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China Civil Aviation, AVIC (MA600) & COMAC (ARJ21/C919/C929)

Ali.009

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It is called the Manufacturing PacMan strategy. Start with parts, and an export engine. Then begin duplicating large machines like the Migs. Reach technological independence and build your own aircraft. China has followed the path perfectly.

Chinese Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (CACC) was founded on May the 11th 2008 with an opening ceremony in presence of Boeing and Airbus representatives. It has an initial capital of $2.7 billion, one third of which invested by state-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission that is the biggest stakeholder of the firm.

Jumbo-jets are those high capacity planes, from 200 to 800 passengers, able to cover very long distance routes reaching almost every possible destination. This market has been controlled for years by the Boeing 747 and the new Airbus A-380 aircraft. (Avionews) (042) 090306173632-1100791 (World Aeronautical Press Agency - 2009-03-06 05:36 pm)
While Boeing is embroiled in malaise and Airbus is unable to lift its head out of a deep recession, China is embarking on huge development projects like Aircraft Careers and Jumbo Jets. China’s Aircraft is genuinely indigenous, unlike the ships of Delhi where the main indigenous part is Tri-Colored Paint.

BEIJING, March 6 (Xinhua)– China has named its first home-made jumbo jet C919, which will take off in around eight years, its chief designer Wu Guanghui said on Friday.

“C represents China as well as COMAC, the abbreviation for Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd,” said Wu, who is also the deputy general manager of COMAC, the manufacturer of C919.

“The name also reflects our determination to compete in the international market for jumbo jet. C919 comes after Airbus and Boeing, so you will have ABC in the aviation industry,” said Wu, apolitical advisor who is here attending the annual session of 11thNational Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference.

The first 9 in the name implies forever in Chinese culture, while 19 means the first jumbo jet produced by China will have 190seats, he said.

Wu said that his company will choose suppliers of engines, airborne equipment, and materials through international bidding, and will encourage foreign suppliers to enter into partnership with Chinese manufacturers.

“We will choose foreign-manufactured products like engines at the beginning phase, but we will also independently do the research and manufacturing work at the same time,” noted Wu.

The Shanghai-based COMACwas set up in May, 2008 after approval in early 2007 by the State Council, China’s Cabinet. It has a registered capital of 19 billion yuan (2.78 billion U.S. dollars), with the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission as the biggest shareholder.

Wu said the jumbo jet project now involves 47 institutions from China and abroad, and that the preliminary general technical design plan and commercial feasibility study have been completed. China names first jumbo jet C919, to take off in 8 years. English_Xinhua 2009-03-06 22:46:00
Beijing has now perfected the art of reingineering and has made small aircraft. It has been mass producing fighter aricraft for a decade. Now it has moved beyond small planes and gone into the business of large commercial aircraft.

Asked when the domestic-made jumbo jets can take flight, Wu said that this still cannot be confirmed, but estimates it will occur within 8 to 10 years.

By the end of next year, Chinese passengers will be able to fly on the ARJ21, China’s independently designed and developed 90-seat regional jet.

Wu commented confidently, “The in-cabin experience is similar to jumbo jets with spacious, comfortable seating, and the jet also features low fuel consumption.”

To date, China has received orders for 208 ARJ21 regional jets from home and abroad. Clients include seven or eight airlines in China.

Wu disclosed that the ARJ21 is priced at around 28 million USD each, less than foreign planes of the same type. “The foreign planes are generally priced at around 45 million USD each.” By People’s Daily Online
Only time will tell, if the plane will be produced by the next decade or not, but the strategy is sound. China is using vendors from around the globe to supply parts to its new venture. That means that China will be creating stake holders in the US and Europe who will be loyal to COMAC.

