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CV-17 Shandong - Type 002 Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions

zectech

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China placed nuclear powered carriers, air force and nevy fighters on top priorities first to counter dangerous US threat at the moment. STOVL fighter programme will start after stealth bomber (heavy fighter bomber) consecutively or concurrently.

It won't be hard for China because the same Yakovlev engineers that made F-35B STOVL could do the same for China. Single engine STOVL fighter most likely unless China wanted to try world's first twin engine STOVL large fighters. China would invest more into STOVL fighters because it could land on simple piece of flatlands should China decided to engage US in Pacific Ocean war. Heavy Tiltrotor is in China's mind too.

R&D involves trial and error involving billions to trillions. US made lots of fighters, choppers, ships in 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's that were short-lived spending much to contribute to technology perfection. You can see the same on J-10 development from A to B to C. J-10B built in small numbers and perfected further to J-10C that will go mass production. Even J-20B today is not finalized and subject to further modifications later in J-20C depending on how soon they could perfect the technology.
J-15s have to stay relevant in naval warfare.

They have the capabilities to be a strike fighter for many years. However when matched with F/A-18 Super Hornets, it is debatable of who wins.

To catch up, China should implement more electronic warfare on the J-15s, like the Saab Gripen. They can give false radar data forcing enemy aircraft to engage in vision range combat. Destroying long range stealth advantage. Having some aircraft like the Growler on the 001/2 would help too. And I mentioned that upgrading radars to radars not yet invented for planes would be a great R&D task for the J-15s. They have ground radars that can track and destroy stealth at many Kms. These radars need to be miniaturized for PLAN/ PLAAF.

Keeping J-15s relevant keeps 001/2 relevant and extends their usefulness to the PLAN.

001s won't be useless for many years, look at how long we Italians have kept our small light carrier in service with only harriers and helicopters. We know the limitations and use only for strike and ASW.
 

UKBengali

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J-15s have to stay relevant in naval warfare.

They have the capabilities to be a strike fighter for many years. However when matched with F/A-18 Super Hornets, it is debatable of who wins.

To catch up, China should implement more electronic warfare on the J-15s, like the Saab Gripen. They can give false radar data forcing enemy aircraft to engage in vision range combat. Destroying long range stealth advantage. Having some aircraft like the Growler on the 001/2 would help too. And I mentioned that upgrading radars to radars not yet invented for planes would be a great R&D task for the J-15s. They have ground radars that can track and destroy stealth at many Kms. These radars need to be miniaturized for PLAN/ PLAAF.

Keeping J-15s relevant keeps 001/2 relevant and extends their usefulness to the PLAN.

001s won't be useless for many years, look at how long we Italians have kept our small light carrier in service with only harriers and helicopters. We know the limitations and use only for strike and ASW.

J-15s would be absolutely useless when they go against US carriers with F-35Cs.

That is why I think that China wont build too many more and will likely focus on a navalised J-35 that can better compete with the F-35C for carrier air warfare.

On the Type-002 we shall see J-15s on a temporary basis before they start to get replaced by J-35. From the Type-003 onwards we shall see only J-35s.
 

UKBengali

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All we know is that USN is still buying new F-18.

Next year is the last year that USN will procure F-18.


F-35C IOC was in 2019 and so already in service for a year now.

USN is procuring F-35Cs at a rate of 20 this year and 20 next year. All 350 or so F-35s will be produced by the end of the decade and can be placed on carriers.

F-18s may still be used on USN carriers post 2030 in other regions but when they approach China, expect only F-35Cs.

China would be foolish to produce many J-15s.
 

LKJ86

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Next year is the last year that USN will procure F-18.


F-35C IOC was in 2019 and so already in service for a year now.

USN is procuring F-35Cs at a rate of 20 this year and 20 next year. All 350 or so F-35s will be produced by the end of the decade and can be placed on carriers.

F-18s may still be used on USN carriers post 2030 in other regions but when they approach China, expect only F-35Cs.

