• Wednesday, December 11, 2019

Do Pakistan Armed Forces Lack Dedicated Airborne/Paratrooper Division ???

Discussion in 'Pakistan Strategic Forces' started by cerberus, May 29, 2016.

  1. cerberus

    cerberus SENIOR MEMBER

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    Airborne forces are military units, usually light infantry, set up to be moved by aircraft and "dropped" into battle, typically by parachute. Thus, they can be placed behind enemy lines, and have the capability to deploy almost anywhere with little warning. The formations are limited only by the number and size of their aircraft, so given enough capacity a huge force can appear "out of nowhere" in minutes, an action referred to as a vertical envelopment.


    SSG & SSW is a Primary SF of Pakistan that is Suited this Role But as its Concluded Airborne OP As a Secondary role Following the SSG course, trainees must go through the airborne training to get their commando wings Parachute Training School (PTS)


    Many Armies in the World Have dedicated Airborne Divisions
    Specially US ,PLA,France ,Russia

    China

    France
    French Foreign Legion (La Légion Etrangère) :

    French Navy (Marine Nationale):

    • Commandos Marine: Navy component of Special Operations Command (France):
      • Commando Hubert (also named Commando d'Action Sous-Marine Hubert, CASM, "underwater operations commando"): Submarine action (combat divers).
      • Commando Jaubert: Assault at sea, exfiltration, close quarters battle at sea.
      • Commando Trepel: Assault at sea, exfiltration.
      • Commando de Penfentenyo: Reconnaissance, Intelligence Operations (recon swimmers)
      • Commando de Montfort: Long range neutralisation (missile launchers, light mortars, heavy sniper rifles), fire support designation
      • Commando Kieffer: C3I, military dogs
    French Air Force (Armee de L'Air):

    National Gendarmerie (Gendarmerie Nationale):

    Directorate-General for External Security: Division Action:

    • The Centre Parachutiste d'Entraînement Spécialisé (CPES, "Paratrooper Specialised Training Centre") in Cercottes for clandestine operations
    • The Centre Parachutiste d'Instruction Spécialisée (CPIS, "Paratrooper Specialised Instruction Centre") in Perpignan for special commandos.
    • The Centre Parachutiste d'Entraînement aux Opérations Maritimes (CPEOM, "Paratrooper Training Centre for Naval Operations") in Quelern, which instructs combat divers.
    Russia

    Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD)
    Various Specnaz units

    United States


    Joint Service Units

    • Joint Communications Unit (JCU)
    • Joint Communications Support Element (JCSE)
      • Headquarters Support Squadron (HSS)
      • Communications Support Detachment (CSD)
      • 1st Joint Communications Squadron (JCS)
      • 2nd Joint Communications Squadron (JCS)
      • 3rd Joint Communications Squadron (JCS)
      • 4th Joint Communications Squadron (JCS)
      • 224th Joint Communications Support Squadron (JCSS)
      • 290th Joint Communications Support Squadron (JCSS)
    Parachute Regiment (India)

    17 battalions (9 special forces, 5 airborne, 2 Territorial Army and 1 Rashtriya Rifles

    The 8th Battalion became 16th Battalion, Mahar Regiment in 1976 before reconverting to the 12th Battalion, Mechanised Infantry Regiment. A sizable part of the battalion was retained in the airborne role for some time, forming the armoured element of the 50th (Independent) Parachute Brigade and equipped with their BMP2 Infantry Combat Vehicles. But due to administrative and logistic reasons, it was discontinued and their role being taken over by the para battalions themselves, with a platoon strength of each battalion being trained and equipped for the mechanized role within the brigade.
    Three of the Special Forces battalions were originally trained for use in certain environments; 1st Bn [strategic reserve], 9th Bn [mountain] and 10th Bn [desert] and the 21st Bn [jungle]. Currently, all Special Forces battalions are cross trained for all environments.





