• Saturday, January 18, 2020

Dear Chinese and Turkish members

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by SouI, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. SouI

    SouI FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,831
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,512 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    @Sinan out Well 'our kin' is human civilization, or more percisely 'homosaphiens'. Hell you can even callour kin 'intelligent beings in the universe'.

    I think it is discrimination that you take one's side over another just because you feel closer to that one side.

    That said I dont support what the Chinese government is doing to that group of people. But I also know that they wouldnt do it just for fun so.. There must be reasons for it.

    Either way it is not our business. It is their country and their rules.

    Inherently speaking there is and has never been justice neither on this planet nor anywhere else in this universe, ever. And as such expecting justice (which is a subjective matter in itself, not objective) is nothing but an irrational behaviour.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  2. SouI

    SouI FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,831
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,512 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    @Dubious Sorry I was off when you created that thread!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. long_

    long_ SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,353
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Ratings:
    +0 / 13,783 / -0
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Genesis

    Genesis SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,587
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Ratings:
    +26 / 7,418 / -2
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    I saw those threads a few days ago, I thought about responding, but decided against it. No point in doing so. I won't change anyone's mind and what would I even change it to even if I could.


    This is interesting, may I ask, personally, what do you want for the Uyghur people? Nothing abstract like autonomy, but concrete, like economic advancement, political involvement, access to better health care, things concrete. It can also be freedom of worship and of religious practices, things like that.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. Dungeness

    Dungeness SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,007
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Ratings:
    +3 / 16,978 / -2
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks for the rational voice. Chinese government is trying to find a way to address the Root Cause of Xinjiang minority issues, while under the strict scrutiny of the western countries. They have to choose between two evils, either preventative action, such as forced education, or punitive action, such as killing.

    This is a new way of dealing with separatism problems that many countries are facing, and personally, I think it's better than labeling all separatists as terrorists to justify killing.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  6. SBUS-CXK

    SBUS-CXK SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,010
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Ratings:
    +0 / 7,093 / -12
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    Distinguished Turkish Members. We respect your country. So the Chinese government has not interfered in Turkey's internal affairs. Similarly, I want Turkey to understand its capabilities. Your work is beyond your competence. and Turkey should find its position in the world.

    Pan-Turkism is unrealistic. A weak and low-powered country like Turkey, Humility and prudence should be maintained.

    you Turkey and China are not in the same position.:-)

    @SouI @Sinan out
     
  7. Place Of Space

    Place Of Space SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,314
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Ratings:
    +1 / 5,525 / -9
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    Our country, our rules, yes, but this has nothing to do with our anti-terrorism strategy.

    I think @beijingwalker has posted huge amount of content about ordinary Uighur's daily life, they have all careers in China, such as teacher, worker, sport star, singer, actress, policemen, officers, reporter, bizmen...

    If you always truss up the actions against terrorists, separatism with all Uighurs' life, you can only make yourself depressed. The action will not be paused until the terrorism and separatism is completely put down.

    And don't forget Chinese govt put huge money for supressing terrorism and separatism, the money is related to every Chinese taxpayer. The money could be invested in other meaningful things if there was not such bullsht mess.
     
  8. dBSPL

    dBSPL FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,711
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Ratings:
    +10 / 4,497 / -0
    Country:
    Albania
    Location:
    Turkey

    The vast majority of Turks defend China's territorial integrity. We openly support territorial integrity not only for China, but also for all countries that have similar problems. Because we have been fighting against the most unprincipled and inferiority terrorist organization for 40 years. As we know the supporters and suppoter's methods of this terrorist organization in the international arena, we can also understand the situation of the countries that about falling to similar trap.

    In fact, we support China's multi-polar solution initiative in the global politics. Also we will support it as long as it can offer a solution to US imperialism if with a fair policy.

    We are well aware that China is a country trying to be surrounded by the United States. So unprincipled US policies can even make Uighur Turks, if necessary, in their own interests. Our only problem about Uighur Turks is not from China. Another source of sorrow is the use of this issue by the United States as a political instrument.

    However, you may accept that in the past we have been subjected to genocides and massacres in many countries such as Crete, Caucasus, Central Asia, Crimea, Cyprus, Bosnia, Azerbaijan and so on. And even in our own homeland, French and Russian-backed terrorist organizations ( Tashnak, Hinchak etc ) murdered hundreds of thousands of people in Anatolia when our former state was in the process of collapse. These traumas are factors that increase national sensitivity.