China would be foolish to produce many J-15s.
There wil be new versions of J-15 in service, corresponding to J-11D and J-16.

As the only heavy-weight carrier-based fighter still in production in the world, J-15 would be a good partner of J-35, similar to the relationship between J-20 and J-16.
 

Figaro

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Next year is the last year that USN will procure F-18.


F-35C IOC was in 2019 and so already in service for a year now.

USN is procuring F-35Cs at a rate of 20 this year and 20 next year. All 350 or so F-35s will be produced by the end of the decade and can be placed on carriers.

F-18s may still be used on USN carriers post 2030 in other regions but when they approach China, expect only F-35Cs.

China would be foolish to produce many J-15s.
The J-15B has larger payload and range than the J-35 ... it can basically serve as a bomb truck supporting the J-35s, which will be the vanguard of air to air roles. Please tell me how something like this will be useless? In a primary role, you are indeed correct because they will most likely get shot down by F-35s in BVR, but as secondary support aircraft, they will be very valuable.

Per your logic, all countries in the world should completely stop producing 4th generation aircraft (e.g. F-16V, F-15EX, J-10C, Rafale, Eurofighter, Su-35) because they are going to be mincemeat against 5th generation aircraft :crazy:. Evidently, this has not been the case at all.
1.jpeg
 

UKBengali

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The J-15B has larger payload and range than the J-35 ... it can basically serve as a bomb truck supporting the J-35s, which will be the vanguard of air to air roles. Please tell me how something like this will be useless? In a primary role, you are indeed correct because they will most likely get shot down by F-35s in BVR, but as secondary support aircraft, they will be very valuable.

Per your logic, all countries in the world should completely stop producing 4th generation aircraft (e.g. F-16V, F-15EX, J-10C, Rafale, Eurofighter, Su-35) because they are going to be mincemeat against 5th generation aircraft :crazy:. Evidently, this has not been the case at all.
View attachment 671744

I do not know what the figures are for J-15 or will be for J-35 but F-35 can carry 10 tonnes of ordnance when in non-stealth mode. That is comparable to Russian jets like SU-30 which have the same heritage as J-15.

Yes there will be maybe some advantage to having J-15s in combination with J-35, but would PLAN want to be facing USN carriers out in the Pacific when they are equipped only with F-35Cs and it's carriers have a combo of J-35s/J-15s?
F-35C went into IOC last year and US is building them at a rate of 20 each year now. USN will by the end of this decade be able to equip mostly if not fully with F-35Cs as the build numbers will only go up during the course of this decade

Your analogy with F-15/J-10C/Rafale etc simply is not relevant to this discussion of whether PLAN should ditch 4th gen carrier fighters and fully focus on 5th gen as soon as technically feasible. PLAN's only real adversary and peer will be USN and it should plan against them.
 
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Figaro

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I do not know what the figures are for J-15 or will be for J-35 but F-35 can carry 10 tonnes of ordnance when in non-stealth mode. That is comparable to Russian jets like SU-30 which have the same heritage as J-15.

Yes there will be maybe some advantage to having J-15s in combination with J-35, but would PLAN want to be facing USN carriers out in the Pacific when they are equipped only with F-35Cs and it's carriers have a combo of J-35s/J-15s?
F-35C went into IOC last year and US is building them at a rate of 20 each year now. USN will by the end of this decade be able to equip mostly if not fully with F-35Cs as the build numbers will only go up during the course of this decade

Your analogy with F-15/J-10C/Rafale etc simply is not relevant to this discussion of whether PLAN should ditch 4th gen carrier fighters and fully focus on 5th gen as soon as technically feasible. PLAN's only real adversary and peer will be USN and it should plan against them.
I don't get your point here. The fact of the matter is the J-35 is not ready at all, which means for now the J-15 will have to do the brunt of carrier borne operations (albeit they will be supported by ground fighters like the J-20). In an ideal scenario, of course every single PLANAF carrier borne fighter would be a J-35. The problem is that is a couple of years away at best so for now the carrier wing will still be based on the J-15. Once the J-35 comes alone, it is possible for them to be replace the J-15s but that is another story. What you are saying is basically stating the obvious here. Might I asked you why the US is still purchasing F/A-18Fs even though we know it will be dead against something like the J-20 or the future J-35?
 

