• Monday, December 9, 2019

China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech... Where is India?

Discussion in 'Central & South Asia' started by endyashainin, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. endyashainin

    endyashainin BANNED

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    Where are the innovative Indian internet companies? Only 25 years ago, India was ahead of China in many fields. Even today, India has many advantages over China. India has the English language, the demographic dividend, and the democratic dividend. India is a knowledge superpower, a spiritual superpower, and a self-proclaimed IT superpower. India has inclusive growth; India even grows at night. India is a tortoise, and China is the hare. Despite all these advantages listed by various Indian experts, India has fallen so very far behind China. Why is that? What are the reasons? Why can’t India catch up? Why does India have to fall behind so far behind China in everything? Where is India’s pride and self-respect? Has India given up on catching up with China?


    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/technology/china-mobile-tech-innovation-silicon-valley.html?_r=0

    China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech
    By PAUL MOZURAUG. 2, 2016
    [​IMG]

    A cellphone user in Shenzhen, China. China’s tech industry has popularized some technologies that are just getting started in the United States. An Rong Xu
    HONG KONG — Snapchat and Kik, the messaging services, use bar codes that look like drunken checkerboards to connect people and share information with a snap of their smartphone cameras. Facebook is working on adding the ability to hail rides and make payments within its Messenger app. Facebook and Twitter have begun live-streaming video.

    All of these developments have something in common: The technology was first popularized in China.

    WeChat and Alipay, two Chinese apps, have long used the bar-codelike symbols — called QR codes — to let people pay for purchases and transfer money. Both let users hail a taxi or order a pizza without switching to another app. The video-streaming service YY.com has for years made online stars of young Chinese people posing, chatting and singing in front of video cameras at home.

    Silicon Valley has long been the world’s tech capital: It birthed social networking and iPhones and spread those tech products across the globe. The rap on China has been that it always followed in the Valley’s footsteps as government censorship abetted the rise of local versions of Google, YouTube and Twitter.

    But China’s tech industry — particularly its mobile businesses — has in some ways pulled ahead of the United States. Some Western tech companies, even the behemoths, are turning to Chinese firms for ideas.

    “We just see China as further ahead,” said Ted Livingston, the founder of Kik, which is headquartered in Waterloo, Ontario.

    The shift suggests that China could have a greater say in the global tech industry’s direction. Already in China, more people use their mobile devices to pay their bills, order services, watch videos and find dates than anywhere else in the world. Mobile payments in the country last year surpassed those in the United States. By some estimates, loans from a new breed of informal online banks called peer-to-peer lenders did too.

    China’s largest internet companies are the only ones in the world that rival America’s in scale. The purchase this week of Uber China by Didi Chuxing after a protracted competition shows that at least domestically, Chinese players can take on the most sophisticated and largest start-ups coming out of America.

    The future of online payments and engagements can be found at Liu Zheng’s noodle shop in central Beijing. Liu Xiu’e, 60, and her neighbor, Zhang Lixin, 55, read about the noodle shop on WeChat. Then they ordered and paid for their lunches and took and posted selfies of themselves outside the restaurant, all using the same app.

    Liu Zheng, who is not related to Liu Xiu’e, said the automated ordering and payments meant he could cut down on wages for waiters. “In the future, we will only need one waiter to help in the restaurant and one to help with seating,” Mr. Liu said.

    Industry leaders point to a number of areas where China jumped first. Before the online dating app Tinder, people in China used an app called Momo to flirt with nearby singles. Before the Amazon chief executive Jeff Bezos discussed using drones to deliver products, Chinese media reported that a local delivery company, S.F. Express, was experimenting with the idea. WeChat offered speedier in-app news articles long before Facebook, developed a walkie-talkie function before WhatsApp, and made major use of QR codes well before Snapchat.

    Before Venmo became the app for millennials to transfer money in the United States, both young and old in China were investing, reimbursing each other, paying bills,and buying products from stores with smartphone-based digital wallets.

    What was once known as the land of cheap rip-offs may now offer a glimpse of the future — and American companies are taking notice.

    By JONAH M. KESSEL and PAUL MOZUR on August 9, 2016. Photo by Damir Sagolj/Reuters. Watch in Times Video »
    “Quite frankly, the trope that China copies the U.S. hasn’t been true for years, and in mobile it’s the opposite: The U.S. often copies China,” said Ben Thompson, the founder of the tech research firm Stratechery. “For the Facebook Messenger app, for example, the best way to understand their road map is to look at WeChat.”

