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Does Gen. Kiyani Have To Decide Between Corrupt Politicians or Musharraf?

fatman17

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At this moment Army i dont think so will anything but in case if Musharraf was removed and Zardari forced himself as President and then he tried to rip Army and ISI tear down as he is mulling for the same in collaboration with CIA and US through Unelected agent of CIA/RAW Rehman Malik, then i believe and wish that Kiyani should come into action.


Plus the second posibility is if somehow President dosnt resign and agree to face impeachment and somehow if impeachment fails, the country will be in a crises too so at that time if Army can play any role it should come forward.
i dont think it will go that far - the minute zardari/nawaz try to interfere un-necessarily in army affairs - the jackboots will be out!
 

Contrarian

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Dude you are wrong in your analysis. These people are not new that one can say they need more time to set things in order, in fact the already things that have been set in order have started to deteriorate the foreign reserves are an all time down, the value of ruppee is an all time down, just see the inflation rate which is going an all time high in the history of Pakistan.
The foreign reserves of Pakistan are down, because under Musharraf's rule, Pakistan did not industrialize itself enough to beat the worldwide recession. Had Musharraf's government been able to do that, the foreign reserves though down would not have suffered as great losses.

Inflation is high because the price of crude has risen astronomically. Inflation is a problem not only in Pakistan but has also broken the back of many other countries including India, where it has reached a 12 year high, Vietnam-15 year high and the same for China.

The value of the Pakistani rupee is down because it is directly proportional to inflation and inversely proportional the price of the crude oil which itself affects your economy directly.

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing, NOTHING, that this present govt or any other government could have done to prevent what is happening now after it had been handed the reins by Musharraf.
Heck i could send Manmohan Singh, arguably India's best finance minister with his entire team including Chidambaram and they wouldnt be able to do much better.

To make an economy strong enough to withstand minor shocks takes decades of ground work. A decade that was controlled by Musharraf.

They say a rising tide lifts all boats. The same is true for the economies. There was an increase in demand from developed countries for the past 10 years, and that is why Pakistani economy ALSO started increasing commensurately. Indian economy was also increasing dramatically along with China. What Pakistan did is not extraordinary but a result of a global boom.
Sure, Musharraf govt did clear and carry out reforms, but they were by and large limited.
Please dont attribute the rise of Pakistani economy as the sole work of Musharraf and in no way is the present govt to blame for the current crisis.

If you wanna argue with me do it with logic's not your personal views about this or that. The problem does not lie with me or people who have a little bit of sense to understand that this roti kapra is all BS
Dude, this is what i mean, things HAVE to evolve SLOWLY. In India the biggest election slogan at one point of time used to be roti, kapda aur makan. That was in the 70's and 80's. Now, the biggest vote winner is sadak, bijli and pani. You might think it is of no importance, but it shows a tremendous shift in politics and the development of the nation. Ex: The CM of Delhi-Shiela Dikshit(Congress) has won elections 3 times in a row! That is ONLY and ONLY because of the development she has brought in the city, the highways and the underpasses, the Metro among a variety of things. People are not stupid, they see what is being done and elect her back. For a long time, there was only $hitty hype about other things, but now the people judge differently.

This is done gradually, the people of Pakistan would also do the very same. It takes time for both the people and the politicians.

and nothing more but with the uneducated masses who give vote on Baradari system and not on leadership skills or by judging the caliber of the party leadership and that is what is the most worst for Pakistan. I gave an example to salim too when he was arguing over the same, over how people have voted this time. Also I'm sure you have witnessed NS era, for god sake country was almost nearer to be declared a failed state. If this is the democracy that you are talking about, thanks we are better of without it.
That is what im saying. It takes time for the people as well as the politicians to mature into their roles. The NS era was stopped right in its tracks, and Musharraf came on, now when he went off, NS got elected again. Had Musharraf not intervened, the Pakistani populace might have thrown out NS never to be elected again!

But your Army stopped that cycle, a VERY VERY essential cycle in the formation of democracy in every country. And the Pakistani Army has been doing that consistently for years. This is what i and what everyone else means when we say that it takes decades for democracy to take root. That means a few cycles have to complete before the effect is visible.

Also just review Pakistan's history most of the development that we saw was in the army rule and nothing but chaos in civilian rule. The new government has failed miserably in delivering their promises and even now instead of working for the betterment of the state and its people all they care about is how to impeach the president as if there is nothing else to deal with.
Impeaching the President is a very bold action, and not something that means that the govt has nothing better to do. The development during the Army rule was because of aid from the US increasing under dictatorships and second was the number fiddling by these dictators. Something harder to pull off in a civilian govt when there is an opposition willing to tear you for the slightest fault.

