• Monday, March 30, 2020

Discussions on Potential Syria Safe Zone

Discussion in 'Turkish Defence Forum' started by Hakan, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. Hakan

    Hakan RETIRED MOD

    Messages:
    6,287
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Ratings:
    +40 / 13,335 / -2
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Canada
    Turkey mulls buffer zone along Iraq, Syria border

    U47P5029T2D514659F24DT20121010134818.jpg

    Turkey's military is mulling the prospect of establishing a buffer zone along its border with Syria and Iraq amid an escalating threat posed by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) extremists, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan was quoted as saying on Sept. 16.

    "The Turkish Armed Forces [TSK] are working on plans and will present them to us and we will decide if it is necessary," Erdoğan was quoted as saying when asked about the possibility of a buffer zone being established.

    Turkey, a NATO member and Washington's key ally in the region, has been reluctant to take part in combat operations against ISIL militants, or allow a U.S.-led coalition to use its airbases for strikes against the jihadists because the extremists are holding dozens of Turkish nationals hostage, including diplomats and children.

    ISIL militants are holding 49 Turks in all, abducted from the Turkish consulate in Mosul in Iraq in June.

    Last week, a senior Turkish official told AFP: "Our hands and arms are tied because of the hostages," adding that Turkey's role in the anti-ISIL coalition would be confined to humanitarian assistance.

    Erdoğan said Turkey wanted to solve the hostage crisis through "contacts."

    "Our intelligence units have been working for three months on this. We will provide humanitarian support [in the coalition against ISIL]," he said.


    Turkey mulls buffer zone along Iraq, Syria border - DIPLOMACY
     
  2. Raphael

    Raphael SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,105
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Ratings:
    +10 / 8,762 / -6
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    Why does Turkey need a buffer against Iraq? Iraqi Kurdistan is already a buffer.
     
  3. -SINAN-

    -SINAN- ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    16,147
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 275 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    Most true; We need a buffer zone in Syria only.

    90b5cff8bb3d3c994a508b5fa5e9feba.png
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2014
  4. Hakan

    Hakan RETIRED MOD

    Messages:
    6,287
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Ratings:
    +40 / 13,335 / -2
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Canada
  5. -SINAN-

    -SINAN- ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    16,147
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 275 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    Mate, can't figure out from very vague words.

    Erdoğan said; ""Bu işin teknik boyutu Silahlı Kuvvetler'de. Onlarla görüşmeler sürüyor. Buna gerek var mı yok mu varsa nerelerde derinlik belirleyip önümüze getirecekler ve biz de uygundur ya da değildir diyeceğiz."

    So, Armed Forces are working about planning. Government will give go or not.

    If it is a go; "Askeri kaynaklar, tampon bölgenin sadece Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri tarafından oluşturulmayacağını vurguladı.
    Buna göre, tampon bölge oluşumunda Amerika liderliğindeki koalisyon güçleri yer alacak, bütçesi de koalisyonca karşılanacak. "

    So, this part is not confirmed yet but it says coalition forces will take part in establishing the buffer zone. Also coalition forces will burden the budget.

    I think it is still very vague if TAF will take part but when we look at Erdoğan saying "We will decide"... it is possible to say TAF will take a part.

    On more thinking.... how are we going to establish the buffer zone while ISIS has Turkish hostages ?
     
  6. Neptune

    Neptune SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,660
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Ratings:
    +52 / 11,661 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    I think he had some agreements with Obama in Wales. Note that Chuck Hagel and Rick Kerry came to Turkey right after before than ME countries.

    My only guess is that US is working on the Turkish hostages. Once they free them we will join up. Sounds like US and Turkey have given some mutual promises to each other but we'll see soon I believe.
     
  7. Hakan

    Hakan RETIRED MOD

    Messages:
    6,287
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Ratings:
    +40 / 13,335 / -2
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Canada
    I wonder how a buffer zone would look. How deep would it go? 5km, 15km? Would it go along the whole border or are there only going to be small pockets that go into syria that would serve as refugee camps?

