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China's 'nastier Rise' Will Affect Those Cheering America's Decline: South Asian Expert

beijingwalker

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It is bang for the buck to move factories out of China to Vietnam and Latin America. You weaken China and increase your hold on Vietnam and Latin America
You are all talk, very few companies plan to leave China cause China is the single biggest market, but US economy is declining fast registering the record high deficit in the whole history, China's economy keeps rising desptie the coronavirus.
 

nahtanbob

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You are all talk, very few companies plan to leave China cause China is the single biggest market, but US economy is declining fast registering the record high deficit in the whole history, China's economy keeps rising desptie the coronavirus.
There is a difference between that and moving factories to other countries
 

beijingwalker

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There is a difference between that and moving factories to other countries
How many moved? how come China's industrial output still rises fast? For the first time China has to import steel, China's own steel production is already 60% of the world total.
China's August industrial output grows 5.6%
China's industrial engine gathers speed, consumers open wallets in boost to recovery
 

FuturePAF

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you conveniently deleted one of my sentences
" All USA has to do is to remind India who is propping Pakistan. "
I just hit quote and then reply to the post that was available at the time. Maybe you added that afterwords.

Either way, both India and the US know who is supporting Pakistan. It’s no secret.

The point is, India and Pakistan lose from a conflict and the build up towards it. Indian boasts about all its imported weapons, but it doesn’t solve the fundamental need for India to feel secure, and bring prosperity to its people.

India is being used as a pawn in greater power competition, it can’t expect to get the economic benefits Europe did in the Cold War buildup. China is strong because it received ToT across the entire industrial manufacturing spectrum and the technical training to produce at the cheapest prices possible.

It’s not reasonable to assume the US will do the same for India as the mood has changed towards outsourcing Post-Trump. Secondly, the technical training to staff these factories are another competitive advantage China posses. Finally, China has been acquiring technology and know how, and turning around to export its own products.

If the US Props up India, and India steals market share from US companies it will have only itself to blame. Even the tide is turning against US companies bringing in H-1B workers and exporting IT/technical jobs to companies in India, with the high unemployment rates here in the US.
 

Ghost Hobbit

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Your Indian media will never tell you, China is already the country boasts most patent filings by a large margin in the world.
I had no doubt that you will come up with this. Patents can be filed for all kinds of fluff so quantity means little. Did you know there is a patent for the design of coca cola bottle? There is a patent for rectangular shape of apple iphone? The question is how much has it resulted in the kind of world beating lead products of the sort that america has produced. Like Google and Twitter- original concepts that changed the world. COpying google as Beidu doesn't work.
Alibaba did make some good management innovations. Tiktok did, in the way it used AI for content distribution. But now that it's being organ harvested, you have lost your one lead in making a global splash with a truly original product.
You are all talk, very few companies plan to leave China cause China is the single biggest market, but US economy is declining fast registering the record high deficit in the whole history, China's economy keeps rising desptie the coronavirus.
china is single biggest market how? Both populaiton numbers and growth have started slipping.
 

beijingwalker

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I had no doubt that you will come up with this. Patents can be filed for all kinds of fluff so quantity means little. Did you know there is a patent for the design of coca cola bottle? There is a patent for rectangular shape of apple iphone? The question is how much has it resulted in the kind of world beating lead products of the sort that america has produced. Like Google and Twitter- original concepts that changed the world. COpying google as Beidu doesn't work.
Alibaba did make some good management innovations. Tiktok did, in the way it used AI for content distribution. But now that it's being organ harvested, you have lost your one lead in making a global splash with a truly original product.
China and US is having a tech war all cross the board, 5G, AI, fastest computer, space technology..., If China is your India, why US is so worried of losing a future tech war to China?
 

Ghost Hobbit

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China and US is having a tech war all cross the board, 5G, AI, fastest computer, space technology..., If China is your India, why US is so worried of losing a future tech war to China?
No...there's no such war bro. US is pissed because you're supposed to be winning 'war' with US tech. If you develop a tech and someone steals it, you'll obviously try to screw him.
 

beijingwalker

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china is single biggest market how? Both populaiton numbers and growth have started slipping.
China has a burdreoning middle class and in near future will be the single biggest consumer market, no companies can ignore China's market, that's why you see almost no US firms planning to leave China.
No...there's no such war bro. US is pissed because you're supposed to be winning 'war' with US tech. If you develop a tech and someone steals it, you'll obviously try to screw him.
So many reports about China US tech war, check them out yourself.

 

nahtanbob

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I just hit quote and then reply to the post that was available at the time. Maybe you added that afterwords.

Either way, both India and the US know who is supporting Pakistan. It’s no secret.

The point is, India and Pakistan lose from a conflict and the build up towards it. Indian boasts about all its imported weapons, but it doesn’t solve the fundamental need for India to feel secure, and bring prosperity to its people.

