• Thursday, July 16, 2020

Dedicated Submarine Platform for EW Upon Enemy Fleet

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by Ahmet Pasha, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Ahmet Pasha

    Ahmet Pasha SENIOR MEMBER

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    How feasible is it to use small or maybe medium sized subs for dedicated EW/ELINT/SIGINT purposes by itself or part of a submarine wolf pack??
    @Rashid Mahmood @Bilal Khan (Quwa) et al.
     
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  2. Ahmet Pasha

    Ahmet Pasha SENIOR MEMBER

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    Is it something others have already done or is it something that my pioneering brain has come up with? :D
     
  3. Bilal Khan (Quwa)

    Bilal Khan (Quwa) SENIOR MEMBER

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    It'd depend on how you define 'small.' If you're thinking about a miniature SSK with a hull length of 20-30 m, then no, it wouldn't be feasible. Even if Pakistan can design its own submarine, there are a lot of high fixed costs due to the need to import steel and propulsion, to say the least. The PN would rather put those resources towards a SWAT submarine to defend coastal waters than special mission applications.

    However, if you're looking at a AUV-sized vessel of a hull length of 3-5 m, then yes I think it might be worth pursuing. But bear in mind you'll have challenges with power, cooling, propulsion, etc at that level as well. It's still worth studying though, for sure.
     
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  4. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    I would like to imagine Submarines use Sonar o_O
    I don't think Radar would work under water

    But I could be wrong what do I know
     
  5. Ahmet Pasha

    Ahmet Pasha SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yeah dude I know EW is electronic warfare which essentially is jamming or fooling enemy's electronic systems. So no radar under water. Wasn't even talking about radar.
    Since 27 Feb I have been enamored with Idea of special mission platforms possibility for Land and Sea i.e Army, Navy, Marines etc.

    Would it be possible to fit all the equipment needed on a 3-5m hull?
     
  6. Bilal Khan (Quwa)

    Bilal Khan (Quwa) SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think so. The industry figured out how to house EW/ECM/ELINT equipment into pods by the 1980s, and by the 2010s, into small drones/cruise missiles (e.g. MALD-J).

    If these smaller applications (2-4 m) can handle it, then a slightly longer (3-5 m) ... and chunkier (width of 1+ m and height of 1+ m) with less weight restrictions is probably doable.

    They can activate EW/ECM while surfaced. If they're small, they're not as easy to find and stop. You can also try attaching the radio arrays to a periscope as well.
     
  7. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    :pop: I would never surface it is dangerous out in the open
     
  8. Bilal Khan (Quwa)

    Bilal Khan (Quwa) SENIOR MEMBER

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    In a pond, sure. Not easy finding stuff in the open seas, especially if it's 2-5 m big and able to move with minimal acoustic signature.
     
  9. Rashid Mahmood

    Rashid Mahmood MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    Wolf pack was a term used for the German U-boats in WW2, where they attacked merchant shipping in groups just like wolves, but at that time ASW was limited to DCs.

    In present times sub ops have changed and Subs are not operated in groups.

    Submarines are platforms which cannot be dedicated only for ELINT purposes.
    They are offensive platforms deployed in areas for offensives.

    However, they are used for ELINT gathering in peace time as a secondary role.
     
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  10. PAR 5

    PAR 5 FULL MEMBER

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    EW, ELINT, COMINT are not Submarines Primary purpose or role in a Naval environment. Advanced Subs with NATO and Russia are already equipped with secondary EW equipment such as Towed Arrays that can pick up communications from thousands of kilometres away when deployed. Its not practical to have a 'dedicated' sub when your normal subs do this job day in and out
     
  11. Saleem R Chandna

    Saleem R Chandna FULL MEMBER

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    SOME DEFENCE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS LIKE SAAB ( SWEDEN ) & ELBIT ( ISRAEL ) AMONG OTHERS ARE MAKING SPECIALIZED SYSTEMS FOR USE IN SUBMARINES AND SURFACE VESSELS FOR THIS EW, ELINT & SIGINT DUTY. SEE LINKS BELOW:

    https://saab.com/globalassets/comme...ems/ume-200/ume100---ume200-product-sheet.pdf

    https://elbitsystems.com/media/Underwater-SIGINT-D_13-8.10.18.pdf

    FOR COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE WHOLE WORLD MILITARY, THE FOLLOWING WIKIPEDIA DOCUMENT MAKES INTERESTING READING SPECIALLY THE SECTION REGARDING USING SUBMARINES FOR THIS ADDITIONAL DUTY. THIS BY THE WAY DETAILS ALL TYPES OR LAND, AIR AND SEA ACTIVITIES.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signa..._by_nation#United_States:_submarine_platforms

    SOME FURTHER LINKS OF SUCH EQUIPMENT MAKERS

    FROM SPAIN

    https://www.indracompany.com/sites/default/files/indra_naval_suite_for_submarines_eng_v01_baja_3.pdf

    FROM OUR NEIGHBOR AS WELL

    http://www.bel-india.in/Products.aspx?MId=13&LId=1&link=65

    A MOST INTERESTING READING ON THE SPECIALIZED SUBJECT OF SPY SUBMARINES......

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...l-warfare-will-have-a-lot-more-spy-submarines