    There are a lot of towns on the border with Turkey so that would take a significant amount of man power to control not to mention that if you create a buffer zone that takes over the whole border area you would be in conflict with assad, isis, and pyd at the same time.
     
  8. Neptune

    Neptune SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,660
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Ratings:
    +52 / 11,661 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey

    A typical buffer zone would start with the declaration of no-fly zone over around 90 kilometers inside the target border depending on the scale of the operation.

    A full scale air campaign starts with SEAD. Then ground troops advance behind armored battalions with CAS support. I think it would be between 20 to 60 kilometers inside the target border. depending on what the TAF's parameters are. Assad and little of PYD would be easy job hence they need conventional doctrines. the IS would be the pain in the as.s as they're at Assymmetric Warfare and they know well how to use it. That's where our 40 years of counter-insurgery experience would help.
     
  9. -SINAN-

    -SINAN- ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    16,147
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 275 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    I'm saying this, we shouldn't get involved in the operation.

    First regarding a possible hostage rescue operation.....i see it as impossible. We can debate about operional methods.

    Secondly, Western countries said numerous times "No boots on the ground", which makes if we involve in the operations our soldiers will face ISIS threat.....
     
  10. Neptune

    Neptune SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,660
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Ratings:
    +52 / 11,661 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    I agree mate but..for current circumstances only. Otherwise I think we should have done that 2 years ago.
     
  11. -SINAN-

    -SINAN- ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    16,147
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 275 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    We shouldn't have supported Syrian rebels and interfered at another country's internal affairs at the first place.
     
  12. Hakan

    Hakan RETIRED MOD

    Messages:
    6,287
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Ratings:
    +40 / 13,335 / -2
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Canada
    UN TO DISCUSS TURKEY'S BUFFER ZONE REQUEST


    607e16622ab3ace711b046015e79707a.jpg
    ANKARA — Turkey's demand to impose a buffer zone over some parts of Syria and Iraq to prevent the four-year humanitarian crisis in Syria from spilling over and confront the ISIS threat is expected to be discussed at the 69th session of the U.N. General Assembly. According to diplomatic sources the U.N. Security Council (UNSC) is likely to take on the decision.

    Turkey, which neighbors Syria and Iraq, shares more than a 1,000-kilometer- long border with the two countries and is hosting more than 1.3 million Syrian refugees, has been called on several times by the U.S. and other members of the UNSC to enforce a buffer zone over Syria. However, Turkey's buffer zone demand has been ignored even after Damascus's use of chemical weapons on civilians last May. Debate on setting up a buffer zone over Turkey's southern border came back to the agenda after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's recent statement on Tuesday that Turkey's military is studying the prospect of establishing a buffer zone along its borders with Syria and Iraq amid the escalating threat posed by ISIS. Erdoğan also added that the government will evaluate the plans and decide whether such a move is necessary. Although Erdoğan gave no detail about the general staff 's efforts on the subject, several media outlets reported on Wednesday that a no-flight zone decision can be imposed after the U.N. General Assembly meeting that will be held next week. Turkish media outlets also claimed that the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) are working on a buffer zone that aims to confront possible waves of migration that could result after U.S.-led coalition airstrikes on ISIS positions. An early draft from the TSK underlines the importance of control of airspace in the possible buffer zone and that the tomb of Suleiman Shah, which is accepted internationally as a Turkish enclave, could be included in the buffer zone.

    Regarding this claim, sources from the presidency declined to comment that the tomb of Suleiman Shah will be included the buffer zone or not, however, sources said that U.S. and Turkish officials have reached a mutual understanding on Turkey's demand to impose a buffer zone and Turkish officials expect that the UNSC is likely to make this decision.

    In addition, Erdoğan is set to address the U.N. General Assembly next Wednesday for the first time as president. Regional issues including the buffer zone over Syria and Iraq are expected to be discussed during his meetings with world leaders.