WAPA) - Even if intellectual property, design and assembly of the jumbo-jet project will belong exclusively to China, Chinese Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China general manager, Wu Guangli, stated yesterday (Thursday, March 5th) that parts and materials will be collected worldwide. He invited all the suppliers to cooperate with Chinese enterprises participating in the project. China will keep supervision and control, being able to manage all the available international and local resources. It will take from 8 to 10 years to see these giants take off, but it can’t be confirmed at this time, Wu Guangli said. Beijing, China - Anyway supervision, intellectual property, design and assembly will remain totally Chinese. (World Aeronautical Press Agency - 2009-03-06 05:36 pm)
 

aimarraul

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China wants to rival Boeing, Airbus with its C919 'big plane'

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BEIJING — For now, China's big entry into the standard passenger jet business is little more than a 20-foot-long model plane on display here at Beijing Expo air show.

But the model — of the planned C919, single-aisle jetliner designed to seat up to 190 passengers — represents something much larger.

It's what's called the "big plane" project here. It symbolizes the country's stepped-up efforts to get into the commercial passenger jet business in a big way and challenge U.S. plane-making giant Boeing and European rival Airbus, which dominate the global jetliner market. And it will be a showcase for China's ambition to be more than a low-tech producer of consumer goods for the world.

"To develop the large-scale airliner is a strategic decision of the Chinese government and one of the major programs for building up an innovation-oriented country," Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang said last month, according to the Xinhua state news agency.

The model of the C919 was unveiled in August. Work on a prototype began only last month. A maiden flight isn't scheduled until 2014, and the jet won't be available commercially until 2016. Even then, it's aimed at China's domestic market rather than for U.S. or other countries' airlines.

But the Chinese manufacturer already says the twin-engine, narrow-body design of the C919 is superior to the planes it would compete against: the Boeing 737, the best-selling jetliner in the world, and its competitor, the Airbus A320.

The plane "is more advanced compared to the current operating aircraft of the same size," Chen Jin, sales chief of the Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China, which will make the planes, told China's English-language China Daily newspaper. "It will use between 12% and 15% less fuel, and help reduce carbon emissions."

The manufacturer also says it can bring the C919 in at a price lower than the $50 million range that Boeing and Airbus charge for each of their planes.

Such boasts could indeed make the C919 a rival of Boeing and Airbus — if met. But U.S. and international aircraft industry analysts question whether they can be. Despite state backing and a strong travel market, the Chinese manufacturer faces many technical and commercial challenges.

"I don't think Boeing or Airbus will feel at all threatened by this," says Derek Sadubin, CEO of the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, an independent think tank in Sydney.

Confidence, despite hurdles

For the Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China, or COMAC, to achieve the fuel efficiency needed to make its new plane attractive to airlines seeking lower operating costs is a difficult proposition.

The plane's designer, Wu Guanghui, told China Daily that COMAC is turning to new, lightweight carbon composites in place of steel for the plane's construction to gain the 12% to 15% in fuel efficiency.

Boeing, which is the pioneer in composite design, has had difficulty in bringing its first composite plane, the 787 Dreamliner, to market. Boeing promises the Dreamliner will deliver 20% operating savings compared with conventionally built aircraft. But its test flights have been repeatedly canceled, with the latest delay coming from a structural flaw.

Likewise, Boeing and Airbus have delayed plans to build more fuel-efficient, narrow-body planes to replace the 737 and A320 because they say that composites alone won't contribute enough fuel-efficiency savings to justify the billions of dollars of design costs.

Despite no track record in making big planes or composites, the Chinese are confident they can do it.

"China is doubling its composite material output every year," says Cheng Zhong, a mechanical engineer at a state-owned company making composites for China's aerospace sector, as he admired the C919 model at the Beijing air exposition. "I believe we have the capacity to make the required composites."

To achieve the cost savings that COMAC says will bring the C919 in at a lower price, the manufacturer will have to count on success with composites. After the design investment is made, materials are the biggest cost of constructing a plane, says Richard Aboulafia, an aircraft manufacturing analyst at The Teal Group in Fairfax, Va.

Aboulafia says COMAC probably cannot buy materials much more cheaply than Boeing or Airbus. And lower Chinese labor costs won't make its plane appreciably less expensive than the two. Labor represents just 10% of construction costs, he says.