    A Facebook spokesman declined to comment. Tencent did not respond to requests for comment.

    Executives from companies like Facebook and smaller rivals like Kik are trying to replicate what has emerged in China: dominant online platforms where users will spend much of their time. Much of that effort is focused on chat.

    “The cool thing about chat is it becomes an operating system for your daily life,” Mr. Livingston said. “Going up to a vending machine, ordering food, getting a cab: Chat can power those interactions, and that’s what we’re seeing with WeChat.”

    China still lags in important areas. Its most powerful, high-end servers and supercomputers often rely in part on American technology. Virtual-reality start-ups trail foreign counterparts, and Google has a jump on Baidu in driverless car technology. Many of China’s products also lack the polish of their American counterparts.

    The biggest advantage for China’s tech industry, according to many analysts, is that it was able to fill a vacuum after the country essentially created much of its economy from scratch following the end of the Cultural Revolution, in 1976. Unlike in the United States, where banks and retailers already have strong holds on customers, China’s state-run lenders are inefficient, and retailers never expanded broadly enough to serve a fast-growing middle class.

    Many Chinese also never bought a personal computer, meaning smartphones are the primary — and often first — computing device for the more than 600 million who have them in China.

    “The U.S. was first to credit cards, and everyone there has a personal computer. But China, where everyone is on their phones all the time, is now ahead in mobile commerce and mobile payments by virtue of leapfrogging the PC and credit cards,” Mr. Thompson said.

    Chinese companies also approach the internet in a different way. In the United States, tech firms emphasize simplicity in their apps. But in China, its three major internet companies — Alibaba, Baidu and the WeChat parent Tencent — compete to create a single app with as many functions as they can stuff into it.

    On Alibaba’s Taobao shopping app, people can also buy groceries, buy credits for online games, scan coupons and find deals at stores nearby. Baidu’s mapping app lets users order an Uber, reserve a restaurant or hotel, order in food, buy movie tickets and find just about any type of store nearby.

    Tencent has opened up WeChat to other companies, allowing them to create apps within WeChat. Ebaoyang — a start-up that enables people to order oil changes for their cars directly on smartphones — was at first almost totally reliant on WeChat to attract business. Gao Feng, one of Ebaoyang’s founders, said the company still relied on the app for 50 percent of its payments and 20 percent of new customers.

    “We started from WeChat. So it was our main, original source for getting customers,” he said.

    Between fees for its services and money it makes through online games, WeChat manages to generate $7 in revenue per user each year, according to Nomura. The app has roughly 700 million users, more than the total number of smartphone users in China, in part because some users are outside the country and in part because people have multiple accounts.

    Much of that comes not from ads, as it might in the United States, but from spending on games, services and goods sold on the app. Those models may not translate from one market to the other, but the two can still borrow from each other, said Carmen Chang, a partner at the venture capital firm New Enterprise Associates.

    “China was able to develop a lot of innovative business models, which arose in a different kind of economy,” said Ms. Chang, who spends time in both China and in Menlo Park, Calif. “Whether or not we admit it here in Silicon Valley, it’s had an impact on us and our thinking.”
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  2. faithfulguy

    faithfulguy ELITE MEMBER

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    This thread is in the wrong section. Mods, can you move it.

    India is known for supplying engineers and CEO to the west. When Indians count its own IT prowess, it includes MS and google as their CEO are Indian.
     
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  3. Chichago_bulls

    Chichago_bulls FULL MEMBER

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    Why India alone ? What about the rest of the world especially your motherland, where does it stand ?? LOL :p:
     
  4. endyashainin

    endyashainin BANNED

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    I didn't know MS and Google are Indian companies. Were they founded in India by Indians? Why do Indians have to leave India to be successful?

    Why am I asking you this? You are not Indian, right? So could our Indian members shed some light on these issues? Why do so many Indians have to leave India to become successful? Where are the home-grown world champions?

    Why is this the wrong section? Indians obsess over China. India vs. China is a nationally popular topic in India. What's wrong with comparing here?
     
  5. dani958

    dani958 BANNED

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  6. Chichago_bulls

    Chichago_bulls FULL MEMBER

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    The same reason why the Chinese still use American technology and Servers to run their high end business processes.
     
  7. endyashainin

    endyashainin BANNED

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    Where is India's Huawei? Why can't India buy up an innovative Israeli company?


