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China's Assassin's Mace weaponry

Discussion in 'Chinese Defence Forum' started by Martian2, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Over the years, we've all heard about China's Assassin's Mace asymmetric weaponry. They are designed to neutralize America's superiority in conventional military power. Here is my guess for the list of Assassin's Mace Chinese weaponry.

    1. 16.5 Megaton EMP warhead based on Chinese five-megaton thermonuclear warhead intentionally altered to emit gamma rays. A megaton-class EMP will fuse all of the electrical wiring and electronics of any equipment not protected under a mountain.

    2. ASBM will be used for a limited attack on a specific naval capital ship.

    3. Conventional-powered EMP may provide a more targeted capability against a small area (e.g. naval carrier group).

    4. Shenlong space plane to drop a megaton-class EMP anywhere in the world on short notice. The EMP will blind all above-ground radar stations, fuse communication equipment, and knock-out unprotected enemy aircraft.

    5. Stealth cruise missile. This is an obvious and simpler weapon based on the stealth technology from the manned stealth fighter program.

    6. Supersonic stealth UCAV. A subsonic stealth UCAV has limited capability. Flying slowly leaves it vulnerable to detection and shootdown by a supercruising manned stealth fighter. Therefore, it is reasonable for China to work on a supercruising unmanned stealth fighter. It will shock your opponent and allow the unmanned stealth fighter to pull some incredible Gs.

    7. Thermonuclear-armed torpedo. This is an obvious extension of China's vast array of thermonuclear weaponry. Instead of worrying about the exact location of an enemy sub and its countermeasures (e.g. decoys), a Chinese sub commander only needs to know the approximate location of an enemy and blow it to hell with a thermonuclear-armed torpedo or mine.

    8. Hypersonic missile. The CM-400AKG air-to-ground missile has a terminal speed in excess of Mach 4. China will keep pushing its technology and their missiles should keep increasing in speed into the hypersonic range.
     
  2. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Chinese Shenlong and American X-37B space planes are the ultimate weapons

    A Chinese Shenlong or American X-37B space plane is absolutely vital in fighting and winning a thermonuclear war.

    As an offensive weapon, a space plane can carry a 16.5-megaton EMP to blind enemy radar in a 2,000-mile radius (or 4,000-mile diameter that covers a continent) which renders all missile defense systems useless.

    As a defensive weapon, a space plane is pre-positioned in orbit. When the enemy launches all of their thermonuclear-tipped ballistic missiles, you detonate a 16.5-megaton EMP at a high altitude of 100 miles and use the EMP (ie. electromagnetic pulse) to destroy the guidance systems on all the launched thermonuclear ballistic missiles with 50,000 volts per meter of wiring.

    SLBMs are also ballistic missiles. When you see a salvo coming up, it's time to drop an EMP within a 2,000-mile radius.

    ASATs can't destroy the space planes. A space plane can drop an EMP with a booster down the gravity well faster than an ASAT can rise to reach its target. In short, an EMP can destroy an ASAT and all other above-ground ASATs faster than an ASAT warhead can reach a space plane.

    If you have a fleet of space planes, you're ready to fight and potentially win an all-out thermonuclear war!

    ----------

    Chinese Shenlong and American X-37B space planes are space-based SSBNs

    The military purpose of a Shenlong or X-37B space plane is easily understood by thinking of them as space-based submarines.

    A space plane is sent on a military patrol like a submarine for months at a time. At the end of the patrol, the space plane returns to base. After maintenance or upgrades, the space plane is sent back into space for another patrol.

    A space-based SSBN provides three crucial advantages: surprise, control of the high ground, and overwhelming firepower.

    Upon command, a space plane will unleash its absolutely critical EMP payload(s) in an offensive or defensive strike.
     
  3. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones ELITE MEMBER

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    Any evidence of Chinese having 16.5 Megaton EMP warhead?


    @A1Kaid Here we go again. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    From post #231 in http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...294-megatons-thermonuclear-deterrence-16.html:

    Jane's Defense claims China's DF-21A, JL-1A, and DF-25 have EMP warhead capability

    The following three MissileThreat.com articles on China's DF-21A, JL-1A, and DF-25 ballistic missiles cite Jane's Defense as their primary source of information.