This shows their lack of commitment to their country, their nation, all they care about is personal revenge. Sorry but we are far better off without these democratic thugs. If army can set thing right and put Pakistan back on track then so be it.
Yes, they might be thugs, but your Army has not given your populace a chance to change them, to elect them out. They have not allowed new leaders to emerge. They have incubated a culture of radicalization to suit their needs. Thus you see that the new leaders who do emerge will be radical in nature, harming your country more.
 
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fatman17

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from Crossed Swords...page 444

the next morning, Gen. Asif Nawaz drove into the GHQ for the first time as the army chief. a splendid guard of honour led by a nervous young captain of his parent regiment, 5 Punjab welcomed him to his new job....he began by issuing his Order of the day....as the democratic process has now taken hold, i would like it to be clearly understood that the army must have nothing to do with politics. let the elected representatives do their job, while we concentrate on acquiring ever greater professional excellence. remember, soldering is a fulltime profession that is very demanding and does not brook half-hearted measures...we must avoid involvement in politics and devote ourselves to our profession. let us consolidate our gains and develop realistic and implementable doctrines, organisations and systems that make optimum use of available resources.
 

batmannow

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The foreign reserves of Pakistan are down, because under Musharraf's rule, Pakistan did not industrialize itself enough to beat the worldwide recession. Had Musharraf's government been able to do that, the foreign reserves though down would not have suffered as great losses.

Inflation is high because the price of crude has risen astronomically. Inflation is a problem not only in Pakistan but has also broken the back of many other countries including India, where it has reached a 12 year high, Vietnam-15 year high and the same for China.

The value of the Pakistani rupee is down because it is directly proportional to inflation and inversely proportional the price of the crude oil which itself affects your economy directly.

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing, NOTHING, that this present govt or any other government could have done to prevent what is happening now after it had been handed the reins by Musharraf.
Heck i could send Manmohan Singh, arguably India's best finance minister with his entire team including Chidambaram and they wouldnt be able to do much better.

To make an economy strong enough to withstand minor shocks takes decades of ground work. A decade that was controlled by Musharraf.

They say a rising tide lifts all boats. The same is true for the economies. There was an increase in demand from developed countries for the past 10 years, and that is why Pakistani economy ALSO started increasing commensurately. Indian economy was also increasing dramatically along with China. What Pakistan did is not extraordinary but a result of a global boom.
Sure, Musharraf govt did clear and carry out reforms, but they were by and large limited.
Please dont attribute the rise of Pakistani economy as the sole work of Musharraf and in no way is the present govt to blame for the current crisis.

malaymishra123



My, dear malaymishra123.. sir,

AS, you and your ideas about pakistan are concerned , i am very sory to say that u dont have any clue, what ever u got , i guss its all bassed on... INDIAN TIMES .... old data or your jealousy to a man... who made pakistan become a power and a source of inspiration for the other muslim states.

as your, view of our political leaders , i only can say.... or wish that plz exchange them to your politicians......... send them to pakistan, and take our politicians to INDIA.... guss then you will understand the meaning of crouption???:lol:
 

araz

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The foreign reserves of Pakistan are down, because under Musharraf's rule, Pakistan did not industrialize itself enough to beat the worldwide recession. Had Musharraf's government been able to do that, the foreign reserves though down would not have suffered as great losses.

Inflation is high because the price of crude has risen astronomically. Inflation is a problem not only in Pakistan but has also broken the back of many other countries including India, where it has reached a 12 year high, Vietnam-15 year high and the same for China.

The value of the Pakistani rupee is down because it is directly proportional to inflation and inversely proportional the price of the crude oil which itself affects your economy directly.

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing, NOTHING, that this present govt or any other government could have done to prevent what is happening now after it had been handed the reins by Musharraf.
Heck i could send Manmohan Singh, arguably India's best finance minister with his entire team including Chidambaram and they wouldnt be able to do much better.

To make an economy strong enough to withstand minor shocks takes decades of ground work. A decade that was controlled by Musharraf.

They say a rising tide lifts all boats. The same is true for the economies. There was an increase in demand from developed countries for the past 10 years, and that is why Pakistani economy ALSO started increasing commensurately. Indian economy was also increasing dramatically along with China. What Pakistan did is not extraordinary but a result of a global boom.
Sure, Musharraf govt did clear and carry out reforms, but they were by and large limited.
Please dont attribute the rise of Pakistani economy as the sole work of Musharraf and in no way is the present govt to blame for the current crisis.

malaymishra123



My, dear malaymishra123.. sir,

AS, you and your ideas about pakistan are concerned , i am very sory to say that u dont have any clue, what ever u got , i guss its all bassed on... INDIAN TIMES .... old data or your jealousy to a man... who made pakistan become a power and a source of inspiration for the other muslim states.

