• Wednesday, December 11, 2019

Do Pakistan Armed Forces Lack Dedicated Airborne/Paratrooper Division ???

Discussion in 'Pakistan Strategic Forces' started by cerberus, May 29, 2016.

  1. Hellfire

    Hellfire SENIOR MEMBER

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    Clearly you have negated HAHO and low level insertions?????

    @cerberus please add the SFF and Archers to Indian list as also Garuds and MARCOs who are also PARA Qualified if you want
     
  2. shah1398

    shah1398 SENIOR MEMBER

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    You have yourself answered the question. SSG is not just limited to Cherat but they have different dedicated units for ops U mentioned and many more. Moreover SSG was last to be called for COIN ops inside Pakistan plus with Shawal being cleared, SSG is now no more needed for long COIN ops.
    Also Pak Army is enhancing the capabilities of local police and KPK has taken the lead in this regard as witnessed during last operation in Bacha Khan University plus main aim is to make the Commandos of Police in each province so potent that they alone can take on every emerging challenge as its police who are the first to respond to any eventuality here in Pakistan.
     
  3. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    In order to have strong Para Troops division , one would need to have fleet of Transport planes
    Which should be available (not transporting goods) in Order to allow troops ability to drop via planes

    For Pakistan , I think the problem is lack of Transport platform

    We can certainly run ops for training and small operations but unless we have 50 Transport planes we can't really consider this as an element (strong element for Pakistan forces)

    • We need 40-50 Transport planes (the 17-18 planes we have are for goods transport)
    • 100-150 Helicopters
    To really say we have a "functional" Para Troop division high end
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
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  4. cerberus

    cerberus SENIOR MEMBER

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    But One Should Not Fully Depend SSG which Is a Military Unit And It Should Not Be Called Until Any National Emergency
    in Operation Inside States


    Second Part Of your Answer is Quite Objective Special Operation Group Should Gen-rated Within Law Enforcement And Local Paramilitary Units

    But Best Option is There Should Be Agency that Should be Dedicated To Dedicated CT Ops
     
  5. thrilainmanila

    thrilainmanila BANNED

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    airborn divisions are only good when you've wiped out enemy air defence, and have achieved air superiority, in the context of indo-pak pakistan will never achieve this, its better for pakistan to play defender, and if an opportunity arises take a small chunk of territory. the pak army need more mechanised IFV divisions, and SAM belt akin to what the arabs had against the israelis, and advanced heavy artillery,

    Its pointless having an airborn division, the enemy is getting the S-400 and already have a heavy SAM belt they'll have a field day against a para division/
     
  6. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    Ground troops can infiltrate and knock out the radars for S-400 OR even S-10000

    Every force has a purpose on battle field I think
     
  7. thrilainmanila

    thrilainmanila BANNED

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    you think airborne troops will be sent beyond dehli to find the S-400, just say they manage to do it, your deep in a population of 1 billion with a standanding army of 4 million they'll be swarmed before they have a chance to do any real damage. its a waste of money.
     
  8. shah1398

    shah1398 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Actually each province has their own CTDs and it was NACTA which was envisaged to take lead role of CT Ops. But till the time NACTA aint fully functional, the CTDs are on their own and frankly speaking they are doing quite good job lately.
     
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  9. guest11

    guest11 FULL MEMBER

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    Large scale paradrops are passe` and no longer feasible in a near peer confrontation. On the other hand, independent air assault brigades are need of the hour.

    As for a Pakistani airborne division, resources required to undertake a mission that requires an airborne division is far beyond the scope and means of PAF. Unless someone decides to employ civilian aircrafts in a contested airspace the meager resources of PAF will spend their time supplying land forces where ground based logistics are coming short, possibly mountainous areas.

    Last I checked, PA had LCB which can be used in slithering ops which should be more than enough and if anything PA needs a more robust rotary wing rather than the more expensive and also vulnerable fixed wing transport.

    For the people who think Pakistani paratroopers will land in Delhi to destroy S-400 like systems, all I can say is good luck.:enjoy:
     
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  10. Sage

    Sage SENIOR MEMBER

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    LCB has a long way to become like 75th Ranagers ...both in terms of combat, training, equipments and formation ...

    You certainly do have a point ...I agree with you ...we must have a dedicated para reg ...sadly ...everything just above normal is to be done by SSG ....and it's different companies ....they are no doubt good ...but being dedicated to one role is something I always favor ....!
     