Price also isn't the sole factor for airlines in buying a plane. Aboulafia says a plane's quality, reliability, maintenance and readily available replacement parts, as well as the pilot and mechanic training that manufacturers provide, are equally important for airlines.

Aboulafia also warns that building commercial aircraft has never been a consistently profitable business. Boeing and Airbus risk several billions of dollars every time they try to develop a new type of aircraft and have suffered many cost overruns and program delays. So far, COMAC has made only smaller planes.

The only way that COMAC can deliver significantly lower prices, he says, is if the Chinese government is willing to subsidize big losses on the plane to establish the country's position in the global industry.

'Dynamic market' a plus

One big thing that the "big plane" project has going for it commercially is China's booming travel market, which would be the first competitive battleground for COMAC's ambition of being a global competitor. Boeing and Airbus already are here providing planes to Chinese airlines. Another thing going for COMAC is that global demand for the C919 class of narrow-body jets remains strong.

Boeing currently forecasts that the Chinese market will need close to 3,770 jetliners in the C919's class of planes for domestic routes in the next 20 years. At current prices, that's about $400 billion worth of airplanes. Globally, Boeing places the 20-year demand for planes such as the C919, 737 and A230 at nearly 19,500, valued at $1.4 trillion.

"China is the most dynamic market for commercial airplanes, and the second largest worldwide after North America," says Wang Yukui, director of communications for Boeing's China unit.

Domestic air traffic grew 20% in the first half of 2009 vs. the first half of 2008 despite a worldwide economic slump, according to China's Civil Aviation Administration.

Because the Chinese government is invested in the C919, analyst Sadubin says Chinese airlines would be inclined to buy them. But analyst Aboulafia says that isn't a given.

"China's airline industry has really become a private-sector industry, and it has been ignoring the government in its decisions for some time now," he says. "Just because the C919 will be made in China doesn't mean all the Chinese carriers will stop buying 737s and A320s to buy only C919s. Those airlines will do what is best for their own business plans. Besides, it will be decades, if ever, before the Chinese will be able to produce anything close to the numbers of planes that the Chinese market will demand."

Boeing's take on new rival

For now, Boeing and Airbus don't appear worried by China's "big plane" project, though they are careful not to be dismissive of it.

Boeing "recognizes and respects the ambition and desire of other countries to enter (the business) with large aircraft," Wang says. "When China wants to do things, they have the talent and desire to succeed."

Laurence Barron, Airbus China president, warns, however, that the market is fraught with unexpected difficulties and delays. Achieving its goal of being a global aviation player could take the Chinese manufacturer more than a decade, he was quoted as saying in China's International Aviation magazine.

Joe Tymczyszyn, executive director of the U.S.-China Aviation Cooperation Program, which comprises aviation companies and government organizations, says the U.S. shouldn't fear the competition.

China's foray into the larger passenger jet market could be a "win-win" for the Chinese and for U.S. aviation firms, Tymczyszyn says. U.S. firms currently supply up to 45% of the dollar content in COMAC's smaller passenger jet, and he says they'll compete to supply the new jet, too.

The Chinese aren't alone among emerging economies wanting to expand into the jetliner business. Russia and Brazil have new jets coming out, too.

National pride

At the air expo here, where the model of the C919 was a big draw, the prospect of Chinese airliners evoked a sense of excitement and even a little economic nationalism.

"The Chinese people can do this," enthused Mao Caihong, 35. "I am very excited by this plane. If China can keep on developing, we can build high-level, comfortable and safe planes."

Cheng Zhong, the mechanical engineer, was more to the financial point in his assessment.

"Airplanes cost China billions of dollars every year," he said. "Since we have the capability to make them, why let foreigners earn all the money?"
 

Honor

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And how will China do that?
Even your cheap toys are banned the world over.
Is China planning to make a polythene aircraft worth $1 :rofl::rofl::rofl:
How will China do it? With it's technological based and good funding. Chinese deliver when they say it.

There are quality issue happened before! The world did not banned China made toys currently.

No one says that China is making a aircraft worth $1 using polythene. Unless you are refering to a toy.

You need to grow up. Speak with some sane.
 

aimarraul

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How will China do it? With it's technological based and good funding. Chinese deliver when they say it.

There are quality issue happened before! The world did not banned China made toys currently.

No one says that China is making a aircraft worth $1 using polythene. Unless you are refering to a toy.

You need to grow up. Speak with some sane.
don't need to waste your time on a fool
 
Jun 22, 2009
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This will become successful, but will take time to develop (and for market to accept). 10 years to develop fully (and tested), plus another 5 years for market acceptance. In the mean time, Airbus + Boeing will enjoy healthy profits.
 

aimarraul

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@ammiraul, do you how much this aircraft is selling for?

Any new buyers - Brazil??
lower than 50 million $,i don't think there will be any foreign buyers before first one delivered,china need more than 3000 large plane in next 20 years.with such higher fuel efficiency ,C919 will be very attractive to every airline companies
 

dvk1982

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This will become successful, but will take time to develop (and for market to accept). 10 years to develop fully (and tested), plus another 5 years for market acceptance. In the mean time, Airbus + Boeing will enjoy healthy profits.
if china is doing a major homework on its own.. 10 yrs is too aggressive... looking at the lead times for Boeing and Airbus....

It sud at least take 15 odd yrs before sth solid result.... market acceptance depends on how ur competitors respond by then.....
 

rajeev

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lower than 50 million $,i don't think there will be any foreign buyers before first one delivered,china need more than 3000 large plane in next 20 years.with such higher fuel efficiency ,C919 will be very attractive to every airline companies
That seems very cheap. You guys could sell it to lot of executives who will want to lay hands on them!
 

aimarraul

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if china is doing a major homework on its own.. 10 yrs is too aggressive... looking at the lead times for Boeing and Airbus....

It sud at least take 15 odd yrs before sth solid result.... market acceptance depends on how ur competitors respond by then.....
the preliminary works of C919 probably started 10 years ago,it's not the first time china make civil aircraft,ARJ-21,MA600,MA60 are all flying in the air,also there is a complete production line of a320 in china,russia always have problems to deliver IL76 on time, there is huge demand from both military and commercial side,C919 is not a over-aggressive plan,it's sth absolutely settled,no one said C-series would challege Boeing or Airbus leading position in short time,our experts only said it will take 30 years to catch up them
 
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Ruag

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China needs to first compete with small, but innovative aircraft manufacturers like Bombardier and Embraer before trying to compete with Boeing and Airbus.

Both Boeing and Airbus have decades of experience and expertise in this field and also have a huge talented workforce. The smart thing to do would be collaborate with these manufacturers, like how Japan and India do, rather than competing with them.

India's Hindustan Aeronautics is already a major supplier of aircraft parts to both Boeing and Airbus -

HAL to produce crucial parts of Boeing-777s in Bangalore- Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

domain-b.com : Follow-on order for HAL to manufacture Airbus aircraft doors
 

aimarraul

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Jun 27, 2008
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China needs to first compete with small, but innovative aircraft manufacturers like Bombardier and Embraer before trying to compete with Boeing and Airbus.

Both Boeing and Airbus have decades of experience and expertise in this field and also have a huge talented workforce. The smart thing to do would be collaborate with these manufacturers, like how Japan and India do, rather than competing with them.

India's Hindustan Aeronautics is already a major supplier of aircraft parts to both Boeing and Airbus -

HAL to produce crucial parts of Boeing-777s in Bangalore- Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

domain-b.com : Follow-on order for HAL to manufacture Airbus aircraft doors
ARJ21-700
6509c9c2fc4d83ed1ae96f36de058e09.jpg

MA-60
b7e033edc4736b244979e2e9bddc3861.jpg

MA600

Frist Chinese-made Airbus A320
 
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