as your, view of our political leaders , i only can say.... or wish that plz exchange them to your politicians......... send them to pakistan, and take our politicians to INDIA.... guss then you will understand the meaning of crouption???:lol:
Batman now.
Malay's post is a sensible one and not entrely illogical. I support his views. The problem that I have pointed out in earlier posts is that if you industrialize the nation, then it provides resurces for subsequent growth. Although Musharaf's first couple of yrs were good with decent financial management , we have subsequently had nothing more than this and that sell out of assett and increased remittance and aid. I think the lack of development in energy sector, and industrial out put have been glaringly obvious. the major development was in the building sector, which only provides jobs for limited periods.
I think people attribute a lot to Musharaf that he did not deserve. I dont hink his going will effect what happens to Pakistan. We will make or break our selves irrespective of what happens to Musharraf.
Araz
 

Contrarian

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My, dear malaymishra123.. sir,

AS, you and your ideas about pakistan are concerned , i am very sory to say that u dont have any clue, what ever u got , i guss its all bassed on... INDIAN TIMES .... old data or your jealousy to a man... who made pakistan become a power and a source of inspiration for the other muslim states.

Its sad if you think that. Nothing more nothing less. Its even sadder that you think Pakistan is an inspiration for other muslim states. Your entitled to your views though. There cannot be progress till you acknowledge your mistakes, unless you acknowledge them, you cant overcome them.

as your, view of our political leaders , i only can say.... or wish that plz exchange them to your politicians......... send them to pakistan, and take our politicians to INDIA.... guss then you will understand the meaning of crouption???:lol:
This changes slowly and slowly, there is a lot of corruption in India as well. But it has decreased from what it used to be earlier. This results from these successive cycles.
 

batmannow

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Its sad if you think that. Nothing more nothing less. Its even sadder that you think Pakistan is an inspiration for other muslim states. Your entitled to your views though. There cannot be progress till you acknowledge your mistakes, unless you acknowledge them, you cant overcome them.


This changes slowly and slowly, there is a lot of corruption in India as well. But it has decreased from what it used to be earlier. This results from these successive cycles.
Dear malaymishra123, sir,
I would like, to clear some confusion which has been grown in your mind sir, unlike INDIAN politicians,PAKISTANI politicians are to greedy ,and thier basses of politics arent the same like the indian politicians, plz take a look on them u would find ,most of them are bieng a product of high-class and high powered community of pakistan. which we call in our national lanuage- urdu " JAGIRDARS or WADERASHAHI" !!! 60% of our politicians belong to that community of our socity , the rest of others mostly belong to MILITRY sponsred , or militry backed or militry created politicians. i would like to set the record, its not more than 2% of pakistani politicians were came from middle class, or lower class, so it is the basic problum , what we pakistanis were facing to have a step towards real democratic reforms.:tsk:


Most of our, politicians doesnt have or had the attitude for the democratic reforms, because of thier high- powered backgrounds, pakistani politicians cant have, the thurst and realization for a real democrcy, each one of them , have thier own vested intersts and its the real hurdle in a real democratic system.

ITS, totaly different in INDIA,:lol:...... & yes pakistan is the only muslim state... which was founded on the name of ISALAM and its is the very reason why its a source of
INSPIRATION....:tup::agree::cheers:
 

batmannow

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^^^this is pretty off the topic - wouldnt you think!
Dear, sir fatman17,
sir, i would like to beg a pardon, sir! you are 100% right. the things got out of hand because, my dear comrade mr, malayamishra went ahead with his ideology about PAKISTAN. I would like to appologize about that, i cant read what he was refering too.
Anyway, strange things happend in pakistan. 14 August was the day of independence of pakistan, as it became a day of GEN.KIYANIs backoff from PRESIDENT MUSHARAF back . here is how it was posted n DAILY DAWN:
August 14, 2008 Thursday Sha'aban 11, 1429
Musharraf calls for end to confrontation

President Pervez Musharraf has called for avoiding confrontation and adopting a conciliatory approach to overcome economic crisis and defeat terrorism.

He was speaking at the Salam Pakistan cultural show organised by the PTV at the President House in connection with Independence Day.
his was his first public appearance since the ruling coalition kicked off the impeachment process against him and he used the occasion to express his views on national and regional issues.

However, he deliberately consciously avoided any reference to the performance of the government or the coalition’s impeachment move.

The camera zoomed in on the president several times. He was in causal dress, smoking a cigar and chewing pan, appearing to be in a relaxed mood. He was sharing a sofa with Sehba Musharraf and his mother.

The president called for reconciliation, rather than confrontation, in order to cope with challenges.

He condemned the atrocities in Kashmir, killing of Shaikh Abdul Aziz, a leader of All Parties Hurriyat Conference, and innocent Kashmiri protesters.

No leader from the ruling coalition, nor any import personality from the three services, except the Pakistan Air Force chief, attended the ceremony.
Chief of the Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvaiz Kayani could not attend because he had to attend an Independence Day function at the Military Academy in Kakul.:tsk::disagree::cry:
And here is what "THE INDEPENDENT" is posting in the articles.