    Meanwhile, the UNSC will assemble this Friday and evaluate the U.S.' plan for fighting ISIS with the U.S.-led anti-ISIS coalition expected to be discussed. State Department Deputy Spokeswoman Marie Harf told the press, "The Council session this Friday will also provide a platform for the international community to underscore its support for Iraq's new government as it responds to the threats from ISIS and the humanitarian situation."

    UN to discuss Turkey's buffer zone request | Politics | Daily Sabah
     
  13. usernameless

    usernameless SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,547
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Ratings:
    +4 / 4,872 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Japan
    This should have been done earlier. That way the govt also could have been able to relocate the refugees there instead of bringing them to Turkish soil with the accompanying consequences.
     
  14. Hakan

    Hakan RETIRED MOD

    Messages:
    6,287
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Ratings:
    +40 / 13,335 / -2
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Canada
    'Turkey cannot impose buffer zone alone, needs int’l backing'

    8f9d253bf5d142a9a4d02962b85091c7.jpg

    Turkey cannot impose a buffer zone along the Syrian border without a U.N. Security Council decision, ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) Deputy Chair Beşir Atalay said on Sept. 19.

    Atalay also told journalists that a buffer zone alone would not be sufficient, stressing that a "no-fly zone" was required for the area to become a truly safe haven.

    He recalled that Turkey has been asking for a buffer zone along the Turkish-Syrian border since the crisis erupted in the neighboring country.

    “[At the beginning of the civil war] we extensively discussed the idea of buffer zone. We held security meetings and decided it would be best to keep the refugees on the Syrian side of the border and provide for them there,” Atalay said, adding that the Foreign Ministry applied to the U.N. for a buffer zone decision but the initiative failed.

    Turkey would have set up refugee camps within the safe zone inside Syria if the U.N. had issued the decision, he said.

    If Turkey’s plans for a safe zone along the Syrian border fail, it will have to continue receiving Syrian refugees, Atalay added.

    The AKP deputy chair also said an upcoming government motion to renew a mandate to send troops to northern Iraq, and another motion authorizing cross-border military operations in Syria, will be discussed in Parliament on Oct. 7 and Oct. 17. No decision has yet been made on combining the two motions, he stressed.

    'Turkey cannot impose buffer zone alone, needs int’l backing' - POLITICS

    Question is directed towards PM Davutoglu

    There is talk about an operational preparation at the border that is capable of providing aid. Is it possible to associate this with the buffer zone? Also, will there be any developments about the no-fly zone?


    Aid at the border is not new. There has to be a buffer zone for this. We have aided hundreds of thousands at the Syrian border and we were able to keep the numbers at a certain level for a while. If the same situation arises in Kobani, in places where Kurds live, instructions have been given to the governors of our border provinces. All kinds of work will be prepared for humanitarian aid. If a very serious security problem occurs and they arrive here having fled, seeking shelter, then the situation is different indeed. Right now seven villages are affected. In the event that those seven villages come to the border for a safer zone, we will provide aid to meet their needs.

    We have helped the Yezidis too. We first met them across the border, but right now there are more than 35,000 Yezidis inside. Even though some people claim that there is no aid delivered to the Yezidis, right now more than 35,000 Yezidis are hosted in Turkey. Everyone should see what kind of an effort is exerted on the Syrian and Iraqi borders. On one side you take security measures, on the other hand you also have to help these people. Actually, this also shows where the capacity of the state has reached. Was it possible to do the same in the 1990s?

    Barzani once told us, “While I was talking to my father, there was an incident when I felt hopeless…” It was the 1960s and Cevdet Sunay was the Turkish president. At that time, the Iraqi regime was oppressing the Kurds. The Kurds asked for help, writing to many countries, including Turkey. Some countries said “Yes,” some countries responded by saying they would do whatever they could. From Ankara, the letter was returned without even being opened. But this was the old Turkey. In the ‘New Turkey,’ let alone not answering the letter, we are here with all our presence. In the past, there was both reluctance and rejection. Now, there is no reluctance left, there is power and capacity to help. Late President Özal would have also wanted to help as much as he could, but the capacity of the country was not enough at that time.