    DF-21/-21A/-21B/-21C/-21D (CSS-5) | Missile Threat

    [​IMG]
    "JL-1 submarine-launched ballistic missile. The DF-21 is very similar in appearance.
    Jane’s Strategic Weapon Systems"

    [​IMG]

    ----------

    JL-1/-1A (CSS-N-3) | Missile Threat

    [​IMG]
    "JL-1 displayed in parade.
    Jane’s Strategic Weapon Systems"

    [​IMG]

    ----------

    DF-25 | Missile Threat

    [​IMG]

    ----------

    Jane's Defense claims China's SY-400 SRBM also has EMP capability

    SY-400 | Missile Threat

    [​IMG]

    ----------

    Nuclear EMP: Examples

    [​IMG]

    ----------

    Simple deduction of China's DF-5 ICBM carrying a 16.5 megaton EMP warhead

    1. China has the world's largest deployed thermonuclear warhead at five megatons on the DF-5 ICBM.

    R-36 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "With the retirement of the 20 megaton SS-18 Mod 6 warheads, the highest yield weapon in service with any nation is the estimated 5 MT Chinese Dong Feng 5 (DF-5) ICBM (CSS-4) warhead."

    2. In 1988, China proved it can build an enhanced radiation weapon by detonating a neutron bomb that emphasizes neutron emissions. Twenty-five years have passed. It is reasonable to believe China can build another type of enhanced radiation weapon; an EMP (ie. electromagnetic pulse) warhead that emphasizes gamma ray radiation.

    Report: China building electromagnetic pulse weapons for use against U.S. carriers - Washington Times

    "Report: China building electromagnetic pulse weapons for use against U.S. carriers
    By Bill Gertz - The Washington Times
    Thursday, July 21, 2011
    ...
    Peter Pry, a former congressional aide who helped direct a commission on EMP several years ago, said the commission found that China plans for nuclear EMP strikes against the United States, as well as Taiwan and carrier forces, are part of its military doctrine and exercises.

    'There is also evidence that China is developing, or has already developed, super-EMP nuclear weapons that generate extraordinarily powerful EMP fields...,' Mr. Pry, president of the group EMPact America, said in an email."

    3. The yield for a nuclear weapon can be magnified by 3.3-fold for an enhanced radiation weapon.

    Nuclear Weapon Design

    "Enhanced Radiation Weapons

    An enhanced radiation (ER) weapon, by special design techniques, has an output in which neutrons and x-rays are made to constitute a substantial portion of the total energy released. For example, a standard fission weapon's total energy output would be partitioned as follows: 50% as blast; 35% as thermal energy; and 15% as nuclear radiation. An ER weapon's total energy would be partitioned as follows: 30% as blast; 20% as thermal; and 50% as nuclear radiation. Thus, a 3-kiloton ER weapon will produce the nuclear radiation of a 10-kiloton fission weapon and the blast and thermal radiation of a 1-kiloton fission device. However, the energy distribution percentages of nuclear weapons are a function of yield."

    Calculation:

    A standard nuclear weapon produces 15% nuclear radiation. An Enhanced Radiation weapon produces 50% nuclear radiation. The multiplicative factor is 3.3 (e.g. 50%/15% = 3.3) for the yield of an Enhanced Radiation weapon over a standard nuclear weapon.

    4. Putting it all together.

    A Chinese DF-5 ICBM typically carries a five megaton thermonuclear warhead. This is overkill for destroying a city. You only need one to three megatons. Therefore, there is a strong likelihood that Chinese DF-5 ICBMs are meant to deliver an EMP over enemy countries.

    Five megaton warhead x 3.3 enhanced radiation design = 16.5 megatons of gamma rays

    In conclusion, I have shown China's DF-5 ICBM can deliver a 16.5 megaton EMP warhead.

    [Note: A Chinese five-megaton thermonuclear warhead on a DF-5 ICBM is itself a five-megaton EMP warhead. However, an enhanced radiation warhead should multiply its effectiveness by 3.3-fold.]
     
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  5. anonymus

    anonymus BANNED

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    A 5 megaton nuke cannot give a yield of 16.5 megaton.

    Probably can't exist
    ASBM's are unproven concept and face practical difficulties.

    does not exist

    Does not exist

    Does not exist

    Does not exist.

    There are some nuclear armed depth charges but no thermonuclear torpedo.Thermonuclear weapons have never been miniaturized enough.


    Does not exist.
     