©independent.co.uk

Musharraf's day of reckoning
Saturday, 9 August 2008

For the past seven years, Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has been supported by the West on the basis that, whatever his weaknesses within the country, he was still a bulwark against terror in the post-9/11 world. Better the dictator you know than the dark forces which could be unleashed by his demise was the outside view, even when the increasingly embattled leader declared a state of emergency and sacked the judges last year in his efforts to hold on to power.

If this vision of Mr Musharraf as the bastion of stability against chaos in the region was ever true – and it is hard to sustain it in view of his actual record – it is most certainly not true today as he faces impeachment proceedings from the two main parties in government led by Benazir Bhutto's widower, Asif Zardari, and his rival, the former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif. The impeachment itself may or may not prove the occasion of his demise. To effect, it must be voted through by two-thirds of both houses of parliament. Mr Musharraf still has time to weave and cajole as he has always done to buy off his opponents. But as a symbol of his fading authority, even the threat of impeachment is indication enough of how far his power has waned in the past year.
True, his enemies are fractious and divided. Mr Musharraf still has support in the bureaucracy and among some of the traditional political factions. But what is most revealing in the present crisis is how little support he now has from Pakistan's power bases, particularly the army. Even Washington seems to have despaired of his ability to control his country.

Would his fall lead to the chaos some predict? Possibly. But then the truth is that Mr Musharraf's continuance in office has always been untenable since the elections earlier this year put in office foes whom he had previously imprisoned (Zardari) or exiled (Sharif). Pakistan's new government may be weak but it will be no weaker for a change in president, particularly if it can restore, as prelude to impeachment, the judiciary. No one can predict with any confidence a stable road to democracy for the country. But what is most striking about its present crisis is not how important Mr Musharraf is but how irrelevant he has become.:disagree::angry:
 

fatman17

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Dear, sir fatman17,
sir, i would like to beg a pardon, sir! you are 100% right. the things got out of hand because, my dear comrade mr, malayamishra went ahead with his ideology about PAKISTAN. I would like to appologize about that, i cant read what he was refering too.
Anyway, strange things happend in pakistan. 14 August was the day of independence of pakistan, as it became a day of GEN.KIYANIs backoff from PRESIDENT MUSHARAF back . here is how it was posted n DAILY DAWN:
August 14, 2008 Thursday Sha'aban 11, 1429
Musharraf calls for end to confrontation

President Pervez Musharraf has called for avoiding confrontation and adopting a conciliatory approach to overcome economic crisis and defeat terrorism.

He was speaking at the Salam Pakistan cultural show organised by the PTV at the President House in connection with Independence Day.
his was his first public appearance since the ruling coalition kicked off the impeachment process against him and he used the occasion to express his views on national and regional issues.

However, he deliberately consciously avoided any reference to the performance of the government or the coalition’s impeachment move.

The camera zoomed in on the president several times. He was in causal dress, smoking a cigar and chewing pan, appearing to be in a relaxed mood. He was sharing a sofa with Sehba Musharraf and his mother.

The president called for reconciliation, rather than confrontation, in order to cope with challenges.

He condemned the atrocities in Kashmir, killing of Shaikh Abdul Aziz, a leader of All Parties Hurriyat Conference, and innocent Kashmiri protesters.

No leader from the ruling coalition, nor any import personality from the three services, except the Pakistan Air Force chief, attended the ceremony.
Chief of the Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvaiz Kayani could not attend because he had to attend an Independence Day function at the Military Academy in Kakul.:tsk::disagree::cry:
And here is what "THE INDEPENDENT" is posting in the articles.

©independent.co.uk

Musharraf's day of reckoning
Saturday, 9 August 2008

For the past seven years, Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has been supported by the West on the basis that, whatever his weaknesses within the country, he was still a bulwark against terror in the post-9/11 world. Better the dictator you know than the dark forces which could be unleashed by his demise was the outside view, even when the increasingly embattled leader declared a state of emergency and sacked the judges last year in his efforts to hold on to power.

If this vision of Mr Musharraf as the bastion of stability against chaos in the region was ever true – and it is hard to sustain it in view of his actual record – it is most certainly not true today as he faces impeachment proceedings from the two main parties in government led by Benazir Bhutto's widower, Asif Zardari, and his rival, the former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif. The impeachment itself may or may not prove the occasion of his demise. To effect, it must be voted through by two-thirds of both houses of parliament. Mr Musharraf still has time to weave and cajole as he has always done to buy off his opponents. But as a symbol of his fading authority, even the threat of impeachment is indication enough of how far his power has waned in the past year.
True, his enemies are fractious and divided. Mr Musharraf still has support in the bureaucracy and among some of the traditional political factions. But what is most revealing in the present crisis is how little support he now has from Pakistan's power bases, particularly the army. Even Washington seems to have despaired of his ability to control his country.

