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Economist: USA's War on Terror cost Pakistan $252bn while received aid was $33bn

Reddington

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Shouldnt we have pushed the narrative that the Parliament attack was or couldve been an insider attack to create pressure on Pakistan's eastern front so we keep our eyes and efforts off the western front?
For that we need aggressive diplomacy by the government & sharp diplomats in foreign office.
 

Reddington

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And do we have that now? because for a long time the only effective diplomats in our embassies were the Defence Attaches
Did our government use aggressive diplomacy to tell the world that the recent Pulwama event was an inside job done by RAW??
Incompetency is everywhere. Government/diplomats are not upto the mark in foreign policy. This has been the case for a long long time.
 

Taimur Khurram

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the war on terror never occurred, Pakistan's GDP would be $600-700 billion dollars today, and it's debt to gdp ration would be a lot smaller, and the energy and financial crises would have been dealt with quickly.

The war in Afghanistan has set back Pakistan by at least 2 decades, and has done irreparable damage.
I think that's a wee bit of an exaggeration.
 

scionofPakwattan

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I think that's a wee bit of an exaggeration.
Not really, if you look at all the FDI that was set to flow into Pakistan during early Musharraf era, all that textile business that went from Pakistan to bangla, and all the leather and sports industry and surgical equipment industry would have thrived and our exports would have increased. we would be exporting meat and dairy by the ships and also we would have been exporting tonnes of fruit. so its not far fetched to believe that Pakistan would be in a considerably better shape-if our economy grew at around 7% since 2002, we would be at a 400B mark already especially if CPEC was implemented on time and in an honest fashion. As usual our punjabi and sindhi politicians fucked it up.
 

ShaikhKamal

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There were many people on PDF who supported Pakistan joining Saudi Arabia and UAE in Yemen war. But wisely Pakistan Parliament refused and now we dodged that bullet and stayed out of Yemen war. UAE and Saudi Arabia would have counted on Pakistan losing it's honor and blood for peanuts from these monarchies. Egypt also refused to participate but UAE and Saudi Arabia only displayed their anger against Pakistan.
 

That Guy

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I think that's a wee bit of an exaggeration.
It isn't. Pakistan has lost 200 billion to the Afghan refugee crisis, and 200 billion to the war fight itself.

It's not an exaggeration to say that Pakistan would have double the current GDP it has right now.

TTP were born before that. It drew its ranks from the various forces of the 90s such as TNSM and various kashmir and south punjab linked groups.

TNSM actually blocked kohistan road in order to make government try to enforce "shariah" in the 90s.

The father of Major Amir was a cleric (Panjpeeri group) whose teachings were directly responsible for radicalization in Swat, Bajaur and FATA.

There was a time when I saw pamphlets being distributed for crowd funding so called Jihad in 1999-2000. I used to listen to the local mullah's sermons on friday who used to go to Afghanistan for "Jihad" after every few months. The kind of sermons that were then used later on via FM in swat. The kind that resulted in liquidation of two mullahs by the army in my village for their support to TTP elements in 2009.

It was later that i realized in mid 2005/7 that it was all a sham. The funds were not being used to fund "Jihad" in Chechnya, IOK, Palestine. It was being used to fund their sham operations and extremism inside Pakistan.

Only the shortsightedness of our leaders has resulted in this hydra of terrorism. TTP was here much before present WOT.

We just failed to realize that its impact like the syrians in Raqqa until it was too late.

You can't use proxy warfare without covering your own flanks. Unless you have the political, human and financial capital to bear losses, I think it is time to cut our losses and bug out.

Focus on what we have, protect our borders and develop our economy and conventional strength. We have too many fault lines in our society and we should reduce them before focusing outwards.




The others may forget but I remember khooni chowk.
What you're arguing about is the ideology, not the group itself.
 

Zulfiqar

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It isn't. Pakistan has lost 200 billion to the Afghan refugee crisis, and 200 billion to the war fight itself.

It's not an exaggeration to say that Pakistan would have double the current GDP it has right now.


What you're arguing about is the ideology, not the group itself.

Groups were already there but had different orientation back then with different names.

Moreover discounting ideology is a bad thing as it results in focus on end result and not the root cause.
 

That Guy

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Groups were already there but had different orientation back then with different names.

Moreover discounting ideology is a bad thing as it results in focus on end result and not the root cause.
I agree, ideologies shouldn't be discounted, buts wrong to suggest ttp was there, when it wasn't. While it is true that various groups did exist, most of them were mainly nonviolent, or at least didn't commit violence against the Pakistani state. It wasn't until the Lal Masjid incident, when all these groups banded together and created the ttp, where they unified their ideologies got rid of their differences, and decided to take up arms against the state.
 

Zulfiqar

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I agree, ideologies shouldn't be discounted, buts wrong to suggest ttp was there, when it wasn't. While it is true that various groups did exist, most of them were mainly nonviolent, or at least didn't commit violence against the Pakistani state. It wasn't until the Lal Masjid incident, when all these groups banded together and created the ttp, where they unified their ideologies got rid of their differences, and decided to take up arms against the state.

We are talking about the reason of WOT and terrorists. Names change all the time. Look at the cadre of Isis khurasan which is made up of former TTP elements. I also gave you example of the highway blocking by TSNM.

There was nothing peaceful about them. They did commit violence against people of the state.

These groups were already fighting the state in one form or another when PA officially entered FATA in 2004. They were also fighting the people and local law enforcement agencies of the state prior to that.

Lal masjid operation happened because they challenged the writ of the state resulting in state being morally justified in doing that operation.

FATA based terrorists just used it as an excuse. They were already involved in fighting with the local population in FATA (can quote examples if required).

WOT ops done by Pakistan were justified because we needed to enforce the writ of the state in Western provinces (including in those places where no soldier set foot for many decades.) and to protect the local population affected by these terrorists in those areas.

Those terrorists were not fighting the local population (before PA's presence in those areas) because of Pakistan's involvement in WOT. They were fighting because they wanted to impose their version of sharia and governance in those villages. That also was just a facade. These people were actually goons that used religion to impose hegemony as they craved power, money and influence.

These groups were already there and in action. They just expanded in 2007 because they got more foreign support during that time.

Anyone who still thinks that we should have let them be is only fooling himself. These terrorists had territorial ambitions as seen in swat, buner and other areas.

Anyone who wants to live under them can move to their held territories in Afghanistan or Daesh territory in North Africa, Syria and other places.

The people "living" in Pakistan certainly don't want to live under their rule.
 

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