  6. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Adding 20-kiloton SAM tactical thermonuclear warhead to Assassin's Mace list

    I am adding thermonuclear-armed surface-to-air (SAM) missiles to the list of Chinese Assassin's Mace asymmetric weapons. A 20-kiloton thermonuclear warhead is pretty small compared to China's five megaton DF-5 ICBM strategic warhead. However, a 20-kiloton warhead is still the size of the Hiroshima bomb.

    A F-22 pilot will be knocked out of battle when a Hiroshima-sized explosion occurs within 60 feet of him (e.g. the uncertainty range of VLF-band radar).

    ----------

    Over the years, we've all heard about China's Assassin's Mace asymmetric weaponry. They are designed to neutralize America's superiority in conventional military power. Here is my guess for the list of Assassin's Mace Chinese weaponry.

    1. 16.5 Megaton EMP warhead based on Chinese five-megaton thermonuclear warhead intentionally altered to emit gamma rays. A megaton-class EMP will fuse all of the electrical wiring and electronics of any equipment not protected under a mountain.

    2. ASBM will be used for a limited attack on a specific naval capital ship.

    3. Conventional-powered EMP may provide a more targeted capability against a small area (e.g. naval carrier group).

    4. Shenlong space plane to drop a megaton-class EMP anywhere in the world on short notice. The EMP will blind all above-ground radar stations, fuse communication equipment, and knock-out unprotected enemy aircraft.

    5. Stealth cruise missile. This is an obvious and simpler weapon based on the stealth technology from the manned stealth fighter program.

    6. Supersonic stealth UCAV. A subsonic stealth UCAV has limited capability. Flying slowly leaves it vulnerable to detection and shootdown by a supercruising manned stealth fighter. Therefore, it is reasonable for China to work on a supercruising unmanned stealth fighter. It will shock your opponent and allow the unmanned stealth fighter to pull some incredible Gs.

    7. Thermonuclear-armed torpedo. This is an obvious extension of China's vast array of thermonuclear weaponry. Instead of worrying about the exact location of an enemy sub and its countermeasures (e.g. decoys), a Chinese sub commander only needs to know the approximate location of an enemy and blow it to hell with a thermonuclear-armed torpedo or mine.

    8. Hypersonic missile. The Chinese CM-400AKG air-to-ground missile has a terminal speed in excess of Mach 4. China will keep pushing its technology and their missiles should keep increasing in speed into the hypersonic range.

    9. Thermonuclear-armed SAM. A Chinese HQ-9 SAM (ie. surface-to-air missile) armed with a 20-kiloton tactical warhead can easily knock out a F-22. When Hiroshima explodes next to a F-22 pilot, he's out of the war.

    ----------

    Six methods to destroy a F-22 stealth fighter

    1. A Chinese DF-5 ICBM carrying a 16.5 megaton EMP (ie. electromagnetic pulse) warhead detonates over Japan and Kadena Air Force base is out of action. Furthermore, all F-22s in the air within a 2,000-mile radius will cease to function.

    2. A conventional Chinese EMP warhead that explodes in the vicinity of a F-22. L-band radar will guide the missile to its target. The missile will activate its X-band radar near the F-22. The conventional EMP just needs to detonate in the vicinity of the F-22 to neutralize it.

    3. Put a tactical 20-kiloton thermonuclear warhead on the missile. The Chinese HQ-9 surface-to-air missile can carry a 180kg payload. A W80-class thermonuclear warhead weighs only 130kg and produces 150 kilotons. A F-22 pilot can't fly any more when Hiroshima explodes right next to him.

    Also, another option is to drop a 20-kiloton tactical nuke on Kadena to get rid of all the F-22s there.

    4. A conventional missile with a fragmentation warhead to saturate an area and attempt to shred a F-22. Fire a salvo with programmed distance separation to maximize the probability of intercepting a F-22.

    5. Use the Australia Air Power method and guide a traditional high-explosive conventional warhead to the F-22. It's a good idea to fire a salvo to increase the probability of an intercept.

    6. Use DF-21 MRBMs (ie. medium-range ballistic missiles), DH-10 2,000km LACMs (land-attack cruise missiles), and/or Chinese Tomahawks/DH-10s on ships or submarines (SSG) to destroy the airfields and hangars containing the F-22. Basically, destroy the F-22 while it's on the ground. By destroying the runways, a F-22 can't land to replenish its fuel or weapons load.