India is being used as a pawn in greater power competition, it can’t expect to get the economic benefits Europe did in the Cold War buildup. China is strong because it received ToT across the entire industrial manufacturing spectrum and the technical training to produce at the cheapest prices possible.

It’s not reasonable to assume the US will do the same for India as the mood has changed towards outsourcing Post-Trump. Secondly, the technical training to staff these factories are another competitive advantage China posses. Finally, China has been acquiring technology and know how, and turning around to export its own products.

If the US Props up India, and India steals market share from US companies it will have only itself to blame. Even the tide is turning against US companies bringing in H-1B workers and exporting IT/technical jobs to companies in India, with the high unemployment rates here in the US.
China is proping up Pakistan. It is hard for China to maintain good relations with both India/Pakistan

If the anger at H-1b/outsourcing is high, the anger against China is 10x. After all Trump started a trade war with China not India.

USA can transfer enough technology to India to allow India to replace imported Chinese products with Indian made products. They can transfer limited amounts of military technology and sell weapons. At the end of the day India's economic problems require internal solutions from Indian citizens
 

Ghost Hobbit

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China has a burdreoning middle class and in near future will be the single biggest consumer market, no companies can ignore China's market, that's why you see almost no US firms planning to leave China.
sorry but that's more bullcrap. Which country in history has become 'greatest' by servicing internal market? US because pre-eminent because people around the world want to buy their products. Nike, Reebok, Apple...the list in endless. You have not shown anywehre close to the creativity that they have shown.- I use my words carefully. I don't say you are not capable only that your society has not shown the creativity and innovation they have. You have brands that compete on price. But give a CEO a choice between an iPhone and a Mi...the choice is obvious.
 

beijingwalker

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sorry but that's more bullcrap. Which country in history has become 'greatest' by servicing internal market? US because pre-eminent because people around the world want to buy their products. Nike, Reebok, Apple...the list in endless. You have not shown anywehre close to the creativity that they have shown.- I use my words carefully. I don't say you are not capable only that your society has not shown the creativity and innovation they have. You have brands that compete on price. But give a CEO a choice between an iPhone and a Mi...the choice is obvious.
China’s geopolitics are pumped up by its economic success
Beijing’s increased assertiveness abroad is only to be expected, and more is coming
GRAHAM ALLISON


President Xi Jinping put it pointedly in 2017: 'It is time for us to take centre stage in the world' © Wu Hong/EPA/Shutterstock

Graham Allison
OCTOBER 4 2020

When China’s top leaders met in August to review the year and assess the challenges ahead, they took satisfaction in their nation’s success compared to the floundering performance of the US and Europe in dealing with coronavirus.

In President Xi Jinping’s bottom line: China had “fully demonstrated the clear superiority of Communist party leadership and our socialist system”. After the 2008 financial crisis, China emerged as a major geopolitical force, advancing its values and interests. Today, as we see a second great economic divergence, we should expect more profound geopolitical consequences.

Official numbers for the first half of 2020 are already in. The world economy is shrinking. Every major nation is on track to have a smaller economy by the end of the year — with one exception, China. This brute fact is hard to ignore. Furthermore, we have seen this all before. After 2008, China weathered the storm, its economy growing in every quarter. In the decade that followed,

China accounted for one-third of all global economic growth.
As its economy soared, approaching parity with the US, Beijing’s sense that the nation deserved a louder voice in the world rose proportionately. Former leader Deng Xiaoping’s “hide and bide” invisibility cloak was discarded dramatically.

In a confrontation with former US secretary of state Hillary Clinton in 2010, China’s then foreign minister Yang Jiechi famously told her and several senior south east Asian officials also present: “China is a big country, and other countries are small countries, and that is just a fact.” Mr Xi put it even more pointedly in 2017: “It is time for us to take centre stage in the world.”

China proclaimed a “nine-dash line” in the South China Sea in 2009, claiming ownership of 90 per cent of the waters in this long-disputed area. In the years since, it has been constructing new islands on existing reefs and converting them to military bases. Investment in military and intelligence agencies has also accelerated to build a force that, in Mr Xi’s mandate to them, can “fight and win”.

And Beijing launched the $1tn Belt and Road Initiative to build transportation and communication infrastructure from China’s heartland to Rotterdam thereby, as Henry Kissinger noted, “shifting the world’s centre of gravity from the Atlantic to the Pacific”. While many observers were initially startled by what they labelled China’s “new assertiveness”, escalating ambitions are quite normal in the history of relative power shifts among great nations.

