What's new

DDG(X) Destroyer Could Cost Up to $3.4B a Hull, SSN(X) Attack Boat Up to $7.2B, Says CBO Report

MH.Yang

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 21, 2021
5,780
2
10,407
Country
China
Location
China

DDG(X) Destroyer Could Cost Up to $3.4B a Hull, SSN(X) Attack Boat Up to $7.2B, Says CBO Report​


The Navy’s next-generation guided-missile destroyer could cost up to $3.4 billion a ship, while its next-generation SSN(X) attack boat could cost up to $7.2 billion – figures that are billions over the service’s own estimates, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s annual analysis of the Navy’s long-range shipbuilding plan.

The procurement of both SSN(X) and DDG(X) comes as the Navy faces several years of flat budgets heading into the into the 2030s and as several major procurement programs compete for money within the service and with the priorities of the Office of Secretary of Defense. OSD took a more active role in crafting the Navy’s congressionally mandated Fiscal Year 2023 shipbuilding plan.

Instead of providing a single 30-year outlook for the Navy’s shipbuilding plan, the service instead issued three separate plans for FY 2023.

The Navy crafted a low-end and high-end plan based on two separate funding profiles – Alternative 1 and Alternative 3. The Pentagon’s office of Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation crafted a third profile – Alternative 2 – that emphasized building attack submarines and the Columbia-class nuclear ballistic missile submarine, several congressional and defense officials told USNI News.

In all the estimates, CBO found that the Navy underestimated the cost of its shipbuilding plans by $4 to $5 billion annually over the 30-year life of the proposals.

“The Navy’s cost estimates are, $689 billion for Alternative 1, $696 billion for Alternative 2, and $763 billion for Alternative 3 (or, over 30 years, an average of $23.0 billion, $23.2 billion, and $25.4 billion per year, respectively),” reads the report.
“CBO estimates that buying only the new ships specified in the Navy’s 2023 plan would cost $795 billion under Alternative 1, $834 billion under Alternative 2, and $881 billion under Alternative 3 (or, over 30 years, an average of $26.5 billion, $27.8 billion, and $29.4 billion per year, respectively—all in 2022 dollars).”

Screenshot-2022-11-10-at-5.57.17-PM.png


Part of the price difference is based on the Navy’s planned cost of the new destroyer and attack boat programs – which CBO estimates is too low.

According to the analysis, the DDG(X) program could cost from $3.1 to $3.4 billion based on increasing the size from the existing Arleigh Burke-class Flight III (DDG-51) guided-missile destroyers.

“The new DDG(X)’s combat capabilities would be equivalent or superior to those of the DDG-51 Flight III; it would also have a larger hull, substantially more power, more stealth characteristics, and a greater capacity to accommodate the installation of new weapon systems and other capabilities in the future,” reads the report.

“The Navy has indicated that the initial design prescribes a displacement of 13,500 tons. If that is the case, then the Navy’s estimates imply that the DDG(X) would cost 10 percent more than the DDG-51 Flight III but would have a full-load displacement that is 40 percent greater.”

The Navy estimates the cost at $2.1 to $2.4 billion and the service “contends that the case of the DDG(X) will differ from that of the DDG-1000 because the former ship would have a combat system and radar substantially similar to those of the DDG-51 Flight III and would only require designing a new hull and power system,” reads the report.

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday earlier this year compared the evolution of the DDG(X) from the Flight III DDG-51s to how the Navy transitioned from the Ticonderoga-class to the original Flight I DDG-51.

“Our intent for DDG(X) would be much the same, that we would use a proven combat system on that ship. But we need a ship that has more space and allows for more weight and for capability growth over time. An example might be hypersonic missiles, just based on the size of those missiles. We couldn’t fit those in a current Arleigh Burke, or even a Flight III. [DDG(X) is] a deeper ship, if you will, from that standpoint,” he said in September.

The CBO report cited cost growth in other shipbuilding programs as a counter to the Navy’s position that keeping existing systems will cut costs.

“Such an outcome, however, seems unlikely on the basis of the history of building new surface combatants. For example, in the 2000s, the Navy estimated that the [16,000-ton] Zumwalt class DDG-1000 guided missile destroyer would cost only slightly more than the [9,000-ton] DDG-51s that were then in production, even though the DDG-1000 was 50 percent larger than the DDG-51. Ultimately, costs for the DDG-1000 increased by about 45 percent,” reads the report.

In the submarine realm, CBO estimates that the service’s planned next-generation attack submarine (SSN(X)) could cost between $6.2 and $7.2 billion – well above the Navy’s $5.6 billion estimate.

The current Virginia-class boats cost about $2.8 billion per hull, while the Block Vs with the 80-foot Virginia Payload Module will cost about $3.2 billion.