  11. DESERT FIGHTER

    DESERT FIGHTER ELITE MEMBER

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    It's a newborn .. It will need time to evolve .. But it uses the same concept ... Hence our answer to the 75th.

    2013 (raised/training);

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    image.jpeg

    14;

    image.jpeg

    16 ;
    image.png

    From taking part in OPs in FATA to participating in international SF drills ... In less than 2-3 years... Right now they are being given priority...

    SSG,SSGN,SSW,SOG,SOW,LBC are all HAHO & HALO qualified and it's not their "secondary" role.


    As for CT ops .. No but they have been forced to do that job... Within the SSG .. It's the Zarrar Coy that's CT Specialist unit.

    Apart from that provinces have raised their own special CTUs... Like ATS,CTD,Panthers,SSU etc... These units are equip to your NSG etc..
     
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  12. thrilainmanila

    thrilainmanila BANNED

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    an airborn assault has never been applied in modern warfare against semi advanced armies, the countries that posses them have massive standing armies like china,usa,india,russia, they have the extra resources to raise a large air brigade in terms of indo-pak context india is basically hedging its bets that will all the pressure the pak army will face on the border they'll send there heli born troops and drop them off deep behind enemy lines, what they dont realise is that all the paramilitary guys like the fc, rangers and reserves will all be there waiting for them, they'll be swarmed
    @DESERT FIGHTER how effective are those scoped AK-56s the pak army use, they look all flashy but what does your brother say on how they work in the field? i heard the pak army wasn't happy with them which provoked them to go for a new caliber machine gun
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  13. cerberus

    cerberus SENIOR MEMBER

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    NSG Far More Trained And Better Equipped SAG Of NSG is Mostly Based on "Military Veterans "The Special Action Group (SAG) comprises 54%(4200+) of the National Security Guards. It is its offensive arm, with personnel drawn from the Indian Army. The 51 SAG is tasked with counter-terrorism operations, while the 52 SAG is trained and equipped for counter-hijack operations.

    But Its a Civilian Agency Comes Under Control Of MHA,GOI



    As For Law Enforcement Agencies Have there Own Elite Swat And SOG Units Within Raised From Their Ranks


    That Doesn't Change Its A Military Unit SSG Should Only Be called During National Emergency Unless Civilian Govt Want It Too

    Law Enforcement Agencies Should have Given Role of Countering Domestic CT OPs

    Paramilitary is Law Enforcement They Can Tackle CT Ops But Not An Professional Trained And Military Brigade

    you Need Military unit to Counter Military Units

    No offense Don't Go Off-topic
     
  14. thrilainmanila

    thrilainmanila BANNED

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    no country has never dropped off massive volumes of troops in an advanced warfare setting behind enemy lines, most of the time the heliborne troops get scattered and there cordination is limited, when you have elements of scattered soldiers in enemy territory and you have masses of Paramiltary they'll be uprooted, how the hell do you expect a few hundred men to stand up to thousands of armed men. its not a video game or a hollywood movie. airborne troops are only for show,
     
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  15. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Not airborne troops.

    SSG or SSW. Read Post 10 of this thread.

    Heliborne or AirAssault troops are inserted for speedy capture of a location (bridge, road pass, command HQ, supply/fuel/ammo dump etc) usually but not limited to it.
    They may be deployed to flank the enemy from sides or rear. They can deployed speedily to reinforce a location risking to be over run by the enemy. They can be deployed to harass and destroy a spotted enemy reinforcement and supply convoy near the border in war time.

    Coming to your point of paramilitary forces.
    During a hypothetical advance of PA forces say into kashmir, PA infantry brigades make it near a major city say, Srinagar. Now Heliborne (i will prefer Air Assault) forces can be used for following purposes.

    1. Air Assault Forces get dropped at an opposite or 90 degrees azimuth from where the main assault of PA brigades (say Delta 20) may be planned. The Air assault force (say Team-Charlie 10) can engage the enemy at that different location to confuse the enemy about the direction of main assault of Delta 20 and then Charlie-10 can withdraw to friendly lines whenever withdrawal is planned.

    2. Charlie 10 gets dropped as close to a heavily defended position inside Srinagar as possible, engaging regular and paramilitary forces till Delta 20 advances and links up with Charlie 10, ofcourse timing will be of essence.

    3. Charlie 10 gets dropped off at a main road from which reinforcement of IA can be expected or is one the way and either delays the IA forces or eliminates them (if IA forces are small in number) till Delta 20 takes over Srinagar.

    4. Charlie 10 is QRF and is supposed to be protecting exposed flanks of Delta 20 during a major assault.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
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