Gross domestic product is not everything. But it forms the substructure of power in international relations. It funds a nation’s military and intelligence capabilities, technical reach, and economic capacity to affect other nations through imports, exports, investment and cheap loans or grants. In recent months there has been a significant increase in the tempo of Chinese military operations in both the South and East China seas, more aggressive confrontation with India over disputed borders and more active foreign ministry “wolf warriors” seeking to punish opponents in target countries.

Beijing has also moved decisively to impose its national security law on Hong Kong and strangle the territory’s drive towards democracy. And during the first chapter of a pandemic, China displaced the US from its usual role as helper to distressed nations by becoming the world’s supplier of face masks and protective equipment.

Predictably, these actions have triggered pushback. They have fuelled rising hostility towards China in the US, where both presidential candidates have called for versions of “decoupling”.

Yet Chinese leaders continue to bet that the gravitational pull of their growing economy will prove irresistible to key companies and countries. If we examine actions rather than words, Beijing is winning that wager. Those companies voting with their money, such as US financial services firms BlackRock, Vanguard and JPMorgan, have all increased their presence in China recently. Apple, despite some expansion in India, has also made little change to its dependence on China as its primary manufacturer and assembler of smartphones.

A recent survey of US companies with major operations in China found that just 4 per cent were relocating production back to the US. As the US and Europe struggle to contain coronavirus, get their economies back to growth and manage internal political divisions, expect an emboldened China to become ever more challenging on the world stage.
 

Ghost Hobbit

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China’s geopolitics are pumped up by its economic success
Beijing’s increased assertiveness abroad is only to be expected, and more is coming
GRAHAM ALLISON


President Xi Jinping put it pointedly in 2017: 'It is time for us to take centre stage in the world' © Wu Hong/EPA/Shutterstock

Graham Allison
OCTOBER 4 2020

When China’s top leaders met in August to review the year and assess the challenges ahead, they took satisfaction in their nation’s success compared to the floundering performance of the US and Europe in dealing with coronavirus.

In President Xi Jinping’s bottom line: China had “fully demonstrated the clear superiority of Communist party leadership and our socialist system”. After the 2008 financial crisis, China emerged as a major geopolitical force, advancing its values and interests. Today, as we see a second great economic divergence, we should expect more profound geopolitical consequences.

Official numbers for the first half of 2020 are already in. The world economy is shrinking. Every major nation is on track to have a smaller economy by the end of the year — with one exception, China. This brute fact is hard to ignore. Furthermore, we have seen this all before. After 2008, China weathered the storm, its economy growing in every quarter. In the decade that followed,

China accounted for one-third of all global economic growth.
As its economy soared, approaching parity with the US, Beijing’s sense that the nation deserved a louder voice in the world rose proportionately. Former leader Deng Xiaoping’s “hide and bide” invisibility cloak was discarded dramatically.

In a confrontation with former US secretary of state Hillary Clinton in 2010, China’s then foreign minister Yang Jiechi famously told her and several senior south east Asian officials also present: “China is a big country, and other countries are small countries, and that is just a fact.” Mr Xi put it even more pointedly in 2017: “It is time for us to take centre stage in the world.”

China proclaimed a “nine-dash line” in the South China Sea in 2009, claiming ownership of 90 per cent of the waters in this long-disputed area. In the years since, it has been constructing new islands on existing reefs and converting them to military bases. Investment in military and intelligence agencies has also accelerated to build a force that, in Mr Xi’s mandate to them, can “fight and win”.

And Beijing launched the $1tn Belt and Road Initiative to build transportation and communication infrastructure from China’s heartland to Rotterdam thereby, as Henry Kissinger noted, “shifting the world’s centre of gravity from the Atlantic to the Pacific”. While many observers were initially startled by what they labelled China’s “new assertiveness”, escalating ambitions are quite normal in the history of relative power shifts among great nations.

Gross domestic product is not everything. But it forms the substructure of power in international relations. It funds a nation’s military and intelligence capabilities, technical reach, and economic capacity to affect other nations through imports, exports, investment and cheap loans or grants. In recent months there has been a significant increase in the tempo of Chinese military operations in both the South and East China seas, more aggressive confrontation with India over disputed borders and more active foreign ministry “wolf warriors” seeking to punish opponents in target countries.

Beijing has also moved decisively to impose its national security law on Hong Kong and strangle the territory’s drive towards democracy. And during the first chapter of a pandemic, China displaced the US from its usual role as helper to distressed nations by becoming the world’s supplier of face masks and protective equipment.

Predictably, these actions have triggered pushback. They have fuelled rising hostility towards China in the US, where both presidential candidates have called for versions of “decoupling”.

Yet Chinese leaders continue to bet that the gravitational pull of their growing economy will prove irresistible to key companies and countries. If we examine actions rather than words, Beijing is winning that wager. Those companies voting with their money, such as US financial services firms BlackRock, Vanguard and JPMorgan, have all increased their presence in China recently. Apple, despite some expansion in India, has also made little change to its dependence on China as its primary manufacturer and assembler of smartphones.

