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Figaro

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This kind of thinking is exactly the mistake that set back China's engine programs. The worst thing you can do to engine development is tightly couple it to specific airframes. Engine development lifecycles are generally much longer than airframe cycles, so if an airframe is modified or dropped, the engine is left in limbo. Engine development needs to be as independent as possible and work under the philosophy of "if you build it, they will come."
But he is right though ... why does China need to spend resources on a NK-32 thrust class engine if there is no usage? The engines should always be derived from aircraft needs and in this case, there is no need for some engine like this. It would make no sense to spend hundreds of millions to billions of dollars and multiple years to develop an engine with no use.
 

ZeEa5KPul

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But he is right though ... why does China need to spend resources on a NK-32 thrust class engine if there is no usage? The engines should always be derived from aircraft needs and in this case, there is no need for some engine like this. It would make no sense to spend hundreds of millions to billions of dollars and multiple years to develop an engine with no use.
Oh, I thought he was talking about the experimental RBCC. Yeah, an NK-32 can just be bought from Russia if China decides to go the Tu-160/B-1B route.
 

CAPRICORN-88

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Hit the world in one hour, China's super-combustion ramjet engine has made new progress

2020-09-12

However, including China and the United States and some powerful countries, they still regard hypersonic weapons as important power weapons, and have invested a lot of human and financial resources.

Although
said that in the past, we faced the dilemma of being stuck in many fields, and development was greatly restricted, but this will not easily knock down our country’s scientific researchers. After decades of hard work, we finally broke through the restrictions. After catching up and even surpassing, even the much criticized space engine has made new progress.

01. In order to realize hypersonic fighters, what do you need?
It is well known that all kinds of advanced equipment are indispensable in order to increase national strength. Up to now, there are only a few countries that can truly master the R&D technology of the fifth-generation aircraft, let alone Hypersonic weapons are now available, and the only country that has completed equipping the army is Russia. Just imagine how difficult it is. However, including China and the United States and some powerful countries, they still regard hypersonic weapons as important power weapons, and have invested a lot of human and financial resources. We take the hypersonic fighter as an example. If we want to start development, we must break through the source power barrier. It is the "ultra-high-speed super-combustion ramjet engine."

02. my country has overcome the key problems in one fell swoop
For this reason, my country has begun to invest a lot of resources to develop this technology, and now has made new progress. It is important to know that when a fighter plane is climbing at a high altitude, it needs a lot of power from the engine. Therefore, countries will use an oxidant to complete it. The scramjet is different. It can obtain oxygen from the air by itself, thereby providing Fighters provide a steady stream of power, which not only saves weight, but also generates more powerful thrust than before, even four times higher than the rocket.

The relevant person in charge of the project revealed that my country’s scramjet has successfully completed the hydrogen-oxygen fuel propulsion experiment and overcomes the key technical problems in one fell swoop, that is, hydrogen fuel can be completed and 3000 meters per second in one hundredth of an eye. The difficulty of the intersection of air can be described as the firewood in a tornado. The realization of this technology not only means that my country's high-energy pulsed wind tunnel can be put into use from now on, to provide support for the future development of aircraft, but also to truly achieve the grand goal of flying to the world in one hour. This hydrogen-oxygen fuel that can reach a flight speed of Mach 10 Propellers provide technical conditions for my country's research and development of ultra-high-speed scramjets. Perhaps the future hypersonic fighters will no longer be a dream.

03. American experts frankly said: We are already behind
Facing my country’s breakthroughs in scramjet engines, American experts admitted frankly: The United States is indeed one step behind. Once China completes the installation in the future, it will strengthen the military's combat power to a certain extent. Whether it is strike or reconnaissance capabilities, disruptive changes will occur. It can be said that hypersonic aircraft is a major trend in future development, and it is the direction that all countries will work towards. As long as the speed exceeds Mach 10, it can achieve any goal of hitting the world in one hour.
We have heard about this project for ages.
Thanks for the update.
 

samsara

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Henri Kenhmann at East Pendulum on 2020.09.21:

An RBCC engine with #scramjet - co-developed by CALT, AALPT and NWPU - successfully completed its maiden flight to the Gobi Desert.

The machine could be recovered and it is intact. According to its manufacturer, the data shows that the engine performed better than expected.