    In conclusion, I have presented a six-layer defense to shoot down a F-22 stealth fighter. By 2018, China will have a seventh method to shoot down a F-22. They can vector in Chengdu J-20s and Shenyang J-31s for an intercept.

    Neocons fantasize about flying F-22 stealth fighters over the East China Sea. I think they're dreaming. I don't think a F-22 can survive China's multi-layered defense system.
     
  7. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones ELITE MEMBER

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    @Martian2

    Excuse me, but X-ray and neutron emission doesn't generate any flux for EMP generation. Your theory gets kicked right into the drain, sorry. :rolleyes:

    http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/design.htm

    Can be done doesn't mean has been done and deployed. You live in Boston, right? Try to learn basic English comprehension first.

    Thank You
     
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  8. Akasa

    Akasa SENIOR MEMBER

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    1. EMP is different from a nuclear blast radius.

    2. Does exist, unless all US naval intelligence is incorrect, and has been tested. This is a picture of the target ship: http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5392/militaireyuanwang0095yw.jpg

    4. Go to google and search up "Shenlong spaceplane".

    5. China is developing the stealth HN-2000. China's DH-10 Cruise Missile Program

    6. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6Pg-FLNKkBA/UTgZVFHhtvI/AAAAAAAAEzk/BZk-lT6kK9w/s1600/SharpSword.jpg

    7. China has tested subsurface nuclear weapons, so there's no reason for it to not develop an undersea one.

    8. The YJ-12 can travel at Mach 4 and has a 400 km range. The data was confirmed by military insiders and a PLA official.

    Very funny how you are the one talking about "logic".
     
  9. gambit

    gambit PROFESSIONAL

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    He is positing these nonsense from an 'ideal' situation for China, as in the US will do literally nothing and let China do everything. Such exists only in the make believe world of the deluded. He has no military experience so in lieu of toy soldiers he has the Internet to fuel his fantasies for China.
     
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  10. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Does the Outer Space Treaty prohibit space planes carrying EMP warheads?

    Outer Space Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "The Outer Space Treaty represents the basic legal framework of international space law. Among its principles, it bars States Parties to the Treaty from placing nuclear weapons or any other weapons of mass destruction in orbit of Earth, installing them on the Moon or any other celestial body, or to otherwise station them in outer space."

    ----------

    No, here are the many reasons why the Outer Space Treaty doesn't prohibit space planes carrying megaton-class EMP warheads.

    1. A megaton-class EMP (ie. electromagnetic pulse) weapon is nuclear-powered, but it is not a nuclear weapon (see definition below). There is no destructive force. It is detonated harmlessly at an altitude of 100 miles above the Earth.

    Also, an EMP warhead is not a weapon of mass destruction. It causes no damage to human beings or the biosphere. It simply fuses the electronics and electrical wiring inside military weapons. Therefore, an EMP warhead is a device for peace.

    Nuclear weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "A nuclear weapon is an explosive device that derives its destructive force from nuclear reactions, either fission or a combination of fission and fusion."

    Weapon of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general."

    2. Technically speaking, an EMP warhead in the bay of a space plane is not in orbit. When an object is in orbit, it will remain in space indefinitely. A space plane like the American X-37B or Chinese Shenlong is in a sub-orbital trajectory. Its orbit decays and it will return to Earth.

    3. Irrespective of all other points, no one can ever prove that you sent an EMP warhead into space. Since the military payload is secret, you can flout whatever treaty you want. Without inspection, there is no accountability.

    4. Doctrine of self-defense. Since a massive 16.5-megaton EMP can be used to neutralize the guidance system on all launched thermonuclear-tipped ballistic missiles within the atmosphere in a 2,000-mile radius, a country can claim the necessity of self-defense in deploying EMP warheads. In other words, the common law doctrine of self-defense trumps any provision in the Outer Space Treaty or any other treaty.

    5. History is written by the winner. Who cares about treaties or any other technicality? When your enemies are dead and you're the only one left standing, you can claim anything you want. We, the survivors, were ingenious in placing megaton-class EMPs in space. The other side was too stupid and deserved to die.

    6. A country can always withdraw from a treaty. President George W. Bush announced U.S. withdrawal in December 2001 from the 1972 ABM (anti-ballistic missile) Treaty.