Would his fall lead to the chaos some predict? Possibly. But then the truth is that Mr Musharraf's continuance in office has always been untenable since the elections earlier this year put in office foes whom he had previously imprisoned (Zardari) or exiled (Sharif). Pakistan's new government may be weak but it will be no weaker for a change in president, particularly if it can restore, as prelude to impeachment, the judiciary. No one can predict with any confidence a stable road to democracy for the country. But what is most striking about its present crisis is not how important Mr Musharraf is but how irrelevant he has become.:disagree::angry:
my dear batmannow - for the past 1-year, the likes of the independent, telegraph, NYTimes and washington post have been asking for the president of pakistan to resign from his post as he was a hinderence in the furthering of democracy in pakistan and were tired of musharraf's flip-flops (according to them all) in the WoT and now suddenly they have realised that there is going to be a "big vaccuum" in the pakistani leadership (sic) after his imminent departure and the "strongest ally" in the WoT will be no more!. i think they deserve this end!
 

batmannow

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my dear batmannow - for the past 1-year, the likes of the independent, telegraph, NYTimes and washington post have been asking for the president of pakistan to resign from his post as he was a hinderence in the furthering of democracy in pakistan and were tired of musharraf's flip-flops (according to them all) in the WoT and now suddenly they have realised that there is going to be a "big vaccuum" in the pakistani leadership (sic) after his imminent departure and the "strongest ally" in the WoT will be no more!. i think they deserve this end!
Dear,Fatman17 sir...
Sir, you are 1000% right about all the mess which was surly created by the westrn media. but sir, there is lot more on stake right now, its again the capability of a pakistani leader who is loyal and! seems to be on the target?
its, not 80s when a pakistani president( late GEN. ZIA-UL-HAQ) can be assinated by CIA by its own ambsder mr, late ARNOLD REFALE.
its not the 70s eara ... when a elected primminster of pakistan( late Z.A. BHUTTO) could be hung on the direction or !!!the backing of CIA.


As a nation we should grow up now! & should start dismentiling the CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCYs bad influence on PAKISTAN.
what ever peoples hopes are from, our new cheif of army( GEN.KIYANI), i guss they will be dejected to understand that he isnt a person like MUSHARAF. it can be the most fatal mistake by MUSHARAF to appoint GEN.KIYANI as a new commander inchief of pakistan army, frist it was principly wrong to apoint a person who was been named by CIA through US sectry of state!

May be, GEN. KIYANI couldbe a good planner or a great thinker within the ranks of other senior OFFICERS, but this capability can prove to be his weekness when the time demands from him. till now it is his reputation, that he thinks a lot, but to make a quick and fast paced dececions long thinking always didnt bear any friuts! thus, ARMY CHIEF OF PAKISTAN should have the capabilties to say...NO.

although, it all MUSHARAFs miscalculations which all resulted in his own falldown & there is no body to blame all this mess, but still i think that he is the most EXPERINCED man to become a PAKISTANI DARE DEVIL PRESIDENT. its not only that easy to say goodbye to MUSHARAF!!! but it couldbe the time for pakistan to say goodbye to every thing.... our nukes and all its capabiites also to open a huge amount of saleable secrets ( A.Q.KHAN) and pakistani red book to USA, plz just try to image ZARDARI as a PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN!!!! & a JUMMA BAZZAR of PAKISTAN?:tsk:

I dont, see GEN.KIYANI as a wall against all those thearts, he is just a brilliant and outstanding PAK ARMY GEN! who can be made an ambsdr to UN or USA for his good services. NOTHING SPECIAL:confused::rolleyes::tsk:
 

opinion786

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=malaymishra123;182964]The foreign reserves of Pakistan are down, because under Musharraf's rule, Pakistan did not industrialize itself enough to beat the worldwide recession. Had Musharraf's government been able to do that, the foreign reserves though down would not have suffered as great losses.
What should he have done? Pakistan an agriculture country should have hijacked the industries of others to industrialize itself?

PAK had $10 billion foreign reserves when Nawaz was in power in 1998, and yet there was no industrialization. Nawaz mis-spent it all after atomic blasts and the reserves fell to $1 billion. Musharraf raised it to $16 billion and kept it intact.

Under Musharraf, Only in 2007, the Infrastructure Industries Index, which measures the performance of Seven industries, i.e. Electricity generation, Natural gas, Crude oil, Petroleum products, Basic metal, Cement and coal, has recorded a 26.2 percent growth in Industrial sector of Pakistan.

Under Musharraf, large scale manufacturing was 30 year high and Construction activity was 17 year high.
PAK became 3rd best in Banking profitablity.
IT industry inproved over 200% to become $2.8 billion worth.
Telecom industry attracted $10 billion investment and has magnified.