  • RBCC: Rocket-Based Combined Cycle
  • scramjet: supersonic combustion ramjet
  • CALT: China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology
  • AALPT: Academy of Aerospace Liquid Propulsion Technology
  • NWPU: Northwestern Polytechnical University
 

samsara

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Henri Kenhmann at East Pendulum on 2020.09.21:

An RBCC engine with #scramjet - co-developed by CALT, AALPT and NWPU - successfully completed its maiden flight to the Gobi Desert.

The machine could be recovered and it is intact. According to its manufacturer, the data shows that the engine performed better than expected.


  • RBCC: Rocket-Based Combined Cycle
  • scramjet: supersonic combustion ramjet
  • CALT: China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology
  • AALPT: Academy of Aerospace Liquid Propulsion Technology
  • NWPU: Northwestern Polytechnical University
From taxiya's explanation as well as the below link & pics by by78, both at SDF:

Xi'an Aerospace Propulsion Institute of CASC has apparently conducted a successful flight test of a TRRE engine --instead of the widely stated "rocket-based combined cycle (RBCC)" engine earlier-- intended for a single-stage reusable space plane.

西安航天动力研究所:某组合动力发动机首飞成功

Xi'an Aerospace Propulsion Institute of CASC conducted a successful flight test of TRRE engine...jpg

Xi'an Aerospace Propulsion Institute of CASC conducted a successful flight test of TRRE engine...jpg


Corrections:
  • It is 2 stage to space as you can see from the last picture.
  • It is not RBCC (Rocket Based Combined Cycle) which does not have a turbine. There is no RBCC program in China as far as I can gather. Actually RBCC concept was never seriously considered by Chinese according to this paper "Analysis of Key Technologies and Propulsion Performance Research of TRRE Engine" published by 11th Institute in Beijing in 2017.
  • It is almost certain that this tested engine is TRRE (Turbo-aided Rocket-augmented Ram⁃jet Combined Cycle Engine) which is studied above because the test was conducted by the 11th Institute in Xi'an which is the other office of the 11th Institute besides the one in Beijing. The same developer , the same program.
Speculation:
It was said in the article that you posted

2020年金秋清晨,位于我国西北的某靶场上,伴随着巨大的响声,一支穿云箭划破宁静,缕缕白烟在蓝天与黄沙的映衬下分外惹眼,仿佛架起天与地连接的桥梁。
The bold texts indicated that the engine or test craft was launched by a rocket. This indicates that the engine was only tested in the Ramjet->Rocket Inducted transition->Scramjet regime, excluding the turbine powered phase (Ma 1 to 2). It means that they have not built a flyable air-frame with autonomous flight control system that could enable taking off horizontally from a runway. That should be the next milestone for use to watch.

Connecting the dots:
  • The spacecraft (spaceplane) launched days ago was the 2nd stage of the combo in the 2nd picture above. It uses rocket engine to enter Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) after departing from the carrier aircraft.
  • The newly tested engine is to be used by the 1st stage carrier aircraft in the 3rd step.
  • Now we are beginning to see the puzzles being put together.

Note: the research team looks so young! Amazing! :enjoy:
 
Last edited:

Grandy

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China's combined engine is ahead of the United States, and the three power modes have the significance of subverting the era

2020-09-27 15:48:08

The major countries in the world are all developing "combined engines" and want to combine different types of engines. The characteristic of this engine is that it can adapt to the needs of various airspaces, and it can fly at low altitudes, fly at high altitudes, and even fly in space. Its application range is very broad. According to the latest information, there is good news from China's Xi'an Aerospace Propulsion Research Institute. The domestically-made "combined engine" developed by the institute has successfully passed the test and achieved excellent results.

It is understood that during the test, the “combined engine” of Xi’an Aerospace Propulsion Research Institute completed a 600-second test run, which set a new record in history. You should know that the same type of products tested in the United States have only been tested for 200 seconds. This means that China has come to the front of the United States in the field of "combined engines". According to a domestic media report on September 26, the "combined engine" developed by Xi'an Aerospace Propulsion Research Institute also has three power modes, which combine turbojet engine technology, super combustion engine technology, and rocket engine technology. The meaning of the times.

Conventional "combined engines" generally only use two engine technologies, because it is easier to study. For example, the "combined engine" developed in the United States uses a combination of a turbofan engine and a turbojet engine, which allows the engine to perform better conversion between subsonic and supersonic speeds. Compared with China's "combined engine", the American "combined engine" is undoubtedly much simpler.

