the new AESA E-2D for an order of at least 8 aircraft although the exact number is not known yet. it also has other aircraft in its inventory for this purpose. The EAF has been very proficient at AWACS for quite some time and have dedicated a domestic network to combine all assets including Russian aircraft. Much of this information was previously posted on other threads. @The SC can help if he has a minute to link those, especially with the new data sharing link they've created for that purpose.

And BTW, just FYI, when you say words like "totally useless", it doesn't add anything to the discussion as it makes it seem so unreasonable to responds to such statements. discrediting something that top generals and well experienced military men have studied and researched and are so well-versed in making these decisions only belittles them and their work and status that honestly becomes unattractive to even discuss.

The same can be said about those who claim the EAF's 200 +/- F-16 are "useless" simply because Israel is so afraid of the EAF and what it did to them towards the end of the 1973 war that it begs and pleads to the US to deny the AIM-120 to the EAF. And so people automatically assume the aircraft is "useless" simply because of a high degree of super ignorance among other things.

The reality without such AWACS would be the Su-35 cannot find the target at 400km. It is like looking through a small keyhole everywhere. If you do not know where to look, the range is useless. Even if you find it, the range is useless because you don't have 400km NEZ missile anyway. For building situational awareness it is useless because you cannot expect to only use the irbis in this manner. It reduces situational awareness if combat if you are only looking through keyhole right? If you have AWACS with 400km range to direct the Irbis radar towards the direction for search, then why do you even need that for situational awareness? So it is 99% useless in 100% of fighting scenario.
Again with the useless. Having information of aircraft located at those distances and understanding their vectors and deducing information based on that is super critical in making the right decisions. how the heII could that ever be "useless'? That's because many of you are narrowly focused on strictly BVR aspects and nothing else. You go up in the air with that mentality and I guarantee you you'll be the first shot down!

Briefly, the pilot extrapolates that info and watches if vectors change while communicating and as things develop, it gives him a much better understanding of the enemy's motives hence allowing him to make the best decision. You saying that's 99% useless is a complete lack of understanding how these things work. Sorry to be so blunt.

In real world, this becomes totally pointless because if you large command AWACS radar can detect and guide fighters towards the targets where they can locate them around 400km then the Su-35 doing this itself is also useless unless you need this range to fire super long range missile and the missile requires constant painting of target.
Not with the R-37M hypersonic missile. The "listed" range for that munition is between 150km and 398km LOL! So it's easily deduced that classified range is much greater than 400km and that missile is a dedicated AWACS killer which then puts the enemy at a complete disatvantage. And you say "useless"? :-)
 

serenity

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And Egypt has a VAST network of radars, in particular the pair of ground radars in the Protivnik-GE and the Resonance-SE, both with around 1,100 km ranges. Those are tied into a complex system that includes Egypt's SAM network as well as the EAF, ground units and naval assets under a central command network.



Egypt operates 8 E-2Cs that were upgraded to 2000 series and are currently working on possibly ordering the new AESA E-2D for an order of at least 8 aircraft although the exact number is not known yet. it also has other aircraft in its inventory for this purpose. The EAF has been very proficient at AWACS for quite some time and have dedicated a domestic network to combine all assets including Russian aircraft. Much of this information was previously posted on other threads. @The SC can help if he has a minute to link those, especially with the new data sharing link they've created for that purpose.

And BTW, just FYI, when you say words like "totally useless", it doesn't add anything to the discussion as it makes it seem so unreasonable to responds to such statements. discrediting something that top generals and well experienced military men have studied and researched and are so well-versed in making these decisions only belittles them and their work and status that honestly becomes unattractive to even discuss.

The same can be said about those who claim the EAF's 200 +/- F-16 are "useless" simply because Israel is so afraid of the EAF and what it did to them towards the end of the 1973 war that it begs and pleads to the US to deny the AIM-120 to the EAF. And so people automatically assume the aircraft is "useless" simply because of a high degree of super ignorance among other things.



Again with the useless. Having information of aircraft located at those distances and understanding their vectors and deducing information based on that is super critical in making the right decisions. how the heII could that ever be "useless'? That's because many of you are narrowly focused on strictly BVR aspects and nothing else. You go up in the air with that mentality and I guarantee you you'll be the first shot down!

Briefly, the pilot extrapolates that info and watches if vectors change while communicating and as things develop, it gives him a much better understanding of the enemy's motives hence allowing him to make the best decision. You saying that's 99% useless is a complete lack of understanding how these things work. Sorry to be so blunt.



Not with the R-37M hypersonic missile. The "listed" range for that munition is between 150km and 398km LOL! So it's easily deduced that classified range is much greater than 400km and that missile is a dedicated AWACS killer which then puts the enemy at a complete disatvantage. And you say "useless"? :-)
Oh but believe me having vast networks and types does not equal being able to integrate them. Only US and China have CEC abilities and maybe Russia to some limit. It is not an easy task.

My friend you are simply taking the Russian advertisement number of 400km range without understanding or trying to understand what I am explaining. Anyway I have tried and you have ignored. The range of 400km is useless. You have not understood why. R-37M can be launched with guidance or in general direction and receive mid course changes with information provided by this 400km range yes. This is part of the 1% useful since large planes are definitely bigger than 3m^2 RCS. Now the question is how did that Su-35 find where to look? This is not achievable unless the Su-35 has information from another source about where to look. Since the Russian and Chinese Su-35 may benefit from these forms of datalink, it has this ability okay I admit. In most cases, I do not think Su-35 will just be used as a super long range missile vehicle. The 400km function limits view and will rarely be used unless it is for this purpose. But for this purpose there are much better fighters that can do the job, e.g. stealth aircraft.
 