      • 1st Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 1st Battalion, 2nd Punjab Regiment Raised 1761, conversion to Special Forces 1978
      • 2nd Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 3rd Battalion, Maratha Light Infantry raised 1797, conversion to Special Forces 2000
      • 3rd Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 1st Battalion, Kumaon Regiment raised 1813, conversion to Special Forces 2002
      • 4th Battalion (Special Forces) raised 1961, conversion to Special Forces 2003.
      • 5th Battalion (Airborne) raised 1962
      • 6th Battalion (Airborne) raised 1963
      • 7th Battalion (Airborne) raised 1964
      • 9th Battalion (Special Forces) raised 1966 as 9th Parachute Commando Battalion.
      • 10th Battalion (Special Forces) raised in 1967 as 10th Parachute Commando battalion from 9 Para Cdo.
      • 11th Battalion (Special Forces) raised in 2011
      • 21st Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 21st Battalion, Maratha Light Infantry raised 1985, conversion to Special Forces 1996
      • 23rd Battalion ( Airborne )
      • 29th Battalion (Airborne)
      • 106th Infantry Battalion (Para) Territorial Army
      • 116th Infantry Battalion (Para) Territorial Army
      • 31st Battalion (Commando) - Rashtriya Rifles

      50th Parachute Brigade (India)
      The 50th (Independent) Parachute Brigade comprises the following units:


      • 02 Special Forces Airborne
      • 01 Special Forces
      • 01 Parachute Field Regiment (Artillery) (9 & 17 Parachute Field Regiments in rotation)
      • 60 Parachute Field Hospital
      • 411 (Independent) Parachute Field Company (Bombay Sappers)
      • 622 Parachute Composite Company (ASC)
      • 50th (Independent) Parachute Brigade OFP (Ordnance)
      • 50th (Independent) Parachute Brigade Signal Company
      • 2 (Independent) Parachute Field Workshop Company (EME)
      • 252 (Para) Air Defence Battery
      • 50th (Independent) Parachute Brigade Provost Section.





    Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paratrooper_forces


     
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  2. litman

    litman SENIOR MEMBER

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    such type of missions were possible in 65 and 71 when radar coverage was limited but today if God forbid indo-pak war breaks out then to carry out para dropping behind enemy lines in significant number will be very difficult rather suicidal.with the latest radars, SAMs and fighters with BVR capability the plane carrying para troopers will be piece of cake for the enemy. limited para dropping ,however, may be carried out.
     
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  3. Talwar e Pakistan

    Talwar e Pakistan SENIOR MEMBER

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    This isnt WW2 anymore; if your going to be fighting a professional military then paratroopers are basically obsolete.
     
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  4. DESERT FIGHTER

    DESERT FIGHTER ELITE MEMBER

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  5. Tipu7

    Tipu7 SENIOR MEMBER

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    To be Honest we DO lack Specialist Paratrooper division.
    A division armed with special light arms + Air borne vehicles + Strategic heavy lifter can be game changer during the battle.
    Paratroopering at the start of battle is bit suicidal , but during coarse of battle air drops do can operate behind enemy lines and cease the supply lines or what ever the mission is given to them.
     
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  6. cerberus

    cerberus SENIOR MEMBER

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    Do you think World Most Sophisticated Armies are Outdated to have these Division First you have to Learn Role of Air-borne Troops

    And as for Effectiveness Air-born Paratroopers Help Pakistan in WOT

    So Its is Still Most Fastest way to Deploy your Troops Behind Enemy Lines Specially for Strategic OPs

    SSG & SSGN are Mostly Take Airborne Ops as Secondary Role as they are Primary SF in Every Role Including CT OP's inside Pakistan Territory


    Which In My Understanding Should Be Given to Another Unit Like Many Forces has Dedicated SF's For CT OP's Like NSG or GSG 9 or other Dedicated CT Op's Group


    Only PAF SSW are Dedicated Airborne Troops

    Now you Posted Separate Airborne Division Do you have any Details of them & there Role
     
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  7. shah1398

    shah1398 SENIOR MEMBER

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    As a matter of fact the airborne ops capabilities of SSG are much polished than SSW. PAF SSW being relatively new in the field as compared to SSG, has quite recently mastered HAHO jumps and there is lot more ahead.
     
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  8. cerberus

    cerberus SENIOR MEMBER

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    But there are Different Battalions in SSG For Different Role which are Mainly Militaristic in Nature .Also there Lots of Load on SSG as SF alone as a Unit
    • To carry Out SOP on Foreign Soil
    • Special reconnaissance
    • Asymmetric warfare
    • ISTAR Ops & COIN
    • Domestic CT Ops inside Pakistan
    In My opinion There Should Be Creation of Dedicated Unit or Group for Domestic CT Ops & Law Enforcement Like NSG or GSG 9 in Pakistan

     
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  9. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    I think SSG is trained in paratrooping too.
     
