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Days after taking Made in India vaccine, BJP minister tests COVID-19 positive

undercover JIX

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Let's assume, all the meds made in India are either knockoffs or produced by licence or outright plagiarised.

Does that take away the technical know-how and manufacturing capabilities?

Does it take away the production and institutional know-how about the development of pharmaceutical goods?

You have no idea, what accumulation of years of practice does for a manufacturing sector.
and then you will say China is just making copies of western Stuff???? Chini Copy no good? Indian Copy very very good?
 

Krptonite

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I am only saying, why not use proven ancient Indian cures?

are Indians loosing their trust and belief on Vedic achievements and cures?

or Vedic cures are enforced only upon low cast hindus? brahmans do not use it themselves?
They were somewhat effective when no universal medical knowledge was available.

Does that take away from what is being done now, with the rigerous implementation of scientific methods?

If India was a monolith as you'd like it to be, maybe the criticism would be justified. Be rational though, bringing offtopic vedic ventures or the braying of some people on that topic in an article about the development of a vaccine showcases ignorance at best or jealousy at worst.
and then you will say China is just making copies of western Stuff???? Chini Copy no good? Indian Copy very very good?
Not at all, and as you can see from all my posts here, nowhere has that been even remotely been alluded to. There is no question of superiority of one over the other, simply admiration for everyone attempting to solve this issue.

GoC deserves every bit of praise for its efforts to create a vaccine, just as every nation attempting to do the same does. To choose and pick one attempt over the other, paints the scientific process in a nationalist light and degrades the efforts made by those to develop this vaccine.
Might I inquire how so?

Producing or manufacturing a product for a long time imparts know-how which accumulates over a long term. This serves as an excellent base for new ventures. There is a specific expression " leapfrogging" which attempts to explain this phenomenon of developing countries skipping some parts of the iterative research procedures to start from a point that is well established, thus leaping some intermediate steps. China and developing countries like India showcase this behaviour across sectors.
 
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undercover JIX

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They were somewhat effective when no universal medical knowledge was available.
So are you saying, Vedic stuff is useless now, and all the Indian claims of Super Vedic achievements which are mostly superior to present day technology are lies?

Does that take away from what is being done now, with the rigerous implementation of scientific methods?
Continues from my above comment.....But Indians claim that all western Tech is stolen and translated from Vedic scriptures. or you admitting that westerns are real decedents of Vedic civilizations and Indians are making false claims to Vedic era.

If India was a monolith as you'd like it to be, maybe the criticism would be justified. Be rational though, bringing offtopic vedic ventures or the braying of some people on that topic in an article about the development of a vaccine showcases ignorance at best or jealousy at worst.
We are just trying to understand super claims of Indians, nothing more nothing less.
 

Krptonite

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So are you saying, Vedic stuff is useless now, and all the Indian claims of Super Vedic achievements which are mostly superior to present day technology are lies?



Continues from my above comment.....But Indians claim that all western Tech is stolen and translated from Vedic scriptures. or you admitting that westerns are real decedents of Vedic civilizations and Indians are making false claims to Vedic era.



We are just trying to understand super claims of Indians, nothing more nothing less.
1. If you could provide Indian medical journals extolling vedic remedies over the current allopathic ones, I'd be very grateful. Otherwise your point remains moot. You've made an assumption based on sources neither one of us accepts.

2. The science of medicine is an iterative one. Accumulated over centuries from various sources and accelerated by the scientific process of western countries in the 21st century. Maybe their roots can be traced back to ancient scriptures, but the contribution would be only limited to that. Might I ask for your sources extolling vedic medicine over the current developed ones, personally I find that exertion of superiority to be ludicrous.

3. It is your fundamental right to understand and critisize any assertions made in the scientific field of medicine, regardless of it's sources. Surely though, you can agree, the criticism loses its spark, if the rebutal is along the lines of cow dung rather than any questions about the scientific process involved to develop it.
 
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undercover JIX

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1. If you could provide Indian medical journals extolling vedic remedies over the current allopathic ones, I'd be very grateful. Otherwise your point remains moot. You've made an assumption based on sources neither one of us accepts.

2. The science of medicine is an iterative one. Accumulated over centuries from various sources and accelerated by the scientific process of western countries in the 21st century. Maybe their roots can be traced back to ancient scriptures, but the contribution would be only limited to that. Might I ask for your sources extolling vedic medicine over the current developed ones, personally I find that exertion of superiority to be ludicrous.

3. It is your fundamental right to understand and critisize any assertions made in the scientific field of medicine, regardless of it's sources. Surely though, you can agree, the criticism loses its spark, if the rebutal is along the lines of cow dung rather than any questions on the scientific process to develop it.
I understand what you are trying to say, but we have to take words of influential figures of India, currently.

and we know the claims of Vedic Technological superiority. including Medicine propagated by them. some of the good so called scientists did it too.