“Estimating the costs of the SSN(X) is difficult because the Navy has not yet determined its capabilities or size. In the past, the Navy has indicated that, like the Seawolf class (SSN-21) submarine, the next-generation attack submarine should be faster, stealthier, and able to carry more torpedoes than Virginia class ships. The service has also indicated that it wants the SSN(X) to have vertical launch capability, an attribute of the Improved Los Angeles class submarine and the original Virginia class submarine,” reads the report.
“CBO’s cost estimates therefore reflect the assumption that the SSN(X) would be similar to a Seawolf class submarine but would have an entirely new design. The submarine’s advanced features would make it as quiet and stealthy as possible; it could launch missiles from missile cells and would contain a torpedo room the size of those on Seawolf class submarines.”

Seawolf-class attack boats can hold up to 50 torpedoes, USNI News understands.

“Virginia remains the most capable multi-mission submarine in the world, bar none,” Rear Adm. Doug Perry, the director of the undersea warfare division on the chief of naval operations staff (OPNAV N97), said last year. “But we must maintain our undersea advantage by investing for future capabilities. And we know we need to start that work today to make sure we can deliver SSN(X) in time of need, and without lots of technical or schedule risk.”



 

MH.Yang

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 21, 2021
5,780
2
10,407
Country
China
Location
China

MH.Yang

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 21, 2021
5,780
2
10,407
Country
China
Location
China
In 2021, China's shipbuilding industry completed ships with a tonnage of around 39.7 million tons deadweight, an increase of three percent compared to 2020. China has the biggest shipbuilding industry worldwide, accounting for 48.4 percent of global shipbuilding tonnage completions in 2021.


BTW: The capacity of the U.S. shipbuilding industry is 300k tons per year. It is equivalent to 0.7% of China's shipbuilding industry.
 

Beast

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 5, 2011
30,545
-51
67,151
Country
China
Location
China
In 2021, China's shipbuilding industry completed ships with a tonnage of around 39.7 million tons deadweight, an increase of three percent compared to 2020. China has the biggest shipbuilding industry worldwide, accounting for 48.4 percent of global shipbuilding tonnage completions in 2021.


BTW: The capacity of the U.S. shipbuilding industry is 300k tons per year. It is equivalent to 0.7% of China's shipbuilding industry.
And they are not able to produce warship in any meaningful numbers without bankrupt USA economy. US is walking the same road of USSR.
 

MH.Yang

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 21, 2021
5,780
2
10,407
Country
China
Location
China
And they are not able to produce warship in any meaningful numbers without bankrupt USA economy. US is walking the same road of USSR.
After 2012, China has added more than 170000 tons of warships every year. The gross tonnage has reached 2.3 million tons.

The total tonnage of the US Navy is 3.5 million tons.

According to the speed at which China manufactures warships, it only takes seven years for the Chinese navy to surpass the US navy.


The Chinese navy has no shortage of funds, technology, production capacity, and support from the government and the people. The only factor affecting the expansion speed of the Chinese navy is the training speed of Chinese naval officers.
 
Last edited:

zectech

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 12, 2018
3,873
-3
4,355
Country
Italy
Location
Netherlands
And they are not able to produce warship in any meaningful numbers without bankrupt USA economy. US is walking the same road of USSR.

Except for bitcoin.

Satoshi Nakamoto translates to central intelligence in Japanese. And if the dollar collapses and brings down the national currencies around the globe, bitcoin is the planned replacement.

US would own 500 trillion USD in todays worth of dollars in bitcoin if bitcoin goes to 100 million+ per bitcoin.

So the US is not afraid of a dollar collapse and pushing for a dollar collapse.

US could fund a 100 years war with China with the amount of bitcoin the USA owns. China could only fund a few years of war.

So as the Chinese are happy about the dollar demise. Chinese are happy only about their demise. Unless, China pushes for a silver and gold backed national currencies which would crush the US empire.
 

Beny Karachun

BANNED
May 30, 2016
5,612
-37
3,132
Country
Israel
Location
Israel
Except for bitcoin.

Satoshi Nakamoto translates to central intelligence in Japanese. And if the dollar collapses and brings down the national currencies around the globe, bitcoin is the planned replacement.

US would own 500 trillion USD in todays worth of dollars in bitcoin if bitcoin goes to 100 million+ per bitcoin.

So the US is not afraid of a dollar collapse and pushing for a dollar collapse.

US could fund a 100 years war with China with the amount of bitcoin the USA owns. China could only fund a few years of war.

So as the Chinese are happy about the dollar demise. Chinese are happy only about their demise. Unless, China pushes for a silver and gold backed national currencies which would crush the US empire.
Interesting, never thought about this theory.
 

MH.Yang

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 21, 2021
5,780
2
10,407
Country
China
Location
China
Except for bitcoin.

Satoshi Nakamoto translates to central intelligence in Japanese. And if the dollar collapses and brings down the national currencies around the globe, bitcoin is the planned replacement.

US would own 500 trillion USD in todays worth of dollars in bitcoin if bitcoin goes to 100 million+ per bitcoin.