    Does the Outer Space Treaty prohibit space planes carrying EMP warheads?

    Outer Space Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "The Outer Space Treaty represents the basic legal framework of international space law. Among its principles, it bars States Parties to the Treaty from placing nuclear weapons or any other weapons of mass destruction in orbit of Earth, installing them on the Moon or any other celestial body, or to otherwise station them in outer space."

    ----------

    No, here are the many reasons why the Outer Space Treaty doesn't prohibit space planes carrying megaton-class EMP warheads.

    1. A megaton-class EMP (ie. electromagnetic pulse) weapon is nuclear-powered, but it is not a nuclear weapon (see definition below). There is no destructive force. It is detonated harmlessly at an altitude of 100 miles above the Earth.

    Also, an EMP warhead is not a weapon of mass destruction. It causes no damage to human beings or the biosphere. It simply fuses the electronics and electrical wiring inside military weapons. Therefore, an EMP warhead is a device for peace.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon

    "A nuclear weapon is an explosive device that derives its destructive force from nuclear reactions, either fission or a combination of fission and fusion."

    Weapon of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general."

    2. Technically speaking, an EMP warhead in the bay of a space plane is not in orbit. When an object is in orbit, it will remain in space indefinitely. A space plane like the American X-37B or Chinese Shenlong is in a sub-orbital trajectory. Its orbit decays and it will return to Earth.

    3. Irrespective of all other points, no one can ever prove that you sent an EMP warhead into space. Since the military payload is secret, you can flout whatever treaty you want. Without inspection, there is no accountability.

    4. Doctrine of self-defense. Since a massive 16.5-megaton EMP can be used to neutralize the guidance system on all launched thermonuclear-tipped ballistic missiles within the atmosphere in a 2,000-mile radius, a country can claim the necessity of self-defense in deploying EMP warheads. In other words, the common law doctrine of self-defense trumps any provision in the Outer Space Treaty or any other treaty.

    5. History is written by the winner. Who cares about treaties or any other technicality? When your enemies are dead and you're the only one left standing, you can claim anything you want. We, the survivors, were ingenious in placing megaton-class EMPs in space. The other side was too stupid and deserved to die.

    6. A country can always withdraw from a treaty. President George W. Bush announced U.S. withdrawal in December 2001 from the 1972 ABM (anti-ballistic missile) Treaty.

    ----------

    Off-topic:

    At Indians and Gambit, say something relevant and I'll respond. If you merely express rhetoric or nonsensical comments, I'll just keep ignoring you.
     
  11. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones ELITE MEMBER

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    I understand, but EMP generation is directly proportional to Gamma ray emission. Now what is the percentage increase of Gamma ray emission in an Enhanced Radiation warhead?

    Without any proof of that, it's futile to make such absurd claims. Probabilities are, the gamma ray emission are far lower in Enhanced radiation warhead than typical nuclear warhead.

    I understand Sir, but his claims defies physics. So just playing around him a bit. :)
     
  12. gambit

    gambit PROFESSIONAL

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    Shocked...!!! :lol:

    He did it with aviation and enough suckers felled for him.
     
  13. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones ELITE MEMBER

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    @gambit See. :lol:

    Yeah, This is the habit one gets in few looney forums where any absurd comment goes unopposed by few uneducated bunch. :D
     
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  14. anonymus

    anonymus BANNED

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    A 5 MT bomb does not become a 16 MT just because it has greater blast effect area.



    There are practical difficulties targeting a moving vessel in open ocean.Testing a ballistic missile against a stationary target proves nothing.


    In prototype stage only.

    No country has a functional spaceplane.

    Classical fanboyism.

    Everyone is developing a Stealth cruise missile.No one has succeeded.

    I have already pointed toward existence of Nuclear depth charges.

    The problem with thermonuclear torpedo is that warhead cannot be miniaturized to required size.

    Also you do not need a nuclear explosion to occur under the hull to destroy a ship.

    LOL

    Claim to exclusive information.

    Simple does not exist because Speed and maneuverability has inverse relation.And a test of hypersonic cruise missile cannot be missed.

    Some of your compatriots has their head planted so deep in their As$ that they could not seprate fantasy from reality.
     
  15. gambit

    gambit PROFESSIONAL

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    Spare us all. As if the crap you are posting is anything new.