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  10. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    World most sophisticated armies dont invade countries having up to date air superiority fighters, air defence systems and AWACS. Invading countries like Iraq and Afghanistan with Airborne troops is easy only after achieving air superiority.
    US 82nd Airborne Div moved in trucks with French motorized forces into Iraq in 1991 and the rest of it provided security to KSA Royal Family and after that protected flanks of allied armoured columns moving into Iraq and Kuwait , they were not para dropped.

    Pakistan Army has limited Air Assault ability using helicopters to insert Regular infantry, but thats just a section in one helicopter (UH-1, Puma, other bell series) since heavy helos like Chinook and sea stallions are not available, a platoon maybe in Mi-17 but that would require almost 5 -6 Mi-17 for a company level assault and roughly 25-30 Mi-17 for a battalion sized air assault.

    SSG, SSW and SSG (N) are all SF and dedicated Airborne troops.

    SSG/ SSW/ SSG (N) best role is to have 25% strength deployed behind enemy lines at all times. COIN and Domestic Ops should be dealt with other special forces of para military and police under interior Ministry.

    Basic Commando forces like SSG need to operate BEL and can have 6-man teams inserted in enemy territory disguised and living as civilians with support and direction from ISI contact for recon and spec ops. They need to be qualified oral, reading, writing in foriegn language of that country, which could be hindi or afghani etc
    1 X team leader
    1 X 2IC
    2 X Medic
    2 X Regular Commandos
    All qualified in sniper, demolitions, CQB, communications and EW courses. This way they can be split into two 3-man teams also retaining all capabilities of leadership and medical support.

    Staying on a 1 month or 3 month or 6 month tenure in enemy country as long as it takes a specific mission to complete, they can acquire weapons and other military supplies from resistance groups, smugglers or other contacts made by ISI. They can live under duplicate alias and ID's, working minor jobs in day time or as students. The ISI contact keeps giving them monetary support and communication with HQ while they give ISI feedback on the mission stats.

    Similarly, SSW teams on same lines can go after enemy Air Force targets while SSG (N) teams can go after enemy naval targets.

    Once the mission is complete, the team needs to head back towards the border for extraction which could be through land, air or sea otherwise cross the border at some specific point etc.

    Unfortunately, SSG is Pakistan's forefront AT force, while its a much more capable force but its sent to do jobs that are deemed impossible for other forces.
     
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  11. sankar

    sankar FULL MEMBER

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    NO it is quite possible today. Especially today. You remember Abottobad - Osama bin laden ?? especially in your country done by us.
     
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  12. BRAVO_

    BRAVO_ FULL MEMBER

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    Pakistan has different dynamics than other countries, we are facing the domestic insurgencies and terrorism threats from very organized forces backed by some world renowned agencies, and military is already undergoing through operation zarb e azab .. Pakistan successfully used paratroopers in this operation, even in 2009 paratroopers were used in operation Rah e Nijat. this is a very good and effect way to stop regrouping the the retreated forces.

    Pakistan has already a well organized parachute training institute in Peshawar for many decades, i am not sure how much is our current strength of paratroopers, but it would be a good idea to have a substantial force of paratroopers
     
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  13. cerberus

    cerberus SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes Only at Basic Training
    There only 1 or 2 Battalions that are Dedicated to this Role which Quite Less

    The Main Training School of PA is Parachute Training School (PTS)
    https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=280

    It conducts five parachuting courses:

    • Basic Airborne Course
    • Jumpmaster and Airborne Operation Course
    • High Altitude and Low Opening Course
    • Pathfinder Course
    • Parachute Packing and Maintenance Course
    Depend Upon the Course you want to Pursue Most of the SSG Troops are Opt For basic Airborne course
    Only Few Volunteers are Opt For More Regress Courses

    War is Much Versatile Area And Airborne Brigades are Fastest Way to Deploy Troops in War Zones
     
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  14. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    I don't know much details about but I remember one brave officer brigadier Tariq who was martyred in a demonstration due to some issue with his parachute.
    But I guess Paksitan has paratroopers and the enemy may be up for a surprise but i agree it is a an important part and a fast way to deploy troops.
     
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  15. litman

    litman SENIOR MEMBER

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    only a fool can compare such incident with india pak war. none on these two countries have stealth technology and the difference in the conventional weapons is not that great as compare to USA and pak. a couple of helicopters using the terrain like in kashmir area may get inside the enemy territory undetected by a Normandy like operation in not possible
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016