Here, many friends of mines confirmed that Rehman Malik asked the KHI KSE to pay Rs. 30 billion in a Dubai account or else the with-holding tax & other taxes exceeding Rs.30 billion will be imposed.The members paid Rs. 30 billion last month.

Is there any wonder why reserves are flying back or why investmnt is going back?

Inflation is high because the price of crude has risen astronomically. Inflation is a problem not only in Pakistan but has also broken the back of many other countries including India, where it has reached a 12 year high, Vietnam-15 year high and the same for China.
Yes, inflation is high worldwide due to crude. But, fiscal & monetary measures, and administrative measures are also required to control inflation. PAK is an agriculture country and does not import food items. In 2 months inflation has become 30 year high.

The value of the Pakistani rupee is down because it is directly proportional to inflation and inversely proportional the price of the crude oil which itself affects your economy directly.
Foreign reserves are kept in abundance, because in case there's an international oil shake... the currency will not devalue.

If your foreign reserves get depleted due to looting by government or mis-management....and there is an oil shake .... the currency devalues.

Dr Ishrat Hussein (former Governor State Bank PAK) says:
"Those who question us must realize that the reserves are not for spending purposes but are actually an insurance policy for the future. Let me give you a simple example: when we had reserves below $ 1 billion and if there was a oil price shock then whereby the price would have shot up from $25 a barrel to $50 a barrel, the rupee would have hit Rs. 80, 90 or even 100 to the dollar simply because we could not have sustained that kind of situation. However, today we have seen that although the oil prices have gone up to $58, the exchange rate has remained stable at around Rs. 59.50"
A conversation with Dr. Ishrat Hussain

So, save reserves to stabilize currency and control inflation.


There is ABSOLUTELY nothing, NOTHING, that this present govt or any other government could have done to prevent what is happening now after it had been handed the reins by Musharraf.
If they can do nothing ... they should be kicked out!

The least they could have done was to protect our Foreign reserves & keep it intact, and try to improve it further. If foreign reserves go down and there is an crude increase, the currency destabilizes.

A government should give time to economy & initiate fiscal and monetary polcies, interact with local business community, attract FDI, efforts to increase foreign reserves, control imports & boost exports.

Due to PPP's clue-less govt, the foreign investors are runing back. KSE lost $20 billion in 2 months. Rehman Malik blackmailing KSE is democratic negotiations?

Musharraf era, our economy:

Pak Economy in 1999 was: $ 75 billion
Pak Economy in 2007 is: $ 160 billion
Pak Economy in 2008 is: $ 170 billion

Pak revenue collection 1999: Rs. 305 billion
Pak revenue collection 2007: Rs. 708 billion

Pak Foreign reserves in 1999: $ 700 million
Pak Foreign reserves in 2007: $ 16.4 billion

Pak Exports in 1999: $ 8 billion
Pak Exports in 2007: $ 18.5 billion

KHI stock exchange 1999: $ 5 billion at 700 points
KHI stock exchange 2007: $ 75 billion at 14,000 points

Foreign Investment in 1999: $ 301 million
Foreign Investment in 2007: $ 8.4 billion

Our leader - Musharraf


Heck i could send Manmohan Singh, arguably India's best finance minister with his entire team including Chidambaram and they wouldnt be able to do much better.
India's GDP growth did NOT fall from average 8-9% even in this volatile situation you consider. India's exports did not fall. India's foreign reserves did not fall. India's FDI has not stopped. World recession momentarily hurt Indian Stock exchanges, but now its on path.

Pakistan's GDP fell from 7% to expected 5%. Pakistan's FDI decreasing. PAK's exports show no signs of increasing. PAK's foriegn reserves falling.

World recession did NOT hurt KHI Stock Exchange (only 2%) ... but this PPP government hurt KSE by approx. 20% with decrease of $20 billion.


They say a rising tide lifts all boats. The same is true for the economies. There was an increase in demand from developed countries for the past 10 years, and that is why Pakistani economy ALSO started increasing commensurately.
PAK was never a preferred destination for investment nor demend from developed countries. Bangladesh, India, Korea, China, Indonesia, Thailand, Sri-Lanka etc were more preferred.

PAK FDI and major economic indicators improved, increased due to Musharraf's credibility and macro-economic polcies, micro-finance handling and fiscal policy.

Pls read: Pakistan's Economic Success: Mercy of 9/11 or macro-economic policies.

Pakistan’s Economic success: Mercy of 9/11 or Macro-Economic Policies? « Our leader - Musharraf

Indian economy was also increasing dramatically along with China. What Pakistan did is not extraordinary but a result of a global boom.
Indian economy has been moving ahead since 20 years now. Sustainance made it surge to 9% GDP growth. There's nothing dramatic about it. Its years hard work by conglomerates like Birla, Mittal, Reliance, Sahara, Tata, InfoSys, Bajaj, Vipro, Birla, ICICI, etc.

