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Dozens arrested at Sweden riots sparked by planned Quran burnings

Ssan

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It is not speech for a starter.


As I pointed out, burning the Quran is against the religion, but not against the people adhering to the religion.
When the US SC sat to judge on flag burning which was allowed 5-4 split decision, they considered it and all other displays involving burning as speech. Please review your constitutional history. For all legal purposes it is speech. And in fact, it is hate speech.

You know the ironic thing is that Muslims have been burning Qurans from the beginning- it’s one of the two approved ways to get rid of the sacred text when the manuscripts get old. The only contextually difference why it offends Muslims here is because it is done with the intent to be disrespectful. The fact that it is a display meant to incite is evidence enough that it is hate speech.
 

A.P. Richelieu

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When the US SC sat to judge on flag burning which was allowed 5-4 split decision, they considered it and all other displays involving burning as speech. Please review your constitutional history. For all legal purposes it is speech. And in fact, it is hate speech.

You know the ironic thing is that Muslims have been burning Qurans from the beginning- it’s one of the two approved ways to get rid of the sacred text when the manuscripts get old. The only contextually difference why it offends Muslims here is because it is done with the intent to be disrespectful. The fact that it is a display meant to incite is evidence enough that it is hate speech.

The Laws regarding Freedom of Speech are intended to allow people to be disrespectful against policies.
 

Ssan

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The Laws regarding Freedom of Speech are intended to allow people to be disrespectful against policies.
They are not intended to be used against identity groups. Or to spread so much hate against a religious group that said religious group is intimidated to practice religion freely.

There are two trends in Europe, the rise of the right and the re-Christianization.

Religious conflicts will become the norm in the future.

Neoliberalism has failed, and we must admit that diversity is not easy.
It has failed in Europe. That is because in Europe they have a very ethnic understanding of nationalism. It has succeeded to some degree in the US/UK/Canada because these countries have a more civic understanding of nationalism. Also, and I hate to say this, but Europe was the birthplace of fascism and a good portion of Europeans have always had an inclination to that sort of politics
 

A.P. Richelieu

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When the US SC sat to judge on flag burning which was allowed 5-4 split decision, they considered it and all other displays involving burning as speech. Please review your constitutional history. For all legal purposes it is speech. And in fact, it is hate speech.

You know the ironic thing is that Muslims have been burning Qurans from the beginning- it’s one of the two approved ways to get rid of the sacred text when the manuscripts get old. The only contextually difference why it offends Muslims here is because it is done with the intent to be disrespectful. The fact that it is a display meant to incite is evidence enough that it is hate speech.
When Swedish lawyers has gone through the constitution they have come to the conclusion that it is not hate speech or a crime to burn the Quran.

They are not intended to be used against identity groups. Or to spread so much hate against a religious group that said religious group is intimidated to practice religion freely.


It has failed in Europe. That is because in Europe they have a very ethnic understanding of nationalism. It has succeeded to some degree in the US/UK/Canada because these countries have a more civic understanding of nationalism. Also, and I hate to say this, but Europe was the birthplace of fascism and a good portion of Europeans have always had an inclination to that sort of politics

Freedom of Speech is intended to allow criticism against anyone that involves themselves in how the community should be run.
There is no exception for religions, and experts on Swedish Law has concluded that burning a bible or a quran is not a crime.
There is however a high probability that anyone performing such acts may commit other crimes.
 
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Ssan

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When Swedish lawyers has gone through the constitution they have come to the conclusion that it is not hate speech or a crime to burn the Quran.
Some Swedish lawyers sure. For any legal opinion, some other one exists. Lawyers are paid to hold these opinions - doesn’t mean a thing to say that some lawyers think so.
Freedom of Speech is intended to allow criticism against anyone that involves themselves in how the community should be run.
There is no exception for religions, and experts on Swedish Law has concluded that burning a bible or a quran is not a crime.
There is however a high probability that anyone performing such acts may commit other crimes.
Okay, so they will be prosecuted I hope. If not for hate speech, then for incitement, or threatening public order.
 

A.P. Richelieu

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Some Swedish lawyers sure. For any legal opinion, some other one exists. Lawyers are paid to hold these opinions - doesn’t mean a thing to say that some lawyers think so.

Okay, so they will be prosecuted I hope. If not for hate speech, then for incitement, or threatening public order.
It is hard to prosecute someone that asks for permission to hold a demonstration where a Quran will be burned, and then they never show up, and no Quran is burned.
IIRC, there was a similar thing a couple of years ago, and then they were prosecuted for the accompanying hate speech.
The persons trying to kill the police will certainly be prosecuted.
 

