• Tuesday, November 12, 2019

CJP Chaudhry creates a judicial NAB

Discussion in 'Insaf - Justice' started by SSGPA1, May 2, 2009.

  1. Bane Blade

    Bane Blade SENIOR MEMBER

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    Our parliament will start moving more swiftly if the leader of the opposition was given more thorough of a chance than the current situation, I also think that the APC should have been called a longer while ago then now.
     
  2. Interceptor

    Interceptor SENIOR MEMBER

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    Thats quite blank of a statement, effectively both signatory to the agreement are working in line with it, so how has it lost its value. The COD has now more importance than every thing else, it is now under review by a Parliamentary committee to be implemented. The importance is as such that we want to empower the Prime Minister we want to take the black laws out of the constitution, there is need to make the election commission more impartial so on how can this be non essential. Since it will be under a Parliamentary committee that rules out your perception that you have to be signatory to believe it.
     
  3. SSGPA1

    SSGPA1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    "The COD has now more importance than every thing else"

    Wrong - The COD is not above and more important than the constitution. Even with PCO, Pakistan's constitution is supreme.

    "Since it will be under a Parliamentary committee

    will be are the magic words - lets see when that will be take place :)
     
  4. Bane Blade

    Bane Blade SENIOR MEMBER

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    You keep forgetting that the CoD wants to make the constitution an uneditable document by any one single person so it make the Constitution supreme how can that put the constitution below the CoD?????
     
  5. qsaark

    qsaark SENIOR MEMBER

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    First of all, my understanding is that the special cell created to investigate the corruption in the judiciary would have no jurisdiction over the judges.

    As I mentioned above, to open or hear the cases against the Justices of the Supreme Court will not be in the jurisdictions of this special cell. For this purpose there is Supreme Judicial Council of Pakistan, a body composed of five Justices empowered under the Article 209 of the constitution of Pakistan to hear cases of misconduct against judges.

    It may not be possible, because the Judiciary is a part of the government and relies on the funds from the Government for its functioning.

    So do the Prime Minister, COAS, ACM, the Ministers, Chairman Senate etc etc.

    The most greedy and corrupt are not the poor people, but the so-called well-off, and well to do people. Corruption has little to do with the income; it has more to do with greed. Increased salaries and benefits will undoubtedly help but not revolutionize the overall culture of the Judiciary or of any other Department for that matter.

    This may be true or may not be true. We’ll have to wait to see how this thing works out.

    Again my be and may not be. At any rate what it has to do with the establishment of the special cell?

    All of us are with you in your prayers.
     
  6. qsaark

    qsaark SENIOR MEMBER

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    But letting him do corruption is also not fair. What needs to be done is to establish a committee at national level that forwards its advice on the minimum salary of person in any Department, public or private. Every employee must get at least that minimum salary so he/she could live a modest and respectable life.

    This is a good thought. Though the guidelines are very clear in the Constitution under the chapter 4: General Provisions Relating to The Judicature.

    To be honest with you, in the presence of the Constitution, there is no need for the CoD. All that is required to be done is to follow the constitution according to its spirit. I highly recommend every Pakistani to read the Constitution of Pakistan here. The Constitution of Pakistan

    I second with SSGPA1. All the answers are already present in the Constitution even in its adulterated form.

    This is a good point. This can be addressed by an amendment though. Again if our Judiciary does not support the dictators, there is no way the constitution be amended at the will of a single person.
     
  7. Bane Blade

    Bane Blade SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think that the Judiciary would probably be better off with Civillian rule army has always come in with a harsh stick on them so I think that the Judiciary would support the CoD
     
  8. Interceptor

    Interceptor SENIOR MEMBER

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    A constitution without a political will has left a Pakistan without a Future. This failure to not recognize the need for a political will has made four Provinces ask for independence, we need the CoD and it is not a document for a new constitution:disagree: it is political will. This constitution was never allowed to arm it self since its creator was hanged and dictator after dictator left a legacy that dismembered the constitution.
     
  9. Bane Blade

    Bane Blade SENIOR MEMBER

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    Well its creator broke the rules several times so I think that the history of our constitution has been very down and I agree with Interceptor that this is the time that we atleast support the CoD and try to make sure that the Constitution is upheld.
     
  10. SSGPA1

    SSGPA1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Another interesting point ... Someone just mentioned that CoD states that criteria for the appointment of a judge includes that he/she have never taken oath on a PCO.

    Now if that is the case then current CJP took oath on the first PCO and oath was administered by Gen. Musharraf.

    SEE THIS WONDERFUL PIC AT THE LINK BELOW

    File:Pakistan-CJ.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  11. SSGPA1

    SSGPA1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    So why not extend the existing process under the same frame work instead of creating JNAB? Pakistan doesn't have the time to re-invent the wheel, Pakistan need to improve the existing system with available resources.

    This JNAB is a waste of resources because it is a new process. JNAB should be abolished and Supreme Judicial Council should be extended to all depts of Judiciary.

    I agree but Ch. Iftikhar is in a unique position to push for the salary and benefits package for Judiciary. Current CJP is the most popular man in Pakistan and visiting Sanghar bar etc is not the soultion. CJP needs to take up the matter of pay and benefits with the PM and President.

    This is not applicable in pakistan anymore because right now people are not even able to meet the neccesities of life without haram kamai. This is an unfortuante situation and an independent Judiciary will help to resolve many ills of this society which will eventually save this country.
     
  12. SSGPA1

    SSGPA1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Okay, lets form that committe but it should be formed by the CJP and only at national judicial level.

    This means representatives from Judiciary of all provinces (tops 10 people) sit down and look at the current pay and benefits and then submit requests/recommendations to the CJP. Then CJP leads the initiative to get that implemented by openly contacting the PM and President.
     
  13. qsaark

    qsaark SENIOR MEMBER

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    The SJC was established only to hear cases of corruption among the Justices. If you look at the structure of the SJC, it is composed of only 5 Justices, and all of them pre-occupied with other responsibilities. It is not practical for the SJC to hear each and every case of corruption among the judicial staff.

    There is a structural/organizational hierarchy in the Judiciary. Cases are first taken to the District Courts, and/or Session Courts, than to the High Courts, and cases still un-resolved and of national interest, are taken to the Supreme Court. Similarly, cases of corruption among the lower to middle judicial staff can not be taken directly to SJC.

    A Judicial Council may be established, as an extension of SJC, but extending SJC by itself may not be feasible. Even departments like Military, smaller matters are resolved at lower levels, and not all the cases are taken to and resolved by the Corp Commanders.


    It is possible for him to take suo moto action on this important issue. But with its limited staff, it is not possible for the Supreme Court to establish committees on each and every issue. Besides, a committee on the issue of salaries should include experts and representatives from the different walks of life so their suggestions are factual and meaningful. Supreme court can initiate and direct the establishment of the committee but can not make one only composed of the Justices.

    Yes you have a really good proposal here. I would however, like to include people from other walks of life as well.

    That is why I have suggested that there must be a minimum wage law (there is one but obsolete and dysfunctional), and once it is implemented, no one should be allowed to do corruption behind the veil of “necessity”.
     
  14. Bane Blade

    Bane Blade SENIOR MEMBER

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    Well I am sure that the courts however much they pay can't stop corruption on the high end cases those are the ones that are very important. We need to solve the high end cases just as fairly as we would the small cases salary cap doesn cap a persons Niyat.
     
  15. SSGPA1

    SSGPA1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Corruption will never end but it can be reduced significantly ... this is the difference between Canada and Pakistan where former has low level of corruption and later has high level of corruption at all levels ... goal should be to reduce corruption at low level so when a common man approaches a govt. officer for his legitimate work, he doesn't see obstacles and work should be done ... this will help to achieve the sense of acomplishment in the society over all.