Why this BJP Minister would even try this vaccine, BJP is having parties and advocating Indians to use vedic cures.

I do not think there is a need to post those claims and videos here, because we all know well.
 

Krptonite

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I understand what you are trying to say, but we have to take words of influential figures of India, currently.

and we know the claims of Vedic Technological superiority. including Medicine propagated by them. some of the good so called scientists did it too.

Why this BJP Minister would even try this vaccine, BJP is having parties and advocating Indians to use vedic cures.

I do not think there is a need to post those claims and videos here, because we all know well.
To an extent I can understand your assertions and they are valid in the sense that my countrymen and politicians have gone on record to expouse such nonsense.

Surely though, you'd agree, absent a confirmation from a medical journal, those words belong to the same realm of hot-air all politicians are known to infamously excrete and should be treated as such. To base assertions on those would be either to rightly mock or to derail, they have no place in rationality or the scientific procedure.

Similarly, what our politicians do or say is world's apart from what our scientific community does or says, why intersect one with the other? There would be no rational basis for it.
 
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undercover JIX

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To an extent I can understand your assertions and they are valid in the sense that my countrymen and politicians have gone on record to expouse such nonsense.

Surely though, you'd agree, absent a confirmation from a medical journal, those words belong to the same realm of hot-air all policians are known to infamously excrete and should be treated as such. To base assertions on those would be either to rightly mock or to derail, they have no place in rationality or the scientific procedure.

Similarly, what our politicians do or say is world's apart from what our scientific community does or says, why intersect one with the other?
But, this the envisioned future of present day India, by the rulers, and widely accepted and celebrated by majority of Indian.

Present day India would cease to exist and new and prosperous and shining Hindu Rashtra will emerge from it .... and for that to happen RSS means Modi Govt is bringing back vedic practices and ideologies, and main concept is, Vedic era and practices were better then current, including scientifically and technologically.

We can see, Indian Nation has gone bonkers with fake claims to everything....
 

Krptonite

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But, this the envisioned future of present day India, by the rulers, and widely accepted and celebrated by majority of Indian.

Present day India would cease to exist and new and prosperous and shining Hindu Rashtra will emerge from it .... and for that to happen RSS means Modi Govt is bringing back vedic practices and ideologies, and main concept is, Vedic era and practices were better then current, including scientifically and technologically.

We can see, Indian Nation has gone bonkers with fake claims to everything....
The current administration has attempted to instill pride by redefining past achievements as nationalistic achievements. Their efficiency remains to be answered by medical journals and should be looked at through those lenses. Some are valid while others are plain hogwash.

There are many colours of many shades over here. Your assumption of each one of us holding the same just doesn't hold true. If only the ignorant or the loud represent the community, then one can assume the entire population of western countries believe the world to be flat and are against masks in general. You see the inconsistency with that line of logic?

There are many who unabashedly agree with whatever the administration of the day espouses, just as many who unabashedly disagree with the same. The internet and anonymity skews this perception to a great degree, especially when members of our collective nations argue over the internet.

Emotions trump rationality majority of the time. They cannot be the basis of a conjecture though.

Look at the conversation we're having as an example, for citizens from nations seemingly perennial at war, my conversation with you has been both delightfully informative and constructive. Might I be hopeful and decry all Indians and Pakistanis to be paragons of reasonable exchange?
 
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undercover JIX

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The current administration has attempted to instill pride by redefining past achievements as nationalistic achievements. Their efficiency remains to be answered by medical journals and should be looked at through those lenses. Some are valid while others are plain hogwash.

There are many colours of many shades over here. Your assumption of each one of us holding the same just doesn't hold true. If only the ignorant or the loud represent the community, then one can assume the entire population of western countries believe the world to be flat and are against masks in general. You see the inconsistency with that line of logic?

There are many who unabashedly agree with whatever the administration of the day espouses, just as many who unabashedly disagree with the same. The internet and anonymity skews this perception to a great degree, especially when members of our collective nations argue over the internet.

Emotions trump rationality majority of the time. They cannot be the basis of a conjecture though.

Look at the conversation we're having as an example, for nations seemingly perennial at war, my conversation with you has been both delightfully informative and constructive. Might I be hopeful and decry all Indians and Pakistanis to be paragons of reasonable exchange?
continuously growing support of RSS Govt in India is a reality, and mental state of Ministers and huge following of Andh Bhakts can not be ignored. We can not ignore the fact that, same RSS never took part in Independence Movement, objected Indian flag and constitution and killed father of the nation Gandhi Ji.

Time for emotions has long past, we witnessed RSS govt. policies during first term and re elected same again, so its clear that, Majority of Indians want this and following and believing any filth comes out of this RSS Govt.

