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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

MirageBlue

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Unlike F/A18SH, Rafale wings don't fold. So it won't fit into small Indian carrier elevators.



I heard that French will allow integration of Indian BVRMs on Rafales only if India buys more Rafales.

The French are laying the ground for making the Rafale the most attractive (it already is the most obvious) 114 MRFA competition contestant via commonality with the existing 36 Rafales and also by allowing the addition of Indian weapons. Astra Mk2 and Astra Mk3 will follow on once the Astra Mk1 is integrated.

the Indian developed NG-ARM is the next obvious candidate, given that SEAD/DEAD is a big issue and the Rafale lags in this aspect. NG-ARM (aka Rudram 1) is already integrated to the Su-30MKI, but the Rafale will be definitely on the list as well.

No.
It was inked in the first batch purchase. As Israeli glide bombs (Hammer is "only" a complement).



It's true (for wings). But if it was impossible to fit the elevator, Dassault will never have spent money for tests.
So or there is space, or the leevators will be enlarged, or Dassault found an easy solution.
Elevators definitely won't be touched. It is a massive undertaking and if the Rafale M doesn't fit the elevators, then it's out.

Clearly Dassault would've studied the issue very closely and a solution exists, else they wouldn't have spent the millions to send 2 Rafale Ms to Goa to conduct carrier compatibility testing off the STBF at INS Hansa.
 

BON PLAN

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France’s Rafale jets are frontrunner in race for Indian Navy contract

Forward movement by the Indian Navy would mean that the proposal for more Rafale jets for the IAF is also likely to gather speed.


"Asked whether the lift size of India’s indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant would be an issue, sources said both aircraft had to be brought up and down at a certain angle. While the wings of Super Hornets fold — unlike the Rafale — these still had to be brought up and down at a certain angle. Both aircraft also have a separate process in which the wings fold."

the Indian developed NG-ARM is the next obvious candidate, given that SEAD/DEAD is a big issue and the Rafale lags in this aspect.
I hope France to purchase a SEAD/DEAD weapon. Why not the indian one ?
 
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Abdul Rehman Majeed

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Elevators definitely won't be touched. It is a massive undertaking and if the Rafale M doesn't fit the elevators, then it's out.

Clearly Dassault would've studied the issue very closely and a solution exists, else they wouldn't have spent the millions to send 2 Rafale Ms to Goa to conduct carrier compatibility testing off the STBF at INS Hansa.

You are planning to operate Rafale-M from your shore bases not from your Aircraft Carriers.
 

MirageBlue

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You are planning to operate Rafale-M from your shore bases not from your Aircraft Carriers.
What does that even mean? Rafale Ms wouldn't be needed if there wasn't the issue of the INS Vikrant and it's embarked fighters.

Anyway, there are news reports that the IN has submitted it's report to the MoD and the Rafale is the frontrunner as per those news reports.

France’s Rafale jets are frontrunner in race for Indian Navy contract

Forward movement by the Indian Navy would mean that the proposal for more Rafale jets for the IAF is also likely to gather speed.


"Asked whether the lift size of India’s indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant would be an issue, sources said both aircraft had to be brought up and down at a certain angle. While the wings of Super Hornets fold — unlike the Rafale — these still had to be brought up and down at a certain angle. Both aircraft also have a separate process in which the wings fold."


I hope France to purchase a SEAD/DEAD weapon. Why not the indian one ?

Ideally speaking the French should evaluate the NG-ARM and if it suits them, then go ahead and order them. But I'm assuming that won't happen with MBDA not being pleased with any such order going to anyone else but them.
 

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Ideally speaking the French should evaluate the NG-ARM and if it suits them, then go ahead and order them. But I'm assuming that won't happen with MBDA not being pleased with any such order going to anyone else but them.
Not only this missile, but also Brahmos mini as, at least, an interim solution in air to sea.
MDBA has a lobby power, but armys need now new weapons, and India is a closer ally. Why not a deal Rafale against missiles?
 

Abdul Rehman Majeed

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What does that even mean? Rafale Ms wouldn't be needed if there wasn't the issue of the INS Vikrant and it's embarked fighters.

Anyway, there are news reports that the IN has submitted it's report to the MoD and the Rafale is the frontrunner as per those news reports.

I thought my post was clear enough.

Indian Navy will operate Rafale-M from the shore bases and not from the Air craft carriers as Rafale-M will not fit in the elevators of the Indian Aircraft carriers.
 

MirageBlue

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I thought my post was clear enough.

Indian Navy will operate Rafale-M from the shore bases and not from the Air craft carriers as Rafale-M will not fit in the elevators of the Indian Aircraft carriers.
Lol..ok whatever. Surely you know better than the IN and Dassault.

Not only this missile, but also Brahmos mini as, at least, an interim solution in air to sea.
MDBA has a lobby power, but armys need now new weapons, and India is a closer ally. Why not a deal Rafale against missiles?
It would work out great, except that like you said, MBDA has a big lobby and would not allow for Indian exports, even for a weapon like NG-ARM for which MBDA has no proven alternative.

Given that Indo-French defence trade is completely one way, it would be a welcome change to see exports going to France from India, in areas where the cost and quality of Indian weapons works out to fill niche areas where there is no French equivalent available.
 

MirageBlue

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IAF Rafale

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SQ8

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This is huge - makes the IAF jump ahead of any threat it faces if this can be implemented across the fleet. Better than the mess on the Russian fleet and retrofit the M2ks.

"the Rafale F4 will be optimised for collaborative warfare. A new 3D localisation mode will become available with the F4.1 Standard, allowing pilots within the same mission to determine passively, but with an extremely high level of precision, the location of a target and to share it with the rest of the force. This multiple aircraft 3D localisation, a kind of collaborative triangulation performed via the L16 datalink initially, will permit an unambiguous air-to-air and air-to-surface tactical picture to be built automatically, with the Spectra self-defence/electronic warfare suite passively detecting all radar emitters in the area, be they from surface-to-air missiles batteries or from combat aircraft." The Rafale F4.1 collaborative warfare combat capabilities will also cover target designation thanks to the development of a new FMDL mode used for third party target designation.


FMDL (Fighter to Missile Data Link)
 

BON PLAN

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This is huge - makes the IAF jump ahead of any threat it faces if this can be implemented across the fleet. Better than the mess on the Russian fleet and retrofit the M2ks.

"the Rafale F4 will be optimised for collaborative warfare. A new 3D localisation mode will become available with the F4.1 Standard, allowing pilots within the same mission to determine passively, but with an extremely high level of precision, the location of a target and to share it with the rest of the force. This multiple aircraft 3D localisation, a kind of collaborative triangulation performed via the L16 datalink initially, will permit an unambiguous air-to-air and air-to-surface tactical picture to be built automatically, with the Spectra self-defence/electronic warfare suite passively detecting all radar emitters in the area, be they from surface-to-air missiles batteries or from combat aircraft." The Rafale F4.1 collaborative warfare combat capabilities will also cover target designation thanks to the development of a new FMDL mode used for third party target designation.


FMDL (Fighter to Missile Data Link)
Multistatism radar is to come in a late F4 standard (F4.3 ???) or F5. It will be another step to detect VLO birds at long range.
 

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