Ssan

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It is hard to prosecute someone that asks for permission to hold a demonstration where a Quran will be burned, and then they never show up, and no Quran is burned.
IIRC, there was a similar thing a couple of years ago, and then they were prosecuted for the accompanying hate speech.
The persons trying to kill the police will certainly be prosecuted.
I think they can still be prosecuted for hate speech and incitement - because I hope that you agree that burning stuff is speech and the purpose of this speech is to be disrespectful to Muslim people and incite them to a response (classic parameters of hate speech). That I think it is hate speech doesn’t mean that I agree with people attacking the police btw. I also don’t know why these people would attack the police when nothing actually got burnt either. They should have just taken that as a victory and gone home. But then again, this was probably a mob that was charged up with emotion because the govts have been looking the other way when hate speech is committed against them.
 

Dalit

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I think they can still be prosecuted for hate speech and incitement - because I hope that you agree that burning stuff is speech and the purpose of this speech is to be disrespectful to Muslim people and incite them to a response (classic parameters of hate speech). That I think it is hate speech doesn’t mean that I agree with people attacking the police btw. I also don’t know why these people would attack the police when nothing actually got burnt either. They should have just taken that as a victory and gone home. But then again, this was probably a mob that was charged up with emotion because the govts have been looking the other way when hate speech is committed against them.

Just exercise free speech against Israel or the Holocaust. See how quickly these people get up in arms. These are all excuses to hate an entire set of people. These people have been fooling everyone for a while now with their freedom of expression excuse.
 

Samar111

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Just exercise free speech against Israel or the Holocaust. See how quickly these people get up in arms. These are all excuses to hate an entire set of people. These people have been fooling everyone for a while now with their freedom of expression excuse.
Are you comparing the Quran to the Holocaust? Seriously?
 

Hakwa Nadro

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No, it just shows that Sweden does not restrict attacks on ideas. You can burn the Swedish flag without being punished. Does that mean that Sweden has Suedophobia?
Noone is really think Quran burning is a good idea but certainly supports the right for people to reject any political Ideas in non violent forms.
As I pointed out before, if Blasphemy laws were adopted in Sweden, anyone denying the Holy Trinity could be beheaded.

It is not criminal to deny the holocaust in Sweden.
in Germany it is criminal because they rather lock up assholes than to have an endless argument.
This simply means that Freedom of Expression is limited, and it is limited for a good cause.
Mate I wrote burning the Swedish Constitution but you replied about the Swedish flag, was this a deliberate change of subject or you consider the flag and constitution to be the same?
And for your information you cannot separate Quran and Islam from Muslims. You criticize one, you are criticizing all.
 

A.P. Richelieu

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I think they can still be prosecuted for hate speech and incitement - because I hope that you agree that burning stuff is speech and the purpose of this speech is to be disrespectful to Muslim people and incite them to a response (classic parameters of hate speech). That I think it is hate speech doesn’t mean that I agree with people attacking the police btw. I also don’t know why these people would attack the police when nothing actually got burnt either. They should have just taken that as a victory and gone home. But then again, this was probably a mob that was charged up with emotion because the govts have been looking the other way when hate speech is committed against them.
That is simple, they are part of organised crime.
Many of them are drug dealers and thiefs.
They did not even demonstrate against burning the Quran, and immediately attacked the police.
There are claims that they engaged in hate speech themselves.

Mate I wrote burning the Swedish Constitution but you replied about the Swedish flag, was this a deliberate change of subject or you consider the flag and constitution to be the same?
And for your information you cannot separate Quran and Islam from Muslims. You criticize one, you are criticizing all.
There is no difference, Burning the constitution and flag is the same thing.

It is legal to criticize both the Quran and Muslims In Sweden.
Burning a Quran and burning a Muslim is not the same thing according to Swedish Law.
 

ThunderCat

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I think going forward the best way for muslims to respond to quran burnings would be to give them a taste of their own medicine

Next time there is a quran burning, there should be a peacefull "holohoax truth" rally besides it, and burning of 3 torahs for every quran. And highlighting the wonderful role jews historically played in europe , and playing off every stereotype that exists.

I guarantee you this will immidiatly end. thats the only way they will get the massage.

I agree. Not because I don't believe the Holocaust didn't happen but because I believe free speech should be universal.
 

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