• Sunday, November 17, 2019

Egypt Buys Rafale and FREMM

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by Frogman, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. That Guy

    That Guy PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    It is view based on geopolitical realities, I fully understand why you would be skeptical. I would be too, if I was in your place, but I'm not. I've made my views clear with an explanation as to why I believe such a thing, and I see no reason to change them, it is completely up to you to believe them or not.

    By the way, people keep throwing around the term "conspiracy theory" but don't really know what it really means. No, my views are not a conspiracy, it is mere speculation based on my understand of the situation on the ground. Simple example, I have said before that Egypt would have no qualm of air raiding neighboring nations if it deemed fit, and everyone laughed at me, telling me that there was no proof and that I was talking out of my ***, turns out that I was right.

    Don't simply dismiss someone else's argument because there is no real physical evidence. There is no physical evidence that India supports Baluchistani militants, or that the ISI has links with the Afghan taliban, but we all know the truth.

    Any idea of the weapon's package that Egypt will be getting with this deal? Considering Israel, there is a chance the French may restrict some weapons to Egypt, considering the US and Israel will probably put pressure on the deal to water it down as much as possible.
     
  2. CMYX4BJ

    CMYX4BJ FULL MEMBER

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    Israel gave Egypt Sinai back in return for a peace deal, which has been holding for a long long time. It is highly unlikely that Egypt considers Israel as the enemy. This deal is probably meant for domestic security ( for example , to bomb ISIS if it ever comes to that) and to keep countries like Eithopia in check since they have been planning to build dams on the nile river.
     
  3. monitor

    monitor SENIOR MEMBER

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    France To Modify Rafales for Egypt
    By Pierre Tran4:16 p.m. EDT March 14, 2015
    418TWEET 35LINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE
    PARIS — The Rafale fighter jets sold to Egypt will be modified to remove nuclear missile capability and NATO standard communications, a source close to the deal said.

    "There will be a few modifications," the source said.

    Once adapted, the fighters will be delivered, with the first three in time for Egyptian pilots to fly the twin-engine fighter in Egyptian colors over the opening of a new waterway on the Suez Canal in August.

    One of the Rafale upgrades to F3 standard in 2008 was the air-sol moyenne portée améliorée (ASMPA) missile tipped with the TN-200 nuclear warhead. That capability will be taken off the fighters for Egypt.

    As Egypt is not part of NATO, the communication system will be adapted.

    The Rafale was part of a French arms deal worth €5.2 billion (US $5.5 billion) and signed Feb. 16 in Cairo, comprising also a DCNS FREMM multimission frigate and missiles reported to be from MBDA and Sagem.

    On the frigate, the systems will be translated into English and Arabic and the combat systems adapted to take out the naval cruise missile capability, a second source said. The warship had been built for the French Navy and due for handover as the Normandie.

    Egypt has started paying for its order for 24 Rafales, the first export win for the fighter jet for which France has long struggled to find a foreign buyer, Dassault Aviation Chairman Eric Trappier said.

    "The contract with Egypt is now in effect. The first check landed at the start of the week," he said at the March 11 press conference on the 2014 financial results.

    Egypt paid a price similar to that paid by France for the fighters, he said.

    Dassault will deliver five Rafales to France this year, and the first batch of three to Egypt, with a second three-strong batch in December or January, he said.

    Modifying the fighters is a key factor in the timing of delivery to Egypt, the first source said.

    The French authorities are discussing the schedule for Egypt, as there is a "substitution" effect on deliveries that had been due for the French Air Force and Navy, Trappier said.

    Annual production will remain at 11 units, or one per month, and output could rise to a little more than 2.5 units per month, he said.

    The company hopes for a second export deal this year, Trappier said on March 4, when President François Hollande visited the Merignac assembly line near Bordeaux, southwest France. This was the first visit by a French head of state to the aircraft factory, and Hollande welcomed the sale of the fighter to Egypt.

    Hollande sat in a Rafale cockpit on his tour, a contrast with the widely reported political chill directed at Dassault when the Socialist party won the 2012 general election.