    Wait, are you saying you have to go migrate to America to use American technology? Sorry, I'm not trained in classical Hindu logic.
     
  8. Grevion

    Grevion BANNED

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    So you copied a US vs China silicon valley article and added your comments to make it a China vs India topic and then you are calling Indians obsessed with China.....How cool!
     
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  9. dani958

    dani958 BANNED

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    india can buy israel company like toga networks Huawei work in israel secretly in israel from 2010 take best engeenris in very high salary of 12-15 k dollars month they called
    architect and send them to china every few month to leran the chineese how to make it rights
     
  10. endyashainin

    endyashainin BANNED

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    It's not just me... India's obsession with China is well known around the globe.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/b...looks-to-china-as-an-economic-model.html?_r=0

    India Measures Itself Against a China That Doesn’t Notice

    MUMBAI, India — It seems to be a national obsession in India: measuring the country’s economic development against China’s yardstick.

    At a recent panel discussion to commemorate the 20th anniversary of India’s dismantling parts of its socialist economy, a government minister told business leaders to keep their eye on the big prize: growing faster than China.

    “That’s not impossible,” said the minister, Palaniappan Chidambaram, who oversees national security and previously was finance minister. “People are beginning to talk about outpacing China.”

    Indians, in fact, seem to talk endlessly about all things China, a neighbor with whom they have long had a prickly relationship, but which is also one of the few other economies that has had 8 percent or more annual growth in recent years.

    Indian newspapers are filled with articles comparing the two countries. Indian executives refer to China as a template for development. Government officials cite Beijing, variously as a threat, partner or role model.

    But if keeping up with the Wangs is India’s economic motive force, the rivalry seems to be largely one-sided.

    “Indians are obsessed with China, but the Chinese are paying little attention to India,” said Minxin Pei, an economist who was born in China and who writes a monthly column for The Indian Express, a national daily newspaper. (No Indian economists are known to have a regular column in mainland Chinese publications.)

    Most Chinese are unconcerned with how India is growing and changing, because they prefer to compare their country with the United States and Europe, said Mr. Pei, a professor at Claremont McKenna College near Los Angeles. He says he has tried to organize conferences about India in China but has struggled to find enough Chinese India experts.

    Liu Yi, a clothing store owner in Beijing, echoed the sentiments of a dozen Chinese people interviewed in Beijing and Shanghai, in dismissing the idea that the two countries could be compared. Yes, he said India was a “world leader” in information technology but it also had many “backward, undeveloped places.”

    “China’s economy is special,” Mr. Liu said. “If China’s development has a model, you could say it’s the U.S. or England.”

    It might be only natural that the Chinese would look up the development ladder to the United States, now that it is the only nation in the world with a larger economy, rather than over their shoulders at India, which ranks ninth. And while China is India’s largest trading partner, the greatest portion of China’s exports go to the United States.

    So for India, China represents the higher rung to strive for.

    Like India, China traces its civilization back thousands of years and has a population of more than 1 billion people. And China has lessons to offer because, under Deng Xiaoping in the late 1970s and early ’80s, it started the transition to a more open and competitive economy more than a decade before India. Before Deng took power, India’s economy was bigger on a per-capita basis than China’s.

    Whatever the reasons, Indians compare virtually every aspect of their nation with China. Infrastructure (China is acknowledged as being many kilometers ahead). The armed forces (China is more powerful). Universities (China has invested more in its institutions). The software industry (India is far ahead). Proficiency in the English language (India has the historical advantage, but China is catching up).

    Evidence of the Indo-Sino interest disparity can be seen in the two countries’ leading newspapers. The People’s Daily, the Chinese Communist Party’s house organ, had only 24 articles mentioning India on its English-language Web site in the first seven months of this year, according to the Factiva database. By contrast, The Times of India, the country’s largest circulation English-language newspaper, had 57 articles mentioning China — in July alone.

    There are other big gaps. Indian cities, large and small, are filled with Chinese restaurants that serve a distinctly ultraspicy, Indian version of that cuisine. But there are few Indian restaurants in Beijing or Shanghai, let alone in smaller Chinese cities.

    In 2009, more than 160,000 Indian tourists visited mainland China, according to the Chinese government. Barely 100,000 Chinese tourists made the reverse trek, according to India’s government.

    Prakash Jagtap, who owns a small engineering firm in the western Indian city of Pune, has been to China five times. Like many Indians, he loves Chinese food (of the Indian variant) and he sings the praises of Chinese diligence and persistence.

