• Tuesday, March 26, 2019

Doctor's mindset

Discussion in 'World Affairs' started by abcxyz0000, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 SENIOR MEMBER

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    I wanted to suggest diseases in order to help doctors arrive at correct diagnosis. But the mindset of doctors is a problem. The behavior of doctors is as follows:

    • Doctors don’t have an open mind. Their refrain is, “We are professionals. We know better.” They forget that laymen patients can reveal something because they are the ones experiencing the symptoms.

    • I think it is because medicos aren’t trained to deal with certain situations. When they were studying medical, they weren’t instructed on what to do if they come across anything unique/strange/unfamiliar. They see everything through the prism of known diseases. The culture of out-of-the-box thinking is not there. They simply dismiss the patient by citing some universal condition. I suspect that doctors suffer from ‘frog in the well’ syndrome. Just as frogs cannot imagine a world beyond it’s well, doctors are discouraged from thinking anything outside the realm of documented diseases.

    • There are some ‘universal diseases’ which doctors use to wash their hands off patients. The symptoms of these universal diseases are present in everyone to some degree. So it is hard to argue with doctors. For instance, if anyone is unemployed and poor or suffers from cancer, obviously he would be worried and/or sad and obsessed about his problems. Would it be proper for medical professionals to declare it as anxiety or depression or OCD? The sufferer’s problem would be unemployment and poverty or cancer NOT anxiety/depression/OCD. One doctor actually uttered this line, “Looking at the TONE of your description, it seems it is anxiety/depression/OCD.”

    • Most doctors lack the patience to notice subtle things and pursue difficult concepts. They forget that many functions are apparently simple and taken for granted. But if there is a slight change in the mechanism of these functions, it paralyzes the patient. Most doctors overlook that some subtle changes damage the patient just enough to ruin his life but not enough for others (at least lay people) to notice it.

    • So stubborn are doctors about the ambit of known-documented diseases that some ignore the symptoms present in the patient and thrust the symptoms absent in the patient to ensure that patient comes within the ambit of known-documented diseases. One guy who had ‘diagnosed’ depression, anxiety, stress etc actually told me, “When are you happy? Admit that you are never happy.”

    • When you demand explanation for the symptoms not matching with diagnosed disease, doctors have endless number of excuses to brush aside the question. For example if the patient asks the doctor to check in his textbooks whether the exhibited symptoms and the symptoms of the diagnosed disease are same, the doctor replies, “Yes, in advanced stages of the disease, these symptoms appear,” although it is not true. It seems when doctors do MBBS, they are trained to churn out excuses. Some doctors even ridicule the demand for diagnosis i.e. leave alone correctness of the diagnosis, it would be big thing if they just reveal the diagnosis.

    Examples of excuses doctors churn out. It should tell about the attitude of doctors.

    1. Once when I began to complain about memory damage, pat came the doctor’s reply, “Everybody’s caliber is not the same.”
    Explanation: Memory damage can happen to Einstein-Newton as well as to a retard. Where does the question of caliber come in this?

    2. When I complain of doctors not reading the description of symptoms properly, I was actually told that it is because they don’t have time.
    Explanation: My description takes barely 15 minutes to read. If doctors can’t spare 15 minutes to know symptoms, why are they in the profession of psychiatry then? It is their duty to spend time in properly reading the description.

    3. When I suggested that mobile phone waves may be causing neurological problems, they asked one illogical question, “Why mobile waves don’t affect others?”
    Explanation: Most people may be immune to effects of mobile phone waves but few may be susceptible. Thus mobile waves may indeed be the cause albeit affecting only minority of people. Why ask this senseless question?

    4. If doctors make diagnosis of disease ‘A’ and I point out to them that actually the symptoms of disease ‘B’ match with my ordeal, their answer is: Both disease ‘A’ and disease ‘B’ are one and the same. If you have any one of them, you automatically get the other. Disease ‘A’ is the advanced stage of disease ‘B’ and vice versa.
    Explanation: You cannot win argument with doctors even if your points are valid.

    All of the above are real life anecdotes. Including the one regarding thrusting absent symptoms (mentioned elsewhere).

    • After all the hurdles are cleared and if at all the doctor understands that the disease may indeed be something undiscovered, he would be indifferent to the concerns of the patient. He would not suggest the next course of action like way to contact clinical researchers. Doctors are like, “This is some undiscovered disease. What do I care? Tell him anything and just dismiss the patient.”

    • Another grouse I have about medical fraternity is their blind support for doctors. They don’t see the merits of the case. They support other doctors just because they are doctors.

