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China plans huge investment in next-generation chips

seven7seven

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China should sanction all companies and countries that comply with the US chip ban. Chiefly, by restricting those companies and countries access to cheap rare earth minerals. If US can cut off China from chip technology, under the pretense of national security, then why can't China do the same and cut off rare earths to hostile entities that threaten its national security.

The West and its lapdogs are showing China that the gloves are now off, in this tech war. China needs to reply in kind and show the World that if you hurt our interests, we'll hurt yours. The West is pushing for decoupling with China so if they don't care about retaining good relations with China, why should China?
 

CAPRICORN-88

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China should sanction all companies and countries that comply with the US chip ban. Chiefly, by restricting those companies and countries access to cheap rare earth minerals. If US can cut off China from chip technology, under the pretense of national security, then why can't China do the same and cut off rare earths to hostile entities that threaten its national security.

The West and its lapdogs are showing China that the gloves are now off, in this tech war. China needs to reply in kind and show the World that if you hurt our interests, we'll hurt yours. The West is pushing for decoupling with China so if they don't care about retaining good relations with China, why should China?
China announcement that it will be disposing up to 20% of its treasury bonds is big news and is already sending chills down USA spine.
USA is already losing big without China advertising a victory.
All these unilateral sanction using President exec. orders can't stop China. Yes. It mwy staggered the process but for how long.
Example. The Covid lockdown resulted in 6.8% contraction in Jan~Mar 2020. Today China August exports is up by 11.8% and July 10.6% Service PMI at 54.1% down from July 54.3% meaning it is quite constant.

USA cannot used its bank reserve created by the Feds to pay for its international debt.
It will created a big, big problem for USA.
China will then convert it to buy real assets such as gold, mines, farmland, etc
It is already the largest purchaser and producer of gold.


The huge US defense budget will be now hit by inflationary force.

Can USA blame China. If China cannot buy assets they wanted, might as well dump the US T-bonds.

I think the next US President have to sit down and have a serious discussion and negotiation with the Chinese to find an amicable solution in moving forward.
Today modern warfare is not about firing missiles and bullets alone.
But China can win this one without firing a shot. :coffee: 8-)
 

antonius123

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I am electrical engineer My bet: the chance you succeed is lower than 10 percent. The article likens making chips is like making atomic bombs. That is wrong. Making advanced chips is hundred if not thousands times harder. You need international cooperation if you want to make chips. But in your case you are a lone wolf. Xi Jingping pours in $1.4 trillion? he will fail. Waste of money.
At that time, making atomic bomb is extremely difficult.

You know "manhattan project"? like that :)
 

Figaro

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You are going to lose because making Chips is WAAYY EASIER than making atomic bombs, The Chinese are doing it right now, is not a new science for then, is not that they lack expertise in the area. Of course 7nm is harder than 28nm but is not impossible even without an EUV machine which is because its novelty by far the most complex equipment in semiconductor manufacturing,
The only parts that the Chinese are lacking is in EUV Lithography and EDA. EDA is easy. EUV they are working on it.
I don't agree with what Viet says but making chips is substantially more difficult than making atomic bombs. For example, India can make an atomic bomb but they have a non-existent semiconductor industry. Of course, given the amount of effort and money the Chinese are pouring in, I'm sure at the end they will succeed. The only problem is until then, the Chinese tech industry is going to suffer greatly, especially if Trump continues his tech war (e.g. blacklisting DJI, Xiaomi, etc ...).
 

casual

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You are going to lose because making Chips is WAAYY EASIER than making atomic bombs, The Chinese are doing it right now, is not a new science for then, is not that they lack expertise in the area. Of course 7nm is harder than 28nm but is not impossible even without an EUV machine which is because its novelty by far the most complex equipment in semiconductor manufacturing,
The only parts that the Chinese are lacking is in EUV Lithography and EDA. EDA is easy. EUV they are working on it.
na, making chips is way harder then atomic bombs. the 28nm and 14nm chips china produces are all using ASML machines which uses US tech.
 

Beast

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na, making chips is way harder then atomic bombs. the 28nm and 14nm chips china produces are all using ASML machines which uses US tech.
That is becos China didnt believe it will be blocked from ASML machins in future. Now it happened and it will happened for China.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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I don't agree with what Viet says but making chips is substantially more difficult than making atomic bombs. For example, India can make an atomic bomb but they have a non-existent semiconductor industry. Of course, given the amount of effort and money the Chinese are pouring in, I'm sure at the end they will succeed. The only problem is until then, the Chinese tech industry is going to suffer greatly, especially if Trump continues his tech war (e.g. blacklisting DJI, Xiaomi, etc ...).
they are difficult in their own way, particularly delivery systems. Proof: South Korea was in the semiconductor industry since 1980's but cannot even match the rocket capabilities China had in 1970 as of 2020.

2 failures in a row, then 1 success for 100 kg launch, 2013. No further attempts.

First launch success, 173 kg, 1970.

India can definitely make semiconductor components - on obsolete 200 mm wafers, at high prices, low throughput, with 180 nm CMOS processes. http://scl.gov.in/cmos_fab_facility.html

In the absence of external tech, South Korea and Taiwan would be totally fucked in semiconductors too. Only US, Japan and China have a totally independent semiconductor industry.
 

Viet

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Like you dont regularly talk of sinking Chinese ships and preemptively striking Chinese military assets?

You have posted again and again how Vietnam and your glorious and imaginary Indian, Japanese and American buddies will dismantle the PLA. That makes you a kamikaze monkey because when the time comes, only you will be charging ahead in your bamboo raft while you buddies watch, laugh and do nothing.
the story of Vietnam starting the war with a preemptive strike on a chinese aircraft carrier is from a US science fiction novel. you troll. I clearly said it in the post.
 

JustAnotherPerson

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na, making chips is way harder then atomic bombs. the 28nm and 14nm chips china produces are all using ASML machines which uses US tech.
Not by a long shot, try making a thermonuclear device and tell me how well you will do it.
this dude is making crude Chips in his garage.
I dont see terrorists making crude atomic bombs in their garage.
If making crude atomic bombs were as easier as making lets say 1micron-250nm chips, a lot small countries and groups would already have one.

SMEE is already working in a 28nm single exposure scanner which can be use in theory to make even 7nm chips. You can also make 28nm and 14nm, even 7nm with a Nikon S622D scanner which i think doesn't use American Tech because Japanese companies tend to do every themselves.
 

j20blackdragon

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