    “They have more discipline,” he said. “Here in our country, people don’t look for the long term. Instead, they look for short term, both the management and labor. We have to change our work culture.”

    Mr. Jagtap’s statement reflects a widely held view among Indians that China has outperformed their country in large part because the Chinese one-party system is more “disciplined” than India’s vibrant, but messy, democracy.

    In early July, The Economic Times, India’s leading financial newspaper, ran a photo slide show on its Web site titled “How China builds these, and why India never does.” The slide show is a series of photographs of large infrastructure projects in China, including the a new 26-mile-long bridge linking Qingdao and the Huangdao district across the Jiaozhou Bay on the northeastern coast.

    India’s views have also been shaped by a 1962 war that ended with China seizing a chunk of the northern India state of Kashmir. The countries still have an unsettled border, and China claims a large piece of territory controlled by India.

    Raghav Bahl, an Indian media executive who has written a book about the economic rise of both countries, said Indians “nursed a severe feeling of humiliation” from the 1962 war that was compounded by China’s economic rise.

    “There is a sense that this is one race that we could have done much better in,” said Mr. Bahl, author of “Superpower? The Amazing Race Between China’s Hare and India’s Tortoise.”

    In China, however, India does not register as a threat, economically or otherwise.

    Mr. Pei, the economist, said Chinese officials, executives and even many intellectuals did not have a nuanced understanding of India. Communist conservatives maintain that “democracy is hindering India’s development,” he said.

    But Indian fascination with China’s economic success is also simplistic, Mr. Pei said. While one-party rule may have helped the country build infrastructure and factories in recent decades, it was also responsible for big failures under Mao Zedong. They include the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, when millions of people starved or were killed or persecuted.

    “In both countries, the level of knowledge about the other is relatively low,” Mr. Pei said.

    But at least several people interviewed in China acknowledged an inherent competition between the countries, given their size and fast growth. Ideally, they said, it will be a healthy rivalry.

    “Competition exists between any two nations,” said Hu Jun, a 40-year-old teacher in Shanghai. “That’s a good thing. If we compete in the areas of high-tech and energy saving, I think that will benefit everyone.”

    In India, Shrayank Gupta, a 21-year-old student at the prestigious Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, echoed those sentiments: “There will definitely be a race, because we are both naturally competitive, and the world will depend on both of us.”
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  11. Chichago_bulls

    Chichago_bulls FULL MEMBER

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    Countries never buy out companies. :p:

    We have very high net worth individuals and conglomerate who can easily acquire any of the innovative startups/companies Israel or even USA, maybe they are not interested at present. :)

    Moreover regarding India's Huwaei, we are more concentrated on service sector, that's why we have some of the world class IT consulting firms and you know that very well.

    First of all I don't think you are stupid enough to think that India means hindu alone. FYI, I'm a christian and it's my christian logic. :-)

    I bet you have very little logical reasoning skills, else you would have understood what I meant. LOL :p:

    Just like the Chinese depend on latest and efficient American cutting edge technologies and servers against their own, our Engineers prefer to work or more challenging projects and advanced technologies, why is it forbidden as per your logic ?? Moreover why are you in USA instead of Pakistan ? Afterall money does matter friend. :)
     
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  12. Shajida Khan

    Shajida Khan BANNED

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    Do you know how first designed the QR code technology? Japanese automotive companies. Western media is enamored by China for quite sometime. They even attribute China for somethings done by Japanese.

    Interestingly, I can also ask what is Pakistan doing in all of this? I guess they cannot even supply CEOs and technologists like India.
     
  13. Chichago_bulls

    Chichago_bulls FULL MEMBER

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    Yes we are obsessed. Not only with China, but with U.S and Europe or any country who is successful. I know we are no where near, but you might have heard, "if you can dream it you can do it", currently we have a dream especially "Make in India", slowly we will transform it into "Made in India", it might take some time, and trollers like you may or not live up to see that, but it's surely bound to happen.

    And what is wrong if there is a healthy competition between two neighbors ?? It's far better than cross boarder terrorism if you may ask me. ;)
     
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  14. endyashainin

    endyashainin BANNED

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    What if your dream is a nightmare? Or what if you never wake up to reality?


    Could you give me some specific examples of India's obsession with surpassing Europe and America? Give me some links and articles please.
     
  15. Chichago_bulls

    Chichago_bulls FULL MEMBER

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    I guess you don't have any better argument to make. LOL :p: