• Tuesday, June 25, 2019

Chinese 6x6 SM4 120mm self-propelled mortar for Algerian army

Discussion in 'Land Warfare' started by Jyotish Kailashkumar, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Jyotish Kailashkumar

    Jyotish Kailashkumar SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,438
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2018
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,720 / -6
    Country:
    Suriname
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Chinese 6x6 SM4 120mm self-propelled mortar for Algerian army

    10 JANUARY 2019

    A video released by the Algerian ministry of Defense showed a large military exercise in which Chinese 6x6 SM4 120mm self-propelled mortars appeared. The purchase of these vehicles was not advertised, hence the lack of details known about the number of vehicles bought and the date at which they entered in service, as well as the user units.

    [​IMG]
    NORINCO SM4 self-propelled mortar displayed at Airshow China 2018 in Zhuhai

    NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation) had chosen IDEAS 2014 exhibition, which was held from 1st to 4th of December in Karachi, Pakistan, to unveil its SM4 120mm self-propelled mortar.

    Mounted on the chassis of the WMZ551 6x6 armored vehicle, the SM4 is a self-propelled mortar system capable of firing HE, pre-fragmented HE, cargo and rocket-assisted HE shells, etc. The SM4 self-propelled mortar serves as the main equipment of batteries affiliated to light mechanized infantry battalions. Its maximum firing range varies from 7,500 to 13,000 meters, depending on the ammunitions type. The SM4 is equipped with a ballistic computer that calculates gun setting data, assists the gunner in firing, stores and processes various data and commands to improve operational effectiveness. The SM4 features manual muzzle loading and anti-recoil mechanism. Two firing modes are available: pull action fuse and impact action fuse. Capable to carry up to 30 complete rounds, the SM4 has a max. rate of fire of 12 to 15 rounds per minute.

    A 12.7mm MG as defensive armament is mounted on the vehicle for defensive purposes. High running speed (max. on-road speed of 100 km/h), excellent cross-country performance and great maneuverability allow the SM4 to avoid counter-battery fire.

    Crew comfort is ensured by air conditioning and comfortable interior, plus a top fiatch that can be opened and closed hydraulically to achieve better concealment and battlefield survivability.

    https://www.armyrecognition.com/jan..._self-propelled_mortar_for_algerian_army.html
     
  2. Foxtrot Delta

    Foxtrot Delta SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,595
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1 / 3,834 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    China
    I wonder about its accuracy vs speed.
     
  3. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    15,370
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Ratings:
    +6 / 37,346 / -38
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    Speed and accuracy shall not be a problem but more of range. Even at max 13km, its not very ideal butthe high rate of fire and its simplicity compensate all.
     
  4. Foxtrot Delta

    Foxtrot Delta SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,595
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1 / 3,834 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    China
    I dont think mortars need to he more than 10 km. 10 km + is an insane range for mortars.
     
  5. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    15,370
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Ratings:
    +6 / 37,346 / -38
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    When mortar vs SPG, you will lament for more range.
     
  6. jhungary

    jhungary MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    10,358
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Ratings:
    +323 / 10,459 / -5
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    Australia
    lol, it wasn't used in that sense. If you have a Mobile Mortar carrier against a SPG, you are going to be a dead meat.

    Mobile Mortar is not a new concept, they came from WW2 because we want to be able to quick deploy our mortar squad and avoid counter battery fire. However, it stays with infantry support role because of the 120mm mortar power. I don't think you can plunge a hole on a SPG with your mortar even if you can hit them. a 120mm mortar shell will probably just bounce off the armour of the SPG.
     
  7. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    15,370
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Ratings:
    +6 / 37,346 / -38
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    You really think in an idea warfare , if particular weapom will match its peer and has a proper dual? A MBT will definitely meet a MBT for a warfare? You make full use of whatver u have in a war. Be it out gun or out armour. Sure SPG is far superior but what happen u dont have one?

    SPG has limited armour, their top armour is not even gonna protect against a 84mm mortar rds. Not to mention a 120mm rd. Even a MBT top armour is not gonna save you from a 120mm shell.

    Mobile mortar has low logistic, high rate of fire, cheap and high mobility. They maybe outgun by SPG but in a warfare. You just need to use whatever weapon of its advantage to its maximum level.
     
  8. jhungary

    jhungary MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    10,358
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Ratings:
    +323 / 10,459 / -5
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    Australia
    You do know the different between a Mortar Round and a Artillery Round, right? And the explosive it have inside? And have you actually handled a mortar round before?

    This is a mortar round.

    25878004156179746.gif

    Weight about 13Kg and you can sit it on a table and it won't collapse

    This is a 120mm HEAT tank shell

    120mm_at_01.jpg

    Depending on country of origin, it weight anywhere between 25 to 30kg.....

    Also, mortar is designed as a sub-sonic munition (hence low muzzle velocity), which is why you will hear it coming, they are designed to explode and shower the area with shrapnel (or what in the army was referred to as Shrapnel kills), and tank/artillery round are designed to be supersonic penetrator, which designed to kill armour with high initial KE....

    And no, if you splash a 120mm mortar on a semi-armoured AFV/SPC, it will just bounce off, and I personally have done it myself, so I know...
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    15,370
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Ratings:
    +6 / 37,346 / -38
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    Fancy you used a tank rd to illustrate vs mortar rds. Tank rds has chemical charges to propel to its target which makes it looks bigger but the explosive is the same. Tank gun is design to maximise gun velocity when the shell exit the barrel while mortar dont. Both has totally different approach to destroy their enemies. Tank is used as direct fire to engage enemies on front and on the move. MBT are heavily armour not on all sides but on the front arc and side if not it will weight 100tons. The back and top of a MBT is the weakest.

    Mortar is design to attack on stationery enemies on top becos it has not little chemical to propel and is instead fuse to ignite and follow a ballistic pave to hit the enemies. That is why a mortar rds appear smaller but is equally explosive with the same callibre compare to others. An immobilise tank greatest fear is always a mortar ready to zero on it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  10. jhungary

    jhungary MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    10,358
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Ratings:
    +323 / 10,459 / -5
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    Australia
    Dude, the penetration of armour is very much depends on the initial velocity (or muzzle energy) of the projectile. The lower the initial muzzle energy, the lower capability of any armoured penetration. The only common thing between a 120mm tank shell and 120mm mortar shell is that both have a 120mm diameter. That's it, tank and artillery shell because of the gunpowder propellant, they shoot high velocity round, which mean they have a lot of muzzle energy. Where the 120mm mortar round shoot static (non-propelled) high explosive round, which have a very low muzzle energy.

    It doesn't matter what is the calibre of the weapon, a mortar shell is designed to engage when it spill shrapnel outside the target, and it basically rain shrapnel. You don't have enough muzzle energy to penetrate a soft top, let alone partially armoured vehicle, let alone tank, as you claimed.

    You can fire a 120mm mortar on an "immobilized tank" all day, it won't do anything.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    15,370
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Ratings:
    +6 / 37,346 / -38
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    China
    120 mm Mortar can easily penetrate a tank top becos it's top part armour is very thin. All it take is one hit to knock it out. Mortar are sometimes used explosive to penetrate barrack and housing. Not all mortar rds are Sharpenel. In fact , most mortar rds are HE.
     
  12. jhungary

    jhungary MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    10,358
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Ratings:
    +323 / 10,459 / -5
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    Australia
    lol it cannot. As I said before, I have mortar shot at me inside Bradley before. and Bradley is not even remotely the same class in armour as a tank.

    Even tho the armour is thin on top turret, you are still looking at 40 to 50mm armour in slope, it will take more than a 120mm HE mortar round with almost 0 muzzle energy to penetrate, you may as well line a 1 lb C-4 on the top. It wouldn't go thru.

    The key to penetrate armour is kinetic energy, and mortar have little, it won't penetrate any armoured vehicle.
     
  13. Rafi

    Rafi ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    9,479
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Ratings:
    +14 / 12,554 / -3
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Mortar was designed to attack trenches in the first world War, as artillery had a trajectory that prevented direct targeting.

    Mortar is purely an infantry support weapon, it does not have the penetrative power to target other than lightly armoured vehicles.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. jhungary

    jhungary MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    10,358
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Ratings:
    +323 / 10,459 / -5
    Country:
    China
    Location:
    Australia
    lol, that was my point...…..
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1