    • I also hear sermons about trusting doctors. For reader’s information, initially for a very long time I trusted doctors completely i.e. for four long years during a crucial period of life. I took doctor’s words at face value. It is doctors who should be questioned why they make patients lose faith in the system by not giving proper response and clearing valid doubts. That is how doctors force patients to surmise that their condition is some undiscovered disease. For instance, in 17 years of consultation with umpteen doctors, not once did I hear a single sentence which I can relate with. Not once did I get the feeling, “The doctor’s description is reminiscent of my ordeal.”
     
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  2. Goenitz

    Goenitz FULL MEMBER

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    first two points states it will be a good read...
     
  3. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 SENIOR MEMBER

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  4. Wounded-Monk

    Wounded-Monk FULL MEMBER

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    Hi
    1) Don’t try to impress doctors.
    2) Go to a doctor you trust. Don’t go if you don’t.
    3) Become a doctor to better understand medicine and doctors.
     
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  5. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Thanks for the feedback. The unprofessional attitude hasn't ceased to amaze me.
     
  6. Dubious

    Dubious MODERATOR

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    I think it is basically because MOST doctors are MBBS....still bechalors...it takes a lot of experience, practice and patience to understand stuff...

    And if your education background is limited to books, memorizing and churning out what you memorized in exams...then these traits are to be expected...

    I prefer [to a certain extend] American MD. They need a RESEARCH degree before being enrolled in a good Medical school....A research background enables you to be curious and think outside the box so in my opinion a research concept/ module/ semester should be mandatory...to help ingeniously trained doctors to experience the thirst of curiosity!
     
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  7. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 SENIOR MEMBER

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    No. For a description to be interesting, experience does not suffice. You should also have good articulation skills.
     
  8. Wounded-Monk

    Wounded-Monk FULL MEMBER

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    While articulation skills are important. It can not compensate for sound medical knowledge. In my experience of more than 15 yrs in medicine, I have found most of the great doctors are found in govt hospitals in country and they are very blunt people. More blunt with people who waste time. They are aware that even after decades of studies how little they know, and hence it is not wise to waste time on people who waste your time. Roughly a walking/talking person may not require their prolonged attention.
     
  9. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Doctors may be having medical knowledge but patients have the experience of symptoms. Why is it that while the patient is suffering the doctor hasn't uttered a single word in almost two decades which will convince the patient, "Yes the doctor knows what I am talking about because I can relate with the description he is giving."

    And ability to walk and talk.. Is that all? Are these faculties sufficient to be able to live?
     
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  10. Wounded-Monk

    Wounded-Monk FULL MEMBER

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    This has to do with medical training which is logical in my opinion. Medical training does not focus on symptoms but SIGNS. This is something what symptoms direct to. While this is not failure proof. But this is how it is. You will not find doctors giving prolonged attention to symptoms unless they are logical.

    I did not get second part of your question. Please elaborate....!
     
  11. paindobaba

    paindobaba FULL MEMBER

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    Very simple solution , there is a system of treatment which says ,, TREAT THE PATIENT NOT THE DISEASE,, and that system have answers to all your questions,, and it's called Homeopathy, and I can guarantee you that it's true coz I am a homeopath,, @abcxyz0000
     
  12. Dr.Saad

    Dr.Saad FULL MEMBER

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    Medicine is mostly detective work and signs and system actually help us make deferential diagnosis and test confirm one of the diagnosis. And I bet you govt. doctors have more experience of dealing with people then any profession and we have so many pt. that we can read a person easily and that’s part of the training to read a person and if we waste time on functional pt. rather give that time to a person in need
     
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  13. kris

    kris FULL MEMBER

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    What do you mean by the thing ' open mind '

    Many doctors refuse to think out of the box - the reason being that rarer the diagnosis rarely it's correct. Many doctors want to be acceptable rather than super doctors who make their patients cough up a lot more money.

    Term universal diseases is a vague terminology - acceptable for a medical layman . But people should understand why doctors do this. Because it doesn't make a difference even if you find out the cause. For example- if you have contracted a viral fever, doctors will not try to identify the viruses causing the fever most of the time depending upon your symptoms because with or without diagnosis treatment is the same.qhy to waste resources?
    Not well versed with psychiatry, but you go by a doctors advise you believe in. Because he sees you not another person sitting over another monitor or a phone

    What made you think that doctors won't notice subtle things..

    Doctors need to be stubborn man or else patients care is compromised

    See, a symptom can be caused by many things, it's difficult to point at a reason.....
     
  14. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Do all doctors think like you?
     
  15. kris

    kris FULL MEMBER

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    To some extent