So the US is not afraid of a dollar collapse and pushing for a dollar collapse.

US could fund a 100 years war with China with the amount of bitcoin the USA owns. China could only fund a few years of war.

So as the Chinese are happy about the dollar demise. Chinese are happy only about their demise. Unless, China pushes for a silver and gold backed national currencies which would crush the US empire.
China controls the export end of goods, controls most of the world's industrial capacity, and has the world's largest market. As long as the Chinese government does not recognize the legitimacy of Bitcoin, and refuses to accept Bitcoin as the payment currency. Then Bitcoin will never become the world currency.
 

truthseeker2010

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 7, 2010
4,480
-8
5,436
Except for bitcoin.

Satoshi Nakamoto translates to central intelligence in Japanese. And if the dollar collapses and brings down the national currencies around the globe, bitcoin is the planned replacement.

US would own 500 trillion USD in todays worth of dollars in bitcoin if bitcoin goes to 100 million+ per bitcoin.

So the US is not afraid of a dollar collapse and pushing for a dollar collapse.

US could fund a 100 years war with China with the amount of bitcoin the USA owns. China could only fund a few years of war.

So as the Chinese are happy about the dollar demise. Chinese are happy only about their demise. Unless, China pushes for a silver and gold backed national currencies which would crush the US empire.

You need industrial capacity to fight war. The collapse of dollar will mean the purchasing power of US public will also collapse. Don't forget the bitcoin won't be replacing usd as the reserve currency. So petro dollar and reserve currency collapse will put US economy in its place.
 

Abu Shaleh Rumi

SENIOR MEMBER
Nov 18, 2018
2,037
0
2,562
Country
Bangladesh
Location
Bangladesh

Take a look at China's biggest destroyer, a $920 million cruiser that's said to be the 2nd most powerful in the world after the USS Zumwalt​


BTW: 055 costs RMB 6 billion. That is 840 million dollars, not 920 million dollars.
That cost includes R&D cost?
 

Beast

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 5, 2011
30,545
-51
67,151
Country
China
Location
China
Except for bitcoin.

Satoshi Nakamoto translates to central intelligence in Japanese. And if the dollar collapses and brings down the national currencies around the globe, bitcoin is the planned replacement.

US would own 500 trillion USD in todays worth of dollars in bitcoin if bitcoin goes to 100 million+ per bitcoin.

So the US is not afraid of a dollar collapse and pushing for a dollar collapse.

US could fund a 100 years war with China with the amount of bitcoin the USA owns. China could only fund a few years of war.

So as the Chinese are happy about the dollar demise. Chinese are happy only about their demise. Unless, China pushes for a silver and gold backed national currencies which would crush the US empire.
Bitcoin backed by what thing? Thin air?
 

Beidou2020

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 3, 2013
7,858
-48
20,797
Country
China
Location
New Zealand
LMAO. Typical Americans.

These will go the same way as the Seawolf, Zumwalt, F-22, and B-2. These costs will only increase from their estimates.

Same thing happened to many American civilian industries. They lost their competitiveness due to over-engineering and become overpriced.
 

nang2

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 14, 2015
5,729
2
5,403
Country
China
Location
Canada
Except for bitcoin.

Satoshi Nakamoto translates to central intelligence in Japanese. And if the dollar collapses and brings down the national currencies around the globe, bitcoin is the planned replacement.

US would own 500 trillion USD in todays worth of dollars in bitcoin if bitcoin goes to 100 million+ per bitcoin.

So the US is not afraid of a dollar collapse and pushing for a dollar collapse.

US could fund a 100 years war with China with the amount of bitcoin the USA owns. China could only fund a few years of war.

So as the Chinese are happy about the dollar demise. Chinese are happy only about their demise. Unless, China pushes for a silver and gold backed national currencies which would crush the US empire.
That is just pure horseshit. Any concurrency that gets used is either forced upon or willingly accepted. Bitcoin by itself is worthless like paper money. It is only the enforced discipline built in its protocol that attracts people to use it. If US wants that discipline, USD dollar would be a well welcomed concurrency. It is the lack of fiscal disciple that would collapse it. Now, trying to force China to use bitcoin.
 

PakFactor

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 30, 2019
7,582
0
13,815
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Except for bitcoin.

Satoshi Nakamoto translates to central intelligence in Japanese. And if the dollar collapses and brings down the national currencies around the globe, bitcoin is the planned replacement.

US would own 500 trillion USD in todays worth of dollars in bitcoin if bitcoin goes to 100 million+ per bitcoin.

So the US is not afraid of a dollar collapse and pushing for a dollar collapse.

US could fund a 100 years war with China with the amount of bitcoin the USA owns. China could only fund a few years of war.

So as the Chinese are happy about the dollar demise. Chinese are happy only about their demise. Unless, China pushes for a silver and gold backed national currencies which would crush the US empire.

What complete an utter horseshit.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom