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Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

Deino

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@gambit
Please assist to explain to Deino the reasons of different top speed for the different flanker variants in China inventory. I have explained to him based on aviation engineering books and answers from the US Navy fighter pilots, my country fighter pilots that I have met. Yet he kept saying those are my own made up story. Welcome back to CDF by the way.

@WebMaster
Do not pick side and stay neutral. Gambit is far more knowledgeable and could explain on aerodynamic better since he has flown real combat aircraft. Many including you sure wanted to know why the different flankers have different top speed. The photo below taken during US friendly port of call where I got a tour together with local military, PLA general & Pakistan admiral. I asked the pilots on aerodynamic of carrier based fighters. Deino said those are lies.


No, and you are either lying again or twisting words. I did not deny the different Flanker versions have different landing speeds. All I said is, the not yet revealed J-15T won't have mayor structural changes and/or external differences as you constantly claim since we already know how it looks like. But you are again insisting - after adding several even more completely wrong claims - I would say this, which is simply a lie.

Not sure if this is deliberately lying and as such trolling or based on a lack of reading complrehensions? :crazy:
 

Shotgunner51

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J-16D (Hi-res 1920x1280, 96 dpi)

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kungfugymnast

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No, and you are either lying again or twisting words. I did not deny the different Flanker versions have different landing speeds. All I said is, the not yet revealed J-15T won't have mayor structural changes and/or external differences as you constantly claim since we already know how it looks like. But you are again insisting - after adding several even more completely wrong claims - I would say this, which is simply a lie.

Not sure if this is deliberately lying and as such trolling or based on a lack of reading complrehensions? :crazy:

They just have to change the wings, canard swept angles and it would affect the aerodynamic, cruising & top speed. J-11B, J-16, J-15, Su-27SK, Su-33, Su-35, Su-30 various variants have different aerodynamic because of wings swept angles. Everyone here is waiting for J-15 variant for Type003 actual specifications to determine who is winning. Current J-15A top speed reported at Mach 2.4. If J-15T top speed reduced to Mach 2 or less, then it means swept angle being modified to have low speed stability & maneuverability. The moderator whom I replied to will be main witness. As told numerous times, don't reply this comment.
 

Deino

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Oh no, not you with this BS again :hitwall: :crazy:

They just have to change the wings, canard swept angles and it would affect the aerodynamic, cruising & top speed.

Yes for sure, since changing "the wings, canard swept angles" is sooo easy and was already done before! Did you ever check that nonsense you post before you post? :fie:

ALL Flanker variants have exactly the same wing, at least in terms of wings swept angles. At best their structure was reinforced in order to carry heavier loads. The only truely different one was the single Su-33KUB, which was never mass-produced.

So, again you have been proven wrong!

... J-11B, J-16, J-15, Su-27SK, Su-33, Su-35, Su-30 various variants have different aerodynamic because of wings swept angles.

Wrong for the second time. I slowly don't know what to do with you! :blink: Is this some sort of ignorance, incompetence or simply deliberately trolling? Seems as if it is some sort of "I MUST CONTRADICT regardless how wrong I am!"

So, once again: NONE is different, all J-11B, J-16, J-15, Su-27SK, Su-33, Su-35, Su-30 various variants have exactly the same aerodynamic wings swept angles!
And if you don't agree - what you surely do - then prove it. There are hundreds of books and publications out and NONE say what you claim!

Just in case you don't know to start and check:

1639234482984.png


Everyone here is waiting for J-15 variant for Type003 actual specifications to determine who is winning. Current J-15A top speed reported at Mach 2.4. If J-15T top speed reduced to Mach 2 or less, then it means swept angle being modified to have low speed stability & maneuverability.

Wrong for the third time. No-one here is waiting for J-15 variant for Type 003 actual specifications to determine who is winning. since no-one believes in that stuff you claim. As such there is no quest on winning or loosing but simply "when will you finally admit, that you are wrong"!


The moderator whom I replied to will be main witness. As told numerous times, don't reply this comment.

Ahh ... I shall not reply since you still won't accept any contradiction to your stupid claims.

So once again for you: No-one expects the next batch of J-15s to have any major changes, No redesign in wing swept angle, not related to canards, in fact NO aerodynamic changes at all.
This is based on the fact, that the known J-15T had no changes and from the few images of the already in production aircraft known - which by the way are again single seater but CATOBAR capable - we know, there are no changes at all; as expected. Maybe additionally in parallel to these single seaters, there could be the some J-15S and J-15D (maybe merged into a single variant), which I expect to be similar to the J-16/16D, but they haven't seen yet and for those too, no changes are expected.

So please take this as an advice and don't make an even bigger fool out of yourself! STOP WITH THIS BS!

@Beast
 
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kungfugymnast

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Oh no, not you with this BS again :hitwall: :crazy:



Yes for sure, since changing "the wings, canard swept angles" is sooo easy and was already done before! Did you ever check that nonsense you post before you post? :fie:

ALL Flanker variants have exactly the same wing, at least in terms of wings swept angles. At best their structure was reinforced in order to carry heavier loads. The only truely different one was the single Su-33KUB, which was never mass-produced.

So, again you have been proven wrong!



Wrong for the second time. I slowly don't know what to do with you! :blink: Is this some sort of ignorance, incompetence or simply deliberately trolling? Seems as if it is some sort of "I MUST CONTRADICT regardless how wrong I am!"

So, once again: NONE is different, all J-11B, J-16, J-15, Su-27SK, Su-33, Su-35, Su-30 various variants have exactly the same aerodynamic wings swept angles!
And if you don't agree - what you surely do - then prove it. There are hundreds of books and publications out and NONE say what you claim!

Just in case you don't know to start and check:

View attachment 800302



Wrong for the third time. No-one here is waiting for J-15 variant for Type 003 actual specifications to determine who is winning. since no-one believes in that stuff you claim. As such there is no quest on winning or loosing but simply "when will you finally admit, that you are wrong"!




Ahh ... I shall not reply since you still won't accept any contradiction to your stupid claims.

So once again for you: No-one expects the next batch of J-15s to have any major changes, No redesign in wing swept angle, not related to canards, in fact NO aerodynamic changes at all.
This is based on the fact, that the known J-15T had no changes and from the few images of the already in production aircraft known - which by the way are again single seater but CATOBAR capable - we know, there are no changes at all; as expected. Maybe additionally in parallel to these single seaters, there could be the some J-15S and J-15D (maybe merged into a single variant), which I expect to be similar to the J-16/16D, but they haven't seen yet and for those too, no changes are expected.

So please take this as an advice and don't make an even bigger fool out of yourself! STOP WITH THIS BS!

@Beast

Why are you replying when everyone is waiting for actual result? It's just you afraid to wait for the actual J-15B/T. Now keep quiet, don't reply and wait for the actual j-15 that will take off from Type 003. If J-15B/T for Type 003 have slower top speed of just Mach 2 or slower, we expect your apology.

Your comment here is trying hard to spin things around copying what I have mentioned earlier then claimed you're the one who said that just like bad politician.

This is your final warning Deino, If you reply this message, moderator should give you warning.
 

Deino

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Why are you replying when everyone is waiting for actual result? It's just you afraid to wait for the actual J-15B/T. Now keep quiet, don't reply and wait for the actual j-15 that will take off from Type 003. If J-15B/T for Type 003 have slower top speed of just Mach 2 or slower, we expect your apology.

Your comment here is trying hard to spin things around copying what I have mentioned earlier then claimed you're the one who said that just like bad politician.

This is your final warning Deino, If you reply this message, moderator should give you warning.


The same can be asked to you: Why do you keep insisting there will be changes when there have never been any before, when we already know what the J-15T/B looks like and NO-ONE expects any external changes but you?

Even more all your previous claims ("there are no additional J-15s after Batch 02" - but we know Batch 03 & 04 already, "the PLAN has no J-15s in the STC for the Shandong" - but we know a new unit and NAS at Lingshui, "there are changes in wing geometry on all other Flankers" - when it is commonly known by everyone, all Flankers use the same wing (at least geometry-wise)) have been proven wrong. You are either making things up, misinformed or simply trolling ...

And now you give me a warning??!! Are you crazy? As such either you admit, you were wrong on your previous claims and stop with this BS or any further reply will be rated as derailing the thread once again and as such as trolling!
 

kungfugymnast

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repeated posting of blatant lies, twisting words and trolling!
The same can be asked to you: Why do you keep insisting there will be changes when there have never been any before, when we already know what the J-15T/B looks like and NO-ONE expects any external changes but you?