A recent survey of US companies with major operations in China found that just 4 per cent were relocating production back to the US. As the US and Europe struggle to contain coronavirus, get their economies back to growth and manage internal political divisions, expect an emboldened China to become ever more challenging on the world stage.
Yeah I'm sorry bro you can keep pasting all the articles you want but your growth is slipping predictably with rising incomes.

and this just proves my point- American companies will continue to make money off chinese people

US financial services firms BlackRock, Vanguard and JPMorgan, have all increased their presence in China recently. Apple, despite some expansion in India, has also made little change to its dependence on China as its primary manufacturer and assembler of smartphones.
 

IceCold

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If India joins China Pakistan has to join USA
Even if India joins china of which happening is almost impossible, why would Pakistan join the US? Or the Chinese would become hostile to Pakistan laying their billions to waste? Pakistan even when considered firmly in the Chinese camp, maintains its relations with US. That is not going to change anytime soon Unless US does something exceptionally stupid.
 

beijingwalker

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Yeah I'm sorry bro you can keep pasting all the articles you want but your growth is slipping predictably with rising incomes.

and this just proves my point- American companies will continue to make money off chinese people

US financial services firms BlackRock, Vanguard and JPMorgan, have all increased their presence in China recently. Apple, despite some expansion in India, has also made little change to its dependence on China as its primary manufacturer and assembler of smartphones.
We'll see, China is still rising fast and US same speed but declining, we'll see where China and US will be at in the next 5-10 years, Indian cheerleaders don't have to be so eager to make Indian style predictions now, lol..
 

Leishangthem

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No European country or Anglo origin country will go into the Chinese orbit. But the world is lot larger then what is called "West". Particularly as we move forward rest of the globe is rising and the centre of economic activity has shifted from the Atlantic eastwards.

People forget over the period 1600-1900 the greatest increase in population was in Europe and regions of European settlement like Americas/Australia etc. Thus by 1900 the % of global population had heavily skewed towards regions we call the "West" today. However since 1950 there is correction taking place. The south and east has seen and will see most of the population increase thus making impact on the global economy and order.

It is this dynamic the Chinese will ride to gain ascendancy much as USA relied on the European apogee to place itself as the superpower with NATO being the foundation of this. USA was able to do this because unlike other aspirants like Germany, France or even UK it had at least four times greater population. With China we must take into account that it is about four times more populous then USA. Frankly it does not need loads to satellites to aggregate around itself to cast a global shadow. Even by itself it is huge.
Trust me for variety of reasons, some civilizational, some racism China will never dislodge USA from most of Europe.
The "swing states" are in Africa, Asia, Middle East, South America to a degree. In Europe the best China can do is mitigate or placate US influence. However I can't see China ever gaining most of Europe for reasons described earlier.

The caveat being unless USA suffers from catastrophic economic implosion which I doubt it will. It will always remain a significant economic power.
China can absolutely win over Europe,and the fact that they are non-white might just help the cause, as the oriental aspects makes a more exotic appeal,more appealing than their neighbors that they have some old qualms with,it's human psychology to wish a stranger do well than your close aquaintance;but for all that to happen of course china has to grow more exponentially both in hard power and soft power ,all on the backdrop of a decaying west. Yellow/white there's not really stark difference in skin color,it's for simple reference,look at bts,it is the pop act with the largest fan following in the west,they effuse more appeal on western masses than their own kin. Their appeal has only been exacerbated by them being east asian.
East Asia has special soft power,japan & korea are so tiny East asian nation in comparison yet they have an overwhelming soft power in an English based anglicized world .

In future ,when china flaunts their overwhelming superiority in wealth,tech and various from of softpower ,Europe will be no exception,that's plain ol human nature.

USA will prop up India moving factories from China to India. They can supply weapons to deter Chinese military actions
? Why would US do that?to be more precise,,why would US corporates do that?
No country in the world can match china in speed and efficiency.

And on that merit,India would probably in the bottom tier.

American firms need chinese manufacturing prowess to keep their surplus net +ve gain rate
Losing chinese manufacturers means effeciency & quality decline for US firms,which could have a disastrous effect down the line and lose competitiveness.

Indian workers don't have the professionalism,IQ ,work ethic nor India has the infrastructure to support the US manufacturing, seamlessly like china does.US makes huge wealth from chinese manufacturing,the so-called trade imbalance is the result of US firms producing in china and shipping it back to US for huge profit margin for the US firms.

The only less demanding and lower end manufacturing can leave china,and when they leave they would likely go to vietnam,malaysia,indonesia not INDIA. India can mostly have India aimed manufacturing base,which is good for India's self reliance atleast.
 
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