    Trappier has said he expects a snowball effect, with other countries placing orders.

    "I am sure there will be others," Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said at a March 11 press conference on his agenda for 2015, when asked about the potential sale to Qatar and Malaysia.

    Government and industry worked together on the Egyptian order and it is the same approach with other countries, he said.

    Then-French President Nicolas Sarkozy had set up a "war room" in the Elysées presidential office for selling the Rafale following Morocco's pick of the F-16 over the Rafale. Morocco is a former French protectorate.

    On negotiations with India, Dassault has agreed for the first time that India's state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) will be the co-contractor, not a subcontractor, on the Rafale, Trappier said. HAL would guarantee assembly of the Rafale in India, while Dassault would be guarantor for the French work.

    Indian authorities had previously asked Dassault to assume overall guarantee for work in India.

    India wants a maximum of work under the "Make In India" drive.

    The speed at which the technology is transferred to allow full Indian domestic assembly is part of the negotiations, Trappier said. The first 18 units will be built in France, with the 19th to be assembled in India.

    French industry will continue to build the subsystems, which will be shipped for assembly in Bangalore, he said. Over time the manufacture, including the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, will be "phased" over to Indian partners. The timetable is part of the negotiations.

    Trappier said he was not worried about the Russian push to sell the Suhkoi Su-30 to India. "The Russians are worried about the Rafale," he said.

    On the Indian agreement to study with Sukhoi a fifth-generation Su-35S, it is unclear what that entails as fifth-generation is a US classification, he said.

    Dassault is patient and tenacious in its pursuit of the Indian deal for 126 fighters, Trappier said. India took some 22 years to pick the BAE Systems Hawk trainer over the Dassault Alpha jet, and that is a much simpler aircraft than the multimission fighter.

    The first two Mirage 2000 fighters upgraded by Dassault and Thales are due to be delivered to India soon, he said. The Indian Navy expressed interest in a carrier-borne version of the Rafale.

    Trappier declined to comment on Qatar and said talks are continuing with Malaysia. Discussions are being held with the United Arab Emirates, but these are not contract negotiations, he said.

    Dassault has delivered 137 Rafales to France, with 43 remaining in the present fourth tranche. The company expects delivery in 2018 of the upgraded F3R version, adapted to fire the Meteor beyond-visual-range missile. Egypt will also receive that advanced version.

    The French Navy has received two fighters upgraded to the F3 version from F1 with the remaining eight due to be modernized over two years.

    Dassault reported net profit of €398 million, down from €487 million a year ago, on sales of €3.7 billion, down from €4.6 billion. The lower profit and sales stemmed from a weak market for the Falcon business jet. A bounce-back of Falcon orders to 90 last year from 64 signals a financial recovery for 2016.

    New orders were worth €4.6 billion, up from €4.2 billion, with exports accounting for 89 percent. Net profit was 10.8 percent of sales.

    Defense orders totaled €693 million, down from €1.26 billion. The 2013 figure included the F3R contract for the Rafale and upgrade for the Atlantique 2 maritime patrol aircraft.

    The total order book is €8.2 billion. Cash fell to €2.4 billion from €3.7 billion, as the company bought Dassault shares sold by Airbus.

    Expected large defense export orders will likely absorb the market impact of Airbus further selling down its stake in Dassault, brokerage CM-CIC said in a research note.

    Email: ptran@defensenews.com
     
  4. Taygibay

    Taygibay PROFESSIONAL

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    Usual strange stuff from this news outfit :
    The whole part about the nukes is utter and complete BS.
    The software part is as easily done as deleting a folder. What makes the Rafale a nuclear vector is instead the addition of a "presidential" control keys housing. That does not need to be taken off!
    Why? Because it is an add-on! The Raffys in France are "mutualized" meaning they are shared by different squadrons.
    When the Gascogne ( nuclear one ) gets a plane from the pool, the technicians strap on the nuke kit, that's all!
    Rafales off the assembly line do not come with those.
    Just about everything is plug and play on this plane : AESA / PESA are interchangeable in a big hour ( due to having the same back end ), an engine can be changed in roughly 3+hrs, etc.