    Everyone is aware of this sociological background. I dont not know how Chinese aware but there is a serious perception engineering work in that sense in Turkey. Breaking this perception depends on the Chinese state and its officials.
     
  9. SouI

    SouI FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,831
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,512 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    Well you asked it personally, and I can only speak for myself so..

    As a capitalist I am for as much liberalization as possible in as many sectors as possible. I think every country should do it like this.

    So I for one dont believe in the concept of 'our people live here, have always lived here, and as such this piece of land/territory belongs to us!!'.

    I believe land belongs to whoever holds
    its ownership paper, acquiered through free-market forces. So in my eyes that territory never even 'belonged' to Uighers in the first place.

    Territories' owners change over time as new owners buy those territories. No one is entitled to claim any land for themselves if they dont really own it in its legislative way.

    And about the 'freedoms'.. Again as a capitalist I think there is only one freedom and that is the freedom to use your own private property however you want.

    That includes the abilities like being able to release newspapers in whatever content you want if you own the newspaper, even if its contents were full lies and fake news.

    But expecting such freedoms from China would be too much I guess lol, I mean even here in Turkey we dont have such freedoms.

    And that is also why I am calling my government a socialist/communist entity, but this is a different topic.


    As to my expectations of Chinese gov to do.. I have none. Your country, your rules. Every country is different and I am mature enough to know that no country in the world will bend down to my personal opinions just because I want them so badly.

    No country in the world will change just because we discuss them here in these forums. So yeah we just should not expect 'justice' in our way in any place out there.

    It is irrational and waste of time.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Genesis

    Genesis SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,587
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Ratings:
    +26 / 7,418 / -2
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    Not what I asked. We can't really debate actual policies because we can't affect policies here. So any discussions on that is pretty much useless.

    What I was asking was what would you like to see in Xinjiang? China is largely atheist and more so Mandarin speaking. We are also one of the better educated countries in the world with a wealth of talent graduating from thousands of institutions.

    Xinjiang is different, it's still backwards, they don't speak the language, and they have beliefs and customs different from us. Not just Han Chinese but the other ethnicity too.

    You mentioned that you are a capitalist, if that is what you value the most then what Xinjiang is going through is something that will make a dent. You can't become part of the economic system if you can't speak the language. You can't fix the backwards thinking without breaking their traditions. Turns out China actually has quite a bit of experience with that. Han Chinese is not as well defined as one might think.

    Don't think this is just the Uhygurs too. Han Chinese that didn't get an education during the initial phase of the reforms back in the 80s are now almost completely phased out. This numbers in the millions. As China became more developed, education is now a requirement, they too had to ditch their regional dialect for Mandarin Chinese.(a lot of them are not close, it's like learning German while knowing English)

    It might be cruel to force change, but if you don't go with the flow you get left in the cold. Now they can stay like that, but then they would be left out in the cold forever.

    As a positive note, there are a ton of examples of it working, from the political realm to the business and even academic(in terms of traditional language, history and art). In art it is most telling, traditionally, minority get minority roles, but recently Uhygur actresses are getting Han Chinese roles. You can look at that for what you will, but at 10 million US dollars a series, it's not too bad, if money is what you are after.

    It's not going to occur naturally. Being at the bottom of the barrel for so long, we are kind of an expert on what it takes. You need to take these people kicking and screaming to the promise land and they may still step on a mine on the way there. If economics is what you are after, this is it.

    Lastly, it's not a terror issue, China can handle that easily, there's no support for that terror in China, they can't succeed. They also have no education, unlike some other terrorists, which makes them essentially crazy guy with knife. Not threatening to stability in the least. However China wants Xinjiang to be a part of China. You can call that cultural genocide or anything you want. However the alternative is for all to see, and we will see what happens in 20 years.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. lonelyman

    lonelyman BANNED

    Messages:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Ratings:
    +0 / 3,241 / -11
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    You are a very reasonable person, it’s good to sit and talk. Chinese government better invite people like you to xinjiang and address your concerns.

    But some people hell bent believe 100% western media says, and point fingers arrogantly only cause hate and resentments.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019