The "combined engine" developed by China is actually more like a future technology product, which will be mainly applied to aerospace aircraft. Everyone knows that conventional turbojet engines and turbofan engines can only fly at an altitude of 25 to 30 kilometers. The transcendent ramjet is mainly flying at altitudes of 50 kilometers to 60 kilometers. Once the "near space" (100 kilometers) is exceeded, turbojet engines, turbofan engines, and transcendent ramjet engines have to stop and cannot continue to fly, because these three engines require oxygen during flight, and space There is no oxygen.

If you want to continue flying in space, you have to use a rocket engine. The "combined engine" developed by China combines turbojet engine technology, super combustion engine technology, and rocket engine technology, which means it can be from the ground Fly all the way to space, soar freely in the atmosphere and space. In today's world, there is no engine that can achieve this. The "combined engine" developed by China can be said to have created a historical precedent.
 

samsara

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From taxiya's explanation as well as the below link & pics by by78, both at SDF:

Xi'an Aerospace Propulsion Institute of CASC has apparently conducted a successful flight test of a TRRE engine --instead of the widely stated "rocket-based combined cycle (RBCC)" engine earlier-- intended for a single-stage reusable space plane.

西安航天动力研究所:某组合动力发动机首飞成功

View attachment 672843
View attachment 672842

Corrections:
  • It is 2 stage to space as you can see from the last picture.
  • It is not RBCC (Rocket Based Combined Cycle) which does not have a turbine. There is no RBCC program in China as far as I can gather. Actually RBCC concept was never seriously considered by Chinese according to this paper "Analysis of Key Technologies and Propulsion Performance Research of TRRE Engine" published by 11th Institute in Beijing in 2017.
  • It is almost certain that this tested engine is TRRE (Turbo-aided Rocket-augmented Ram⁃jet Combined Cycle Engine) which is studied above because the test was conducted by the 11th Institute in Xi'an which is the other office of the 11th Institute besides the one in Beijing. The same developer , the same program.
Speculation:
It was said in the article that you posted



The bold texts indicated that the engine or test craft was launched by a rocket. This indicates that the engine was only tested in the Ramjet->Rocket Inducted transition->Scramjet regime, excluding the turbine powered phase (Ma 1 to 2). It means that they have not built a flyable air-frame with autonomous flight control system that could enable taking off horizontally from a runway. That should be the next milestone for use to watch.

Connecting the dots:
  • The spacecraft (spaceplane) launched days ago was the 2nd stage of the combo in the 2nd picture above. It uses rocket engine to enter Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) after departing from the carrier aircraft.
  • The newly tested engine is to be used by the 1st stage carrier aircraft in the 3rd step.
  • Now we are beginning to see the puzzles being put together.

Note: the research team looks so young! Amazing! :enjoy:
SOME CORRECTIONS

Taxiya /SDF made some corrections to his earlier information:

The TRRE proposal was done by the 31st Institute in Beijing, which is a member of CASIC (China Aerospace Science & Industry Corporation Limited).

The 11th Institute in Beijing is on the other hand a member of CASC (China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation), it has its counterpart in Xi'an who got involved in the test.

Whether the tested engine is RBCC (Rocket Based Combined Cycle) or TRRE (Turbo-aided Rocket-augmented Ramjet combined cycle engine) is unclear, although RBCC was never heard in open channel, it could be that CASC did an extremely good job in keeping secret.

Another member there, Hitchhiker, provided another link in Chinese media discussing more in depth background of this flight test:

“组合动力”试飞成功,为什么“送人上天”这么激动? - 哔哩哔哩
The "Combined power" flight test was successful. Why is "sending people to fly to the sky (space)" so excited?

It is called TRRE by the developer. A screenshot of this publication:
"Analysis of Key Technologies and Propulsion Performance Research of TRRE Engine"

TRRE Engine publication in 2017 - screenshot-1 .png
 
Last edited:

siegecrossbow

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hypocrite better present better arguments that you lack, your childish theories that C919 is testing western equipment to make it more appealing, ARJ-21 is a total utter failure that will make any passenger worry to get into a Chinese airliner, China still is behind in aeroengines but a good hypocrite says excuses why you bought 1000 Al-31s and you continue buying Russian engines either for Y-20 or Su-35. and your blindness and ignorance why a single engine fighter needs a very reliable engine, so the Chinese engineers are not stupid they went for ws-10 for J-11 and al-31 for J-10 only a fool like you make stupid theories they bought it for Charity hypocrite!
Lol.

 

Figaro

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Lol.

Isn't this the same guy as B787 who incessantly trolled SDF a few years ago?
 

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