Conversations always take a dip in gobar, when talking to a Sanghi, and its not a surprise because we know Andh Bhakht Logic.

So yes, undisputedly an over whelming majority has lost its marbles, in India.

Future of Hindu Rashtra is so clear, Indians having weekly gatherings of Gobar and Mutra bath.
 

Krptonite

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continuously growing support of RSS Govt in India is a reality, and mental state of Ministers and huge following of Andh Bhakts can not be ignored. We can not ignore the fact that, same RSS never took part in Independence Movement, objected Indian flag and constitution and killed father of the nation Gandhi Ji.

Time for emotions has long past, we witnessed RSS govt. policies during first term and re elected same again, so its clear that, Majority of Indians want this and following and believing any filth comes out of this RSS Govt.

Conversations always take a dip in gobar, when talking to a Sanghi, and its not a surprise because we know Andh Bhakht Logic.

So yes, undisputedly an over whelming majority has lost its marbles, in India.

Future of Hindu Rashtra is so clear, Indians having weekly gatherings of Gobar and Mutra bath.
Let us agree to disagree then.

My anecdotal evidence holds more weightage for events over here just as yours holds more for any news regarding Pakistan. Our media can no longer be tasked to be impartial or even just plain truthful.
 

undercover JIX

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Let us agree to disagree then.

My anecdotal evidence holds more weightage for events over here just as yours holds more for any news regarding Pakistan. Our media can no longer be tasked to be impartial or even just plain truthful.
I am purely speaking based on reality and not feel good assertions.

Results of Last elections speaks for itself, increase in seats and votes etc. so I do not know what you are looking at.
 

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Might I refer you to GoPs decision to exclude gobar Indian made meds to the trade ban with GoI.

Why is the GoP deliberately allowing injestion of feaces by it's citizens?
Well because it's cheap and it works. But is that the case in this vaccine? I think this particular Indian vaccine is tad bit better than injecting fecal matter into their veins but not by much.
 

Krptonite

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Well because it's cheap and it works. But is that the case in this vaccine? I think this particular Indian vaccine is tad bit better than injecting fecal matter into their veins but not by much.
Does not your first statement contradict your sentiments in your last statement about Indian medicines.

As for the efficacy of the vaccine, it is too early to either deride or brag about it. Let the study results come out, after that it would be open season.
I am purely speaking based on reality and not feel good assertions.

Results of Last elections speaks for itself, increase in seats and votes etc. so I do not know what you are looking at.
If you explore the first past the post election system, you'd be surprised to know that it often leads to minority rule and skewed representation.

Even with the numbers available now, the current administration enjoys a vote share not more than around one third of the voting populace. Your assertions simply do not hold true in this case.
 
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TheSnakeEatingMarkhur

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Haw haw! look at stupid endians trying to make a vaccine. Just wait for the Chinese to make it and sell it to ya, ya dum dums.

It takes a special kind to mock others on something one is not even capable of.
Funny that you pissed off because we made fun of indian filed vaccine as for Pakistan we knew that we will be able to buy it so we didnt waste time on that instead we put all our efforts un Immunoglobulin and plasma treatment which yielded results much quicker... only downside was that they couldnt be implemented on mass scale so they was only given to people who were critical or serious... and results were successful I think around 70% effective...
I don't exactly know much about vedic science nor do I give it much weightage, but surely trying to make one by yourself beats waiting for others to make it for you.

Mocking others for trying to find a solution is much easier than trying to tread one by yourself.

India's your perennial enemy, I get that. I truly do, but all mocking us does, is divert from the question of self capability to solve a similar problem.

You're right, there's no bragadacio untill it works. Just as there should be no derision untill it completely fails either, especially when one does not possess capabilities to attempt anything similar, glass houses and all.

Various countries, yours included, would disagree with you about the efficacy of Indian made drugs, even the plagued reputation of our generics fare better than some original ones. Medicinal effects, you see, are indifferent to personal opinions.

Surely you'd agree, medical vaccine production process is frought with complications and setbacks. It's simply a part of an iterative scientific procedure.
Yeah we have seen solutions "Go Corona Go" "Cow Mutra" and now this...

We used Immunoglobulin and plasam treatement which yielded results along with effective covid control strategy... india on other hand... we all know...
Might I refer you to GoPs decision to exclude gobar Indian made meds to the trade ban with GoI.

Why is the GoP deliberately allowing injestion of feaces by it's citizens?
Still giving away that hydroxychloroquine to Pakistan like you said you were and got humiliated? 🤣
 
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UKBengali

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Guys,

Let us be sensible as the minister only got the first dose of the two dose vaccine and so would not have been immunised yet.

This is the way all the coronavirus vaccines pretty much works.

We should all hope for as many safe and effective vaccines as possible.
 

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