kungfugymnast

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I don't get your point here. The fact of the matter is the J-35 is not ready at all, which means for now the J-15 will have to do the brunt of carrier borne operations (albeit they will be supported by ground fighters like the J-20). In an ideal scenario, of course every single PLANAF carrier borne fighter would be a J-35. The problem is that is a couple of years away at best so for now the carrier wing will still be based on the J-15. Once the J-35 comes alone, it is possible for them to be replace the J-15s but that is another story. What you are saying is basically stating the obvious here. Might I asked you why the US is still purchasing F/A-18Fs even though we know it will be dead against something like the J-20 or the future J-35?
J-15A will either be transferred to ground base or coverted to B variant to serve on Type 003, 004, 005 along with numbers being built for air to air, anti-ship & air to ground roles. J-35 will be the stealth division fighter bomber on those EMALS carriers. If you notice, there's no new J-15A being built when Type 003 with EMALS construction started.

The Type 002 will probably be placed on standby and will put into service should war suddenly happens. If no war, most likely it will be left without aircraft at the time being.
 

Figaro

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J-15A will either be transferred to ground base or coverted to B variant to serve on Type 003, 004, 005 along with numbers being built for air to air, anti-ship & air to ground roles. J-35 will be the stealth division fighter bomber on those EMALS carriers. If you notice, there's no new J-15A being built when Type 003 with EMALS construction started.

The Type 002 will probably be placed on standby and will put into service should war suddenly happens. If no war, most likely it will be left without aircraft at the time being.
This makes absolutely no sense at all. I really fail to understand why you operate under the assumption that SAC cannot simply build more J-15s? It definitely has the capacity to do so, as demonstrated by the production of the J-16 and the J-11Bs. Leaving the 001 and 002 without their carrier wings is the dumbest thing ever ... even if China ends up having 10 aircraft carriers by 2035, it is still very likely the first 2 (i.e. 001 and 002) will have their carrier wings operable. The PLAN did not just spend a decade and several billions of dollars just to basically decommission both carriers once more capable carriers come online.
 

CAPRICORN-88

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Consider type 001 & 002 are practice for China to perfect carrier building skills & technology. Transferring J-15A to Type 003 or newer carrier in future is not shortage but as part of MLU and not to put to waste.

Imagine when you already have 8 super carriers and STOVL fighters became available. Wouldn't it be practical to assign the Type 001 & 002 to SCS attached to Spratlys division where most of the STOVL fighters will be based at. If China came up with STOVL fighters, it will be larger than F-35B specifically designed for this role. F-35 made big mistake trying to design a plane for USAF, USN, USMC that reduced its efficiency.

Besides, launching J-15A from Type 001 & 002 aren't practical, better convert these 2 carriers into STOVL fighters platform.
Yes. It was indeed a learning curve for China PLAN.

Unlike the other nations, to build an Aircraft Carrier, China has to build one from scratch.
No nation will ever sell them a full working model.
It took China almost a decade to audit, redesign and refabricated a rust bucket, an abandoned Soviet Varyag into its first ever Aircraft Carrier.
Hundred of thousands of items have to be created and fabricated from nowhere.
It was an immense and no easy task.
The Wassenaar Agreement made it almost impossible to do so.

Now that China has successful build its 2nd Aircraft Carrier AC-02 Shandong, the task ahead will be much easier. I believe China will leap straight into nuclear powerplant rather than its RO101 Heavy duty Gas Turbine. On the merit of the same coin, it will adopted EMALS instead of steam. We have been hearing rumors of the advance development of its 30MW Compact Turbo Electric Generator.
The 20MW may be already operational in the Type 055.
AFAIK nothing is so surprising anymore.
 
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