Sure, Musharraf govt did clear and carry out reforms, but they were by and large limited.
IMF, WB praise Pakistan's economic and fiscal performance: Pakistan Times | Top Stories: IMF, WB praise Pakistan's economic and fiscal performance

PAK economic growth bolstered world confidence: WB
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

World Bank Presdient praises PAK's economic achievements
World Bank President praises Pakistan's recent economic achievements.

IMF praise PAkistan
BBC NEWS | Business | IMF praise for Pakistan

ADB praises micro-finance in PAkistan
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

If these international institutions are praissing PAK for its micro-economic, macro-economic, fiscal polciies and implementation.... the praise goes to the government that formulated and practicised it!

Also, Dr.Ishrat Hussein said,
"There are, in my view, several important factors that attribute to this impressive growth rate of the economy. One of them, of course, is that there has been a continuity and consistency in the economic policies for the last 5 years to ensure that the investors and the entrepreneurs make business decisions with confidence that these policies will not undergo major shifts. That is extremely important for any investor interested in putting his money into this country. Secondly, there is a level playing field for every investor and every businessman. There are no SROs being issued to favour one group or the other and I think this has given rise to the healthy competition among the business community and many investors. Third, we have been carrying out structural reforms such as the privatization of the financial sector and many other institutions which we had been losing money and also taking steps to bring about massive economic stability like reduction in fiscal deficit, reduction in foreign debt and reduction in losses of public sector corporations. So you can see it’s a combination of several factors that have led to an impressive growth rate."
A conversation with Dr. Ishrat Hussain



Yes, they might be thugs, but your Army has not given your populace a chance to change them, to elect them out. They have not allowed new leaders to emerge. They have incubated a culture of radicalization to suit their needs. Thus you see that the new leaders who do emerge will be radical in nature, harming your country more.
Residing inside PAK we know what & who damaged our country more. These corrupt feudals who will again run away to Dubai, Saudia, USA, UK or France. The PAK army is PAK's sole saviour.

Democracy can work ONLY in a atleast 80% literate country.
 
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fatman17

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Dear,Fatman17 sir...
Sir, you are 1000% right about all the mess which was surly created by the westrn media. but sir, there is lot more on stake right now, its again the capability of a pakistani leader who is loyal and! seems to be on the target?
its, not 80s when a pakistani president( late GEN. ZIA-UL-HAQ) can be assinated by CIA by its own ambsder mr, late ARNOLD REFALE.
its not the 70s eara ... when a elected primminster of pakistan( late Z.A. BHUTTO) could be hung on the direction or !!!the backing of CIA.


As a nation we should grow up now! & should start dismentiling the CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCYs bad influence on PAKISTAN.
what ever peoples hopes are from, our new cheif of army( GEN.KIYANI), i guss they will be dejected to understand that he isnt a person like MUSHARAF. it can be the most fatal mistake by MUSHARAF to appoint GEN.KIYANI as a new commander inchief of pakistan army, frist it was principly wrong to apoint a person who was been named by CIA through US sectry of state!

May be, GEN. KIYANI couldbe a good planner or a great thinker within the ranks of other senior OFFICERS, but this capability can prove to be his weekness when the time demands from him. till now it is his reputation, that he thinks a lot, but to make a quick and fast paced dececions long thinking always didnt bear any friuts! thus, ARMY CHIEF OF PAKISTAN should have the capabilties to say...NO.

although, it all MUSHARAFs miscalculations which all resulted in his own falldown & there is no body to blame all this mess, but still i think that he is the most EXPERINCED man to become a PAKISTANI DARE DEVIL PRESIDENT. its not only that easy to say goodbye to MUSHARAF!!! but it couldbe the time for pakistan to say goodbye to every thing.... our nukes and all its capabiites also to open a huge amount of saleable secrets ( A.Q.KHAN) and pakistani red book to USA, plz just try to image ZARDARI as a PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN!!!! & a JUMMA BAZZAR of PAKISTAN?:tsk:

I dont, see GEN.KIYANI as a wall against all those thearts, he is just a brilliant and outstanding PAK ARMY GEN! who can be made an ambsdr to UN or USA for his good services. NOTHING SPECIAL:confused::rolleyes::tsk:
why r you blaming the CIA for all our ills!
with due repect your answer is very confusing for me to understand.
 

batmannow

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Dear fatman17, sir..
i was, just trying to explore your point of view further more to the crunt situation.
at the same time , i had tried to put your attention to the hard facts, why MUSHARAF has become the victm by his own actions. today i got the news from many of our e-media channels the SAUDI ARABIAN prince already came to pakistan for talks with MUSHARAF, about his ouster from the office of presidency.

