Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[LKJ86]

J-16

Via @西部空天 from Weixin

 

[LKJ86]

J-11BH and J-11BSH

Via @央广军事 from Weibo

 

[Polestar 2]

How many sukhois china copied ?

China paid for the design of Su-27 series and are free to twit for any changes. Even the Mig-21 design are gift by Soviet union to China and F-7 ,J-9L are all legal modification planes from that series.

 

[LKJ86]

J-16

 

[LKJ86]

J-16

 

[ozranger]

Very informative article on the WS-10 engine by analysing it's jet flame colours. Original is in Chinese but Google Translate should help you read in English. The obvious conclusion is WS-10 has greater thrust compared to AL-31F.

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/nANDdYvzwT2kSOklzWQogQ

WS-10

AL-31F

 

[Deino]

... The obvious conclusion is WS-10 has greater thrust compared to AL-31F.

Thanks and indeed "interesting" ... however to come to the conclusion the WS-10 has a "greater thrust compared to AL-31F" based on a lower exhaust temperature and that based on colours is a bit far-fetched!

Even more since today most engines are aimed for even higher temperatures in order to increase their efficiency ... as such a contra-argument could now be to say "the WS-10 has a lower exhaust temperature, and as such a lower core temperature, which would be a hint it is not as efficient and technology-wise "older" or at least less modern!"

 

[GiantPanda]

Thanks and indeed "interesting" ... however to come to the conclusion the WS-10 has a "greater thrust compared to AL-31F" based on a lower exhaust temperature and that based on colours is a bit far-fetched!

Even more since today most engines are aimed for even higher temperatures in order to increase their efficiency ... as such a contra-argument could now be to say "the WS-10 has a lower exhaust temperature, and as such a lower core temperature, which would be a hint it is not as efficient and technology-wise "older" or at least less modern!"

If engine 2 can launch the same weight (that of a Flanker in this case) as engine 1 at a lower temperature then it can launch more than engine 1 when the temperature is the same for both.

Anyways, the science is not exact and efficiency is another question

 

[Deino]

If engine 2 can launch the same weight (that of a Flanker in this case) as engine 1 at a lower temperature then it can launch more than engine 1 when the temperature is the same for both.

Anyways, the science is not exact and efficiency is another question

Agreed and I only wanted to show that such a claim based on orange vs. blue flames have also a second side of the medal.

 

[ozranger]

Thanks and indeed "interesting" ... however to come to the conclusion the WS-10 has a "greater thrust compared to AL-31F" based on a lower exhaust temperature and that based on colours is a bit far-fetched!

Even more since today most engines are aimed for even higher temperatures in order to increase their efficiency ... as such a contra-argument could now be to say "the WS-10 has a lower exhaust temperature, and as such a lower core temperature, which would be a hint it is not as efficient and technology-wise "older" or at least less modern!"

I think the higher and hence the better temperature refers to temperature of heated or burned air flow before the turbine, which is obviously the higher the better, not the jet flows at exhausting nozzles. Turbo fan engines normally have much greater thrust than turbo jet engines with cores on similar specs but with much lower temperature at final jet flows.

The guy who wrote the article iterates through what he saw in the jet flames, which supports his assertion that WS-10 has greater thrust in same or similar working conditions, that WS-10 has

- lower jet flow temperature
- lower speed of the jet flows when the aircraft takes off in relatively low speed (by noticing the Mach loops in the last picture of a J-11A with AL-31F in which afterburners are engaged and evidently supersonic jet flows are visible, ie. more energy is wasted)

Look, if you have a turbo fan engine with higher before-the-turbine temperature and lower temperature after, the heated air will be more pressurised, energy will be converted more from heat into air pressure and hence the thrust will be greater.

Hope that helps.

 

[Deino]

Allegedly a J-16 of the latest production batch (07 ?) with the new WS-10 engines featuring the slightly modified longer nozzle feathers. I'm a bit surprised on the tail-art!?

Is this a watermark on the tail made by the photographer/poster of that image or is it real?

 

[Akasa]

The latest rumor (March 2021) suggested that a J-16 testbed featuring the AI algorithm Intelligence Victory acting as the copilot in the backseat has been undergoing test flights at SAC.

- from Huitong

 

[Tai Hai Chen]

Are all the Su-30 being upgraded to J-16 standard?

 

[jaybird]

Allegedly a J-16 of the latest production batch (07 ?) with the new WS-10 engines featuring the slightly modified longer nozzle feathers. I'm a bit surprised on the tail-art!?

Is this a watermark on the tail made by the photographer/poster of that image or is it real?

View attachment 723837

The watermark Chinese meaning is AI on the tail of the J-16. I would think the photographer/poster would add their own site or nick name as watermark instead of the word AI in Chinese.

 

[Deino]

The watermark Chinese meaning is AI on the tail of the J-16. I would think the photographer/poster would add their own site or nick name as watermark instead of the word AI in Chinese.

That's what I thought too at first, but it is a real tailart!

(Images via @ 牧是家 from Weibo)

Are all the Su-30 being upgraded to J-16 standard?

In fact none has been upgraded to J-16 standard.