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China’s fourth 13,000 tonnes Type 055 destroyer to enter service next month, sources say

Shotgunner51

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VLS upgrade would be the most important as well as secure encrypted Comms, I assume
Yes, VLS of 052C is very limited in flexibility, this class is almost like a sea-based HQ-9 battalion. If a certain task force requires heavy up on theater AD, less demanding on other functions, then 052C is good unit to be added.
 

MH.Yang

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Or they could put them through a refit. They have been refitting much less capable ships into relatively modern vessels, so they can last another decade or two. Why wouldn’t they try to do the same to the Type 052C (VLS upgrade would be the most important as well as secure encrypted Comms, I assume), or at least deploy them to second tier but long range tasks like SLOC protection in the Indian Ocean. A fleet of Type 052C protecting a Ski-Jump carrier would still be a potent force against the Indian navy or any other navy trying to cut a Chinese SLOC.
052C is a standard Aegis ships, it is not bad, but it does not use universal VLS. If it is in Europe, it will be one of the top warships in Europe, it is at the same level as the British 45 class and the French horizon class. Japan Aikizuki class, USA Burke 1D and India Kolkata class are also at the same level.
 
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MH.Yang

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Yes, VLS of 052C is very limited in flexibility, this class is almost like a sea-based HQ-9 battalion. If a certain task force requires heavy up on theater AD, less demanding on other functions, then 052C is good unit to be added.
China has to retire all 6 Type 052C by the 2030s. They need at least 16 Type 055 by then.
The first 052C type (the 170#) was commissioned in 200, Now it has been in service for less than 20 years, how can it be retired.
 

Tai Hai Chen

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The first 052C type (the 170#) was commissioned in 200, Now it has been in service for less than 20 years, how can it be retired.
052D are supposed to phase out 052C in the heavy frigate role, with the destroyer role taken by 055. I think soldiers lives are more important than keeping a few old ships around. Soldiers deserve the best ships, not old junk ships that need to be phased out.
 

dreambear

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052D are supposed to phase out 052C in the heavy frigate role, with the destroyer role taken by 055. I think soldiers lives are more important than keeping a few old ships around. Soldiers deserve the best ships, not old junk ships that need to be phased out.
Yes. China is going to sell six 052C ships to Pakistan at a very low price.
 

Shotgunner51

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The first 052C type (the 170#) was commissioned in 200, Now it has been in service for less than 20 years, how can it be retired.
Exactly
052D are supposed to phase out 052C in the heavy frigate role, with the destroyer role taken by 055. I think soldiers lives are more important than keeping a few old ships around. Soldiers deserve the best ships, not old junk ships that need to be phased out.
There is no more combat role called "heavy destroyer", is theater/fleet AD destroyer, and 052C is almost designed solely for this role, not 055. It's no longer WWI when warships are bigger the better, heavier the better and you bet your entire budget onto one "floating fortress", it looks mega cool in movie but only becomes easy target in the age of missile and network. If the commander a task force say a amphibious ready group, carrier battle group or simply a no-fly zone mission needs to boost his theater/fleet AD, 052C is excellent for him.

Will PLAN sell 052C? Very unlikely, given the tight budget and huge demand for theater AD from so many task fleets.

In PLAN doctrine 054A are for ASW, 055 are for sea-based BMD/ASAT, that means by now only 25 units (active+building) of multi-role 052D are available for theater AD, obviously PLAN has no luxury to let go these 6 units of 052C, perhaps not even the other 11 "older" destroyers.
 
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FuturePAF

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These ships are too expensive for Pakistan to operate.
But the Chinese could deploy them to Djibouti to protect SLOCs and help out Pakistan (by just sailing in between Indian and Pakistani coasts) in the event of a crisis. Similar to what France did during the 2001-2002 Standoff between Pakistan and India. It would elevate the status of China as a peacekeeper in the region without firing a single shot. It would also be good training for the PLAN to observe Indian systems at full operational level and absorb up all the electronic signatures.

When tensions go down, the ships can be pulled back and retasked. Probably to protecting SLOCs from East Africa.
Yes, VLS of 052C is very limited in flexibility, this class is almost like a sea-based HQ-9 battalion. If a certain task force requires heavy up on theater AD, less demanding on other functions, then 052C is good unit to be added.
It good second tier opponents (second tier for China), like the Indian navy.
 

Shotgunner51

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It good second tier opponents (second tier for China), like the Indian navy.
Yes, these 052C will provide theater AD for fleets operating in IOR. Though 052C may lack land attack or deep strike capabilities compared to 052D, but China-India war is primarily launched from the north aka land direction, IOR fleets at best will carry missions on sea lanes or Indian port cities. Moreover sea-based strikes can be launched from 093 SSN or 094 SSBN, so 052C will probably act like fleet escorts. India has very few sats on LEO, 055 can take them out from any convenient location not necessarily in IOR.
 
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GiantPanda

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Nuts. China just upgraded the Sovs and is upgrading the 052Bs. The 052Cs will not be retiring in the next 10 years.
 

FuturePAF

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With the US navy using Indian Facilities on Malabar Island in the Seychellesas well as the Andaman Islands, the Chinese may need more then just a half dozen Type 052C in the IOR.

Quad is aimed at Belt and Road (10:20-10:53)
India will get a pass on CAATSA and the US has shift definitely to India in the Indo-Pak Balance and US basing in the Malabar Islands (12:00-14:08)

Btw, the Indians will probably be based (or could be based) on all those French islands in the IOR, all along Chinese SLOCs.
 

Shotgunner51

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With the US navy using Indian Facilities on Malabar Island in the Seychellesas well as the Andaman Islands, the Chinese may need more then just a half dozen Type 052C in the IOR.

Quad is aimed at Belt and Road (10:20-10:53)
India will get a pass on CAATSA and the US has shift definitely to India in the Indo-Pak Balance and US basing in the Malabar Islands (12:00-14:08)
QUAD is just another group photo session, AUKUS is the real deal and you're right India will serve AUKUS well by letting them use their facilities. You mean CAATSA on India buying S400? Yes of course US will grant their now top lackey a waiver, no surprise at all.

Obviously half a dozen of Type 052C wouldn't be enough for the IOR, these ships' continued service is a testimony to the huge demand for theater AD destroyers within PLAN. Some quick math: Discounting those 055's sea-based BMD mostly locked in the Pacific theater, now PLAN only has 25 Type 052D's and 17 "older" ones that could be used for theater AD, very tight indeed. Say for IOR theater, at the moment I guess only 10~12 DDG's can be deployed on any average day, barely enough for SLOC missions.

Looking forward the situation will hopefully improve. We all know China's defence spend is controlled at below 1.3% of GDP, and budget priorities given to PLASSF, PLARF. Even when it comes down to PLAN, assets of strategic value like 093/095 SSN, 094/096 SSBN, 055 sea-based BMD and such take up lion's share, tactical ships only take second fiddle. PLAN will likely continue to procure more 052D, 054A, 075/076 but total is limited to a few dozens at best, including a few CATOBAR.
 
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FuturePAF

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QUAD is just another group photo session, AUKUS is the real deal and you're right India will serve AUKUS well by letting them use their facilities. You mean CAATSA on S400? Of course US will grant India the now top lackey a waiver, no surprise at all.

Obviously half a dozen of Type 052C wouldn't be enough for the IOR, their continued service is a testimony to the huge demand for theater AD destroyers within PLAN. Discounting those 055's sea-based BMD mostly locked in the Pacific theater, now PLAN only has 25 Type 052D's and 17 "older" ones that could be used for theater AD, very tight indeed. Say for IOR theater, at the moment I guess only 10~15 can be deployed on any average day, barely enough for SLOC mission.

Looking forward the situation will hopefully improve. You know China's defence spend is controlled at below 1.3% of GDP, and budget priorities given to PLASSF, PLARF. Even when it comes to PLAN, assets of strategic value like 093/095 SSN, 094/096 SSBN, 055 sea-based BMD and such take lion's share, tactical ships only take second fiddle. PLAN will likely continue to procure more 052D, 054A, 075/076 but numbers are limited to a few dozens at best, plus a few CATOBAR.
Considering the importance of the SLOCs and all the choke points (as far away as Madagascar straits), the PLAN will need to allocate significantly more to “tactical” ships. They will also need BMD ships before long because AUKUS will probably do what they are doing, via a vi more capable anti-ship systems. So I wouldn’t be surprised if for every 2-3 052C/D/DL deployed, they will deploy a Type 055 and a SSN.

Also, all of the territory and islands India holds they inherited from the British Empire. Officially, places like the Andamans are Indians, but who’s to say that will stay that way.

Does anyone know who “owned” the Andamans before they were a part of the British Empire?
 

Shotgunner51

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Considering the importance of the SLOCs and all the choke points (as far away as Madagascar straits)
Absolutely agree. That's why PLAN setup a base in Djibouti, but more hubs are needed.
2-3 052C/D/DL deployed, they will deploy a Type 055 and a SSN
Well it depends, for a basic SLOC/ASW task force, minimum requirement is 3 Type 054A (to triangulate enemy subs), 2 DDG's for theater air-defence (1 as redundancy backup), plus 1 fast/combat support ship and maybe 1 sub-tenderer.

For an amphibious ready group, minimum 1 075/076, 1 071, 1 LSD, 1 combat support, 2 DDG's (in this case 052D preferred for is land attack capabilities), maybe 1~2 054A for mine countermeasures. But since amphibious ships are usually slow and far less mobile, they only need DDG support when there are missions.

For BMD/ASAT task force, 1 055, 1 fast/combat support ship, 2 DDG's. These should be deployed primarily in positions to intercept Trident II D5 or Minuteman, so more likely in the Pacific theater, but IOR not ruled out.

For the two STOBAR's, each will need at least 2 DDG's for theater air-defence, 3~4 054A for ASW, 1 fast/combat support. I guess when CATOBAR's (003 series) are ready, formation will be slightly bigger.

Subs are different though, primary mission for 093/095 is hunting down enemy SSBN, and they could act in "lone wolf" mode. As for 094/096 SSBN, perhaps may hide under combat radius of a surface fleet, or safe haven near home waters, but that's always unknown.
 
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