    We will provide aid at the border. Buffer zone and no-fly zone are subjects that we have been bringing up anyway. We brought up the buffer zone for humanitarian reasons. In other words, it is not a military buffer zone. There should be such a place where people can take shelter under the assurances of the U.N., while those people will also not generate pressure across our borders. They will not have lost hope about the future of Syria. Domestic migration, displacement inside a country, can always be retrieved, but external migration causes incurable wounds.

    So for this reason we are constantly saying “safe zone.” If this had already happened, then 1.5 million Syrians would have been staying along our border. We would still be delivering the same aid, but the Syrians would not have the impression of “We are living in another country.” Now, the same thing goes for the Kurds. It is important that they are protected on their own land when they flee due to ISIL pressure. The demand for a buffer zone is in favor of Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens, everybody living in this region. It is a humanitarian thing.

    The no-fly zone is a strategic and humanitarian demand. Why? If there had been a no-fly zone declared in Syria when we asked for it, then ISIL would not have been able to spread to such a wide area. You may ask whether ISIL has planes. No it doesn’t. But when the regime bombarded the opposition, it had to retreat to places safe from air attacks, and ISIL entered these vacated places. So a tactical coalition was formed between ISIL and the regime. This is how ISIL grew.

    If there was a “no-fly zone” and no air operations, then the Free Syrian Army could have advanced more easily, protected itself and maybe a new administration could have been possible.
    But the no-fly zone was opposed on grounds that it would constitute a reason for war, that it would escalate the war. But the lack of a no-fly zone has created the situation we have today. We have made the necessary warnings at every stage of this.

    Now, behind the criticism in the U.S. media against Turkey lies this feeling of guilt.

    Before, a safe zone was more necessary for the Sunni Arabs and Turkmens. Today, it is necessary for the Kurds too. Maybe tomorrow it will be necessary for the Nusayris.

    Until now, it was perceived in this way. When Turkey sat down to talk to the West, it was as if it was a side that had to explain something. When we sit down next time, the first thing we will say is, “We warned you.” We told them about Iraq and Syria. Some people are trying to put us into a guilt psychology, but on the contrary we will say, “We told you about all of this.” If the Free Syrian Army had been supported strongly and a if a no-fly zone had been declared, most of these things would not have occurred.

    Lack of no-fly zone in Syria aided ISIL, Turkish PM says - POLITICS
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  15. Hakan

    Hakan RETIRED MOD

    Messages:
    6,287
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Ratings:
    +40 / 13,335 / -2
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Canada
    Turkey plans safe haven in areas controlled by Free Syrian Army and Islamic Front

    dff061f8cbd94c1b5d90ae1eca67fb6f.jpg

    Turkey is drawing up plans for a safe haven on the border in Syria that will secure regions controlled by the Free Syrian Army and the Islamic Front, possibly manned only by Turkish troops, according to security sources.

    Ankara would prefer any safe haven to be established by U.S.–led coalition forces, but the Turkish Armed Forces is preparing to establish a safe haven even unaccompanied by foreign troops, sources said.

    The safe haven will not include any region in northern Syria that is under the control of the Democratic Union Party (PYD) or the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL), so the Turkish forces will not come into contact with those groups, they added.

    Turkey is willing to declare a safe haven in Syria in order to contain the mass influx of Syrians into Turkish territory before they cross into the border. Ankara also plans to transfer Syrian refugees that are currently taking shelter in Turkish territory to new camps in the intended safe haven in northern Syria.

    Meanwhile, the Turkish government is set to ask Parliament for authorization to allow foreign soldiers to use its bases for cross-border incursions against Islamic State militants, and to send Turkish troops into Syria and Iraq

    Turkey plans safe haven in areas controlled by Free Syrian Army and Islamic Front - POLITICS

    Map shows who controls what in Syria:
    Template:Syrian Civil War detailed map - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014