Even more all your previous claims ("there are no additional J-15s after Batch 02" - but we know Batch 03 & 04 already, "the PLAN has no J-15s in the STC for the Shandong" - but we know a new unit and NAS at Lingshui, "there are changes in wing geometry on all other Flankers" - when it is commonly known by everyone, all Flankers use the same wing (at least geometry-wise)) have been proven wrong. You are either making things up, misinformed or simply trolling ...

And now you give me a warning??!! Are you crazy? As such either you admit, you were wrong on your previous claims and stop with this BS or any further reply will be rated as derailing the thread once again and as such as trolling!

Still can't face the challenge and keep dragging on with replies? I believe the words from US and PLA military personnel more than yours, that's all. The PLA major general (2 stars) said China military manufacturing is just like their domestic business manufacturing mindset, subject to change and adapt to latest environment changes.

Rather than you trying to shut others up with your own opinion, you could just wait for the actual results and see who is right. If Type 003 proven successful, PLAN would not waste resources on building more obsolete J-15A for Type 002 as per China military mindset. There's no point of doing so as J-15A with AL-31 and pulse doppler radar unable to carry full payload just to fill up Type002 won't make itself useful but becomes liability to the fleet during war. Better they spend the budget on building more practical J-15B/T/D and more Type 003 & newer carriers.

US Navy veteran pilots that served Vietnam until Gulf War said they prefer landing the slower more stable F/A-18C on carrier than the faster F-4B/J. You may check the difference of J-15A & J-15B/T/D later on the aerodynamic flight envelope when revealed.

Please wait for the results and stop posting anymore of your opinion. Everyone here be witnesses on Type 002 Shandong class (no more J-15A being built) and Type 003 EMALS based J-15B/D/T slower top speed.
 

Deino

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Still can't face the challenge and keep dragging on with replies? I believe the words from US and PLA military personnel more than yours, that's all. The PLA major general (2 stars) said China military manufacturing is just like their domestic business manufacturing mindset, subject to change and adapt to latest environment changes.

Rather than you trying to shut others up with your own opinion, you could just wait for the actual results and see who is right. If Type 003 proven successful, PLAN would not waste resources on building more obsolete J-15A for Type 002 as per China military mindset. There's no point of doing so as J-15A with AL-31 and pulse doppler radar unable to carry full payload just to fill up Type002 won't make itself useful but becomes liability to the fleet during war. Better they spend the budget on building more practical J-15B/T/D and more Type 003 & newer carriers.

US Navy veteran pilots that served Vietnam until Gulf War said they prefer landing the slower more stable F/A-18C on carrier than the faster F-4B/J. You may check the difference of J-15A & J-15B/T/D later on the aerodynamic flight envelope when revealed.



Ok, just to be clear ... that's it, say good bye!

There si no challenge you think that may be, since regardless what US generals say and if they prefer slower landing speeds, there are no changes at all. All Flankers have exactly the same wing and if you would have checked the latest news, you would notice, GAME OVER!

As such it is no "dragging on with replies in order to not face a challenge" it is only to correct your BS.

And for the last time again:

Please wait for the results and stop posting anymore of your opinion. Everyone here be witnesses on Type 002 Shandong class (no more J-15A being built) and Type 003 EMALS based J-15B/D/T slower top speed.

You shall witness - and finally admit - that after Batch 01 & 02 already two more Batches 03 & 04 have been built and that a second unit has been formed at Lingshui.

But anyway ... say good bye to this section, I have enough of your trolling!
 
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Deino

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Quite a clear image of a PLAAF J-11BG allegedly assigned to a Northern Theater Command fighter brigade.

(Image via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo)

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Polestar 2

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How does the J-16 compare to the SU-35?
Maneuver wise Su-35 is better due to TVC but electronic wise and combat capabilities, J-16 is better. Remember J-16 is AESA while Su-35 is PESA.
Quite a clear image of a PLAAF J-11BG allegedly assigned to a Northern Theater Command fighter brigade.

(Image via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo)

View attachment 801204
Is BG supposed to be twin seat?
 

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