My, point was that ,its not the time for our beloved army chief to trun his back on the man, who still can change the situation in pakistan, i mean MUSHARAF. the westren media was leading the movement against the president because many of the westren countries see him a danger, who can bargain more and can be another MAHATIR
.

Now its all suddnly changing , impechment of president MUSHARAF, is becoming a worring news for these westren countries.

August 09, 2008 Saturday Sha’aban 6, 1429

By Anwar Iqbal

US worries over impact of move on terror war

Welcome to DAWN, Pakistan's most widely circulated English language newspaper





WASHINGTON, Aug 8: The United States fears that the move to impeach President Pervez Musharraf may harm the global war on terror in which Pakistan plays a pivotal role, says a report quoting US State Department officials.

On Friday the top US commander in Afghanistan publicly accused the ISI of “some complicity” over time with militant groups fomenting violence in the neighbouring country.

Another media report claimed that senior Bush administration officials were urging President George W. Bush to allow US troops to enter Pakistan’s tribal areas while pursuing Taliban and Al Qaeda militants.

The CNN report on the impact of the proposed impeachment on the war on terror contradicts a public statement by a department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos saying the move will not affect the war.

But CNN claimed discussing the issue with senior State Department officials who feared that Pakistan’s internal political turmoil, caused by the move to impeach President Musharraf, would hurt US efforts to defeat the militants hiding in the country’s tribal belt.
The CNN report also quoted US officials as saying that there were “50-50” chances of the impeachment move to succeed.
Senior State Department officials, according to CNN, believe that President Musharraf now had three options: step down, topple the government and dissolve parliament or hold fresh elections.
“And he can use any of the three options,” the report said.
At the regular briefing, spokesman Gallegos had said that the US would accept any action, either by the elected government or President Musharraf, that was in accordance with the Pakistani Constitution.
South Asia experts in Washington say that none of these three options negates the Constitution but they also have warned the Bush administration not to get involved.
“The US should stay as removed as possible from the political machinations in Pakistan while urging all sides to find a peaceful resolution to the political crisis that strengthens the democratic institutions of the country and prevents a return to military rule,” said Lisa Curtis, a South Asia expert at Washington’s Heritage Foundation.

In a report released on Friday, Ms Curtis noted that the decision to impeach President Musharraf “could help end months of political paralysis in the country and stabilize the new civilian government, which has been divided over whether Mr Musharraf should stay in power.”

She also noted that President Musharraf’s fate and the future direction of Pakistan was largely in the hands of the Chief of Army Staff General Kiyani and warned that any move to undo the current political setup “would be a highly unpopular … with the Pakistani public and would likely result in potentially violent street protests.”
Ms Curtis, however, acknowledged that despite its concerns about political instability in Pakistan, the US continued to focus on “promoting stable democracy in Afghanistan and denying the Taliban and Al Qaeda a safe haven from which to launch deadly international attacks.”
Lt-Gen David McKiernan, the US commander in Afghanistan, also focused on this subject in his interview to CNN.

“Do I believe that the Pakistani government must do more? I absolutely do. Do I believe there has been some complicity on the part of organisations such as the ISI over time in Pakistan, I believe there has been,” Gen McKiernan said.

“I don’t believe we can get to the right outcome in Afghanistan as long as these militant sanctuaries exist across the border,” McKiernan said.

“We’ve seen the increased numbers of foreign fighters in eastern and southern Afghanistan this year, and there is an expectation that the leadership in Pakistan will do something about these militant sanctuaries in their country,” he said.

Gen McKiernan said Al Qaeda was heavily involved in the insurgency.

“Al Qaeda provides financing, they help recruit fighters, they help with logistics, command and control, intelligence for the Taliban,” he said.

In a separate report, a US news agency claimed that senior US intelligence and military aides wanted President Bush to give American soldiers greater flexibility to operate against Al Qaida and Taliban fighters entering Afghanistan from Fata.

The plan could include sending US Special Forces teams, temporarily assigned to the CIA, into the tribal areas to hit high-value targets, the report said.

According to AP, this was the top agenda item at the meeting of the so-called deputies committee — usually the No. 2 officials at the departments of Defence, and State, plus the intelligence agencies and the National Security Council.
 

fatman17

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Dear fatman17, sir..
i was, just trying to explore your point of view further more to the crunt situation.

My, point was that ,its not the time for our beloved army chief to trun his back on the man, who still can change the situation in pakistan,l.
thanks batmannow - there are no easy answers to this very complex situation. as far as Gen.Kiyani goes i dont think he has abandoned the president. it is very clear that the army will not let musharraf face the humiliation of impeachment. so there will be a honorable settlement. the other point is that the image of the armed forces and particularly the army has taken a beating in the last few years due to many reasons, and a another foray into politics is not advisable at this time. the army is extended on many fronts at this juncture and opening another front will be too much to handle,
 

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