The SC

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Oh but believe me having vast networks and types does not equal being able to integrate them. Only US and China have CEC abilities and maybe Russia to some limit. It is not an easy task.

My friend you are simply taking the Russian advertisement number of 400km range without understanding or trying to understand what I am explaining. Anyway I have tried and you have ignored. The range of 400km is useless. You have not understood why. R-37M can be launched with guidance or in general direction and receive mid course changes with information provided by this 400km range yes. This is part of the 1% useful since large planes are definitely bigger than 3m^2 RCS. Now the question is how did that Su-35 find where to look? This is not achievable unless the Su-35 has information from another source about where to look. Since the Russian and Chinese Su-35 may benefit from these forms of datalink, it has this ability okay I admit. In most cases, I do not think Su-35 will just be used as a super long range missile vehicle. The 400km function limits view and will rarely be used unless it is for this purpose. But for this purpose there are much better fighters that can do the job, e.g. stealth aircraft.
Command center to facilitate the exchange of RISC2 data and the TIBA-1 military communications satellite..

1620159826450.png


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-...-to-operate-its-fleet-of-mixed-origin.689529/
 

Beny Karachun

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The same can be said about those who claim the EAF's 200 +/- F-16 are "useless" simply because Israel is so afraid of the EAF and what it did to them towards the end of the 1973 war that it begs and pleads to the US to deny the AIM-120 to the EAF.
Lmfao what did the EAF did besides lose?
 

Gomig-21

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Lmfao what did the EAF did besides lose?
Lose? We weren't the ones who tucked our tails between our legs and withdrew halfway across the Sinai and lost the entire supposed vaunted barlev line, were we? If that wasn't a loss of epic proportions I don't know what is loool.

We didn't lose 17 aircraft to 3 over Mansoura in less than an hour which prompts you every year to beg the US and any other country not to sell us advanced air to air weapons because of that beating, are we?
 

The SC

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It always was inferior SU-35 has not performed well against other like F-16, Rafale etc etc
That can be said about the SU-30.. the SU-35 is another matter completely with its 5th generation avionics..

Anyway the article is false as the encounter was between the French Rafale and the Indian Su-30 in the multiparty SKYROS 2021 military exercise between France, Greece. UAE, Egypt and India.. It started in Greece then moved to Egypt and the UAE then to India where the encounter took place.. while the Egyptian SU-35 weren't even in Egypt yet..


And

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...h-air-force/story-yZOYMvNjaANZ7DacxGssTP.html
 

Beny Karachun

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Lose? We weren't the ones who tucked our tails between our legs and withdrew halfway across the Sinai and lost the entire supposed vaunted barlev line, were we? If that wasn't a loss of epic proportions I don't know what is loool.

We didn't lose 17 aircraft to 3 over Mansoura in less than an hour which prompts you every year to beg the US and any other country not to sell us advanced air to air weapons because of that beating, are we?
You definitely tucked your tail. More than that, 8,000 of your soldiers just surrendered to us after we encircled your entire Third Army, a few more days and they all would have died from dehydration.
So of course you ran up and begged to the same USSR that also supplied you with triple the equipment Israel had, to stop Israel from defeating pretty much the only force separating Israeli forces and Cairo.

Yes, you penetrated the mega ultimate, 800 - men strong Bar-Lev line, with 40,000 men army, backed by artillery, airstrikes, months of drills, all that when we had a Jewish holiday which requires us to fast.

An amazing achievement, all that just to be b*tch slapped yet again.

You shot down 2 Israeli jets at the battle of Mansoura.
There were 52 major dogfights between Israeli and Egyptian air forces in 1973, which resulted in 8 Israeli jets shot down, compared to 172 Egyptian jets.

Instead of crying about Israel blocking sales, maybe create your own weapons? If you're capable of that.
 

LeGenD

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That can be said about the SU-30.. the SU-35 is another matter completely with its 5th generation avionics..

Anyway the article is false as the encounter was between the French Rafale and the Indian Su-30 in the multiparty SKYROS 2021 military exercise between France, Greece. UAE, Egypt and India.. It started in Greece then moved to Egypt and the UAE then to India where the encounter took place.. while the Egyptian SU-35 weren't even in Egypt yet..


And

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...h-air-force/story-yZOYMvNjaANZ7DacxGssTP.html
Su-35 does not have 5th generation avionics. It is 4th generation on all counts.

Su-57 is not true 5th generation either.
 

The SC

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You definitely tucked your tail. More than that, 8,000 of your soldiers just surrendered to us after we encircled your entire Third Army, a few more days and they all would have died from dehydration.
So of course you ran up and begged to the same USSR that also supplied you with triple the equipment Israel had, to stop Israel from defeating pretty much the only force separating Israeli forces and Cairo.

Yes, you penetrated the mega ultimate, 800 - men strong Bar-Lev line, with 40,000 men army, backed by artillery, airstrikes, months of drills, all that when we had a Jewish holiday which requires us to fast.

An amazing achievement, all that just to be b*tch slapped yet again.

You shot down 2 Israeli jets at the battle of Mansoura.
There were 52 major dogfights between Israeli and Egyptian air forces in 1973, which resulted in 8 Israeli jets shot down, compared to 172 Egyptian jets.

Instead of crying about Israel blocking sales, maybe create your own weapons? If you're capable of that.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/1973-arab-israeli-conflict-the-truth-once-and-for-all.315824/
 

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