    Changing the Link 16 to a different standard is barely tougher. Because the Egyptian Raffys are coming straight off the assembly line. The only problem is then receiving the replacements in due time.
    Of course, if they pick those nearest to completion they may have to remove the parts first and there, possibly, a bit of software rewriting may need to be done.

    Still, it is nothing major and less time consuming than training pilots ( It's quite possible those in the 3 Rafales for this summer's fly-by will be French ones "on loan" ).

    I'm guessing someone had to stuff his article to sell copies.
    Check this strange phrase for instance :
    So huh? production rate remains as is but output goes up?

    WTF? Do they breed them in the yard by the factory now? :cheesy:

    I actually know the answer but it's not necessary, the point is
    another journo with mental diarrhea, sorry for the English.

    Tssssk, good day all, Tay.
     
  5. MICA

    MICA FULL MEMBER

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    is egypt getting the aesa radar on the rafale ?
     
  6. Taygibay

    Taygibay PROFESSIONAL

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    Yes Kamal bro! 2 things to validate this :

    A- You are paying full price ( even with France backing the loan );
    B- The AESA has replaced the PESA on the assembly line a year ago.

    Rafale was made to evolve that way so what you see is what you get.
    Unless someone switches old second-hand RBE-2s from earlier ones in our stock …:eek:
    In which case, I strongly suggest that you guys complain about it?

    JK, yes AESA!
    Good evening, Tay.
     
  7. BordoEnes

    BordoEnes SENIOR MEMBER

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    But.... But we have Milgems.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. MICA

    MICA FULL MEMBER

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    no we are not complaining :)

    i don't know why all the FB pages are talking about that the F3R is the one that is coming to us , but i won't bother unless we got a contract for the Meteor
     
  9. Taygibay

    Taygibay PROFESSIONAL

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    Because, like most journalists of the main press, they know not what they're talking about, that simple!
    F3R is for 2018 although it could get here earlier, say if India finally signed or another big contract came along
    that included the Meteor. Barring that 2018 possibly early in the year.

    @BordoEnes Don't mention Milgems mate, with the row between Erdogan and al-Sisi, the face-off
    between them and the FREMM may be tempting to some? :ph34r:

    Just kidding good day both, Tay.,
     
  10. MICA

    MICA FULL MEMBER

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    they are saying here that we are getting the meteor plus the black shaheen version of the SCALP Lol
     
  11. Taygibay

    Taygibay PROFESSIONAL

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    Kamal_dbk

    External tanks, AASM
    MICA IR/EM … MK82/83/84 ( dumb bombs ) and yes Black Shaheen!
    At least, it is said to be available if not in the order.
    The only things yours won't have in the present format are Exocets and GBUs
    the latter due to the Raytheon kit being under US approval.

    Your first payment was received and cashed in BTW so relax and enjoy brother!

    Signing off for the night, read you later, Tay.
     
  12. MICA

    MICA FULL MEMBER

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    i think we already got some older versions 1861692.jpg Alphajet_egypt7.jpg
     
  13. Taygibay

    Taygibay PROFESSIONAL

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    Kamal_dbk
    Whoa! Nice clean looking Gadget there!
    Airliners.net always has great pics.

    But what provides the radar his to fire the Exocet if you don't mind me asking?

    Tay.
     
  14. MICA

    MICA FULL MEMBER

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    honestly i don't know because if i am correct the alpha jet don't have a radar and the egyptian MS2 version includes only some new electronics , avionics improvements upgraded engine, Magic Air-to-Air missiles and a Lancier glass cockpit.

    so maybe this egy alpha jet in the picture was a prototype for the alpha jet 3 project and they were using this plane to test it and btw this photo is not in egypt
     
  15. Taygibay

    Taygibay PROFESSIONAL

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    That's why I asked but a simple solution would be for the plane to launch over comm link
    with say a ship or C2 platform the provides the targeting feed?

    Later bro, Tay.