What's new

China Chipping Away to Semiconductor Dominance

CAPRICORN-88

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 19, 2015
2,832
-4
5,588
Country
Singapore
Location
Malaysia
New US$12 billion factory for SMIC 7nm and other sub-14nm wafers
SMIC is the third largest semiconductor manufacturer internationally. (Image Source: SMIC)SMIC is the third largest semiconductor manufacturer internationally. (Image Source: SMIC)
The Shanghai Municipal and Development Reform Commission has announced US$12 billion in project funding for a new SMIC-owned semiconductor foundry to produce sub-14nm wafers. This is another step towards creating an independent semiconductor industry in China that avoids US sanctions.
Craig Ward, 02/08/2021


Shanghai China-based SMIC, the third-largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world, and the Shanghai government have announced the development of a new US$12 billion plant to focus on its 14nm and smaller lithography.
As reported by WCCFTech, SMIC’s new factory was one of the dozens of new projects funded by the Shanghai regional government to create a self-sustaining supply chain for electronics production. Producing its own 7nm wafers is particularly relevant for the company after being added to the United State’s trade entity blacklist in late 2020.
This new manufacturing plant currently has targeted output of 35k 12-inch wafers per month. This will be a drop in the bucket compared to SMIC’s current 385k 8-inch and 195k 12-inch wafer production, but it is significant because this fab will make up a large portion of the company’s sub-14nm production.
SMIC’s new 7nm node, announced in October of last year, will be produced at the new factory. This node reportedly compares well to competing nodes from other semiconductor manufacturers in all but performance, leading to tailoring the output to low-performance/low-power uses.
 

JustAnotherPerson

FULL MEMBER
May 17, 2020
254
0
257
Country
Antigua And Barbuda
Location
Chile
gambit tends to go tangent to the main subjects is what i have been noticing.
Yes, if he is an expert, he needs to improve his communication skills.
I think what he is trying to say is: "Because Huawei is "new" in the semiconductor manufacturing business every facility, equipment and materials they use need to be ISO and standard certificated and that will take some time and that will make Huawei lose some business".
Ok that understandable and my guess is that Huawei have preparing for that for some time and they are collaborating with other semiconductors companies like smic.
 

Han Patriot

ELITE MEMBER
Mar 23, 2011
11,104
-23
17,238
Country
China
Location
Singapore
Yes, if he is an expert, he needs to improve his communication skills.
I think what he is trying to say is: "Because Huawei is "new" in the semiconductor manufacturing business every facility, equipment and materials they use need to be ISO and standard certificated and that will take some time and that will make Huawei lose some business".
Ok that understandable and my guess is that Huawei have preparing for that for some time and they are collaborating with other semiconductors companies like smic.
The toilet in my company is iso certified, did that genius just said capacitors and equate them to semiconductors, I think he needs to get back to elementary school if he doesn't understand semiconductors.
 

FairAndUnbiased

ELITE MEMBER
Nov 25, 2011
8,130
-2
12,328
Country
China
Location
United States
Regarding the wafer map. If I find out that batch came from a production line that involves equipment that are not commonly accepted in the industry, such as from equipment suppliers like Advantest or TEL or Applied Materials, I can cancel our contract and there is nothing you can do about it because our contract stipulated that you are allowed to use only established industry equipment, not just your products pass benchmarks testing.
Your assumption is that Chinese equipment won't get certified. That assumption is wrong.



Apple also just bought a new fab in San Jose.

Did Apple lose all its business because there is no evidence Apple has ever successfully manufactured semiconductor devices and thus no one can trust them? Maybe all their products need to be tested again from the component level up at a physical level, and not a single sale can be made until that happens?

 

TaiShang

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 30, 2014
28,019
70
98,858
Country
China
Location
Taiwan, Province Of China


Great Wall Motor announced today that it has completed a strategic investment in Horizon Robotics, an automotive chip company, which means it has officially entered the chip industry.

Great Wall Motor said that it will develop in the chip industry through strategic investment, strategic cooperation and independent research and development.

Since the end of last year, many car companies have been caught in the situation of chip shortage, Great Wall Motor became another car company to enter the chip manufacturing industry after BYD.

According to the strategic cooperation framework agreement signed by both parties, they will focus on the direction of advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS), high-level autonomous driving and intelligent cockpit, and jointly explore automotive intelligent technology and develop intelligent car products.

They will also layout intelligent core technologies such as autonomous driving and intelligent network connection to accelerate the development and mass production of intelligent vehicles.

Wei Jianjun, chairman of Great Wall Motor, said that with the development of automotive intelligence, the importance of chips for the automotive industry is increasingly prominent.


"I believe Great Wall Motor and Horizon can give full play to their respective core R&D capabilities in the future, jointly build a full chain of self-driving AI core technologies, and focus on promoting in-depth cooperation in the direction of front-end mass production," he stated.

Horizon founder and CEO Yu Kai said that the two sides will be committed to promoting the construction of smart car ecology and jointly building future-oriented smart car products.

The vice president of Great Wall Motor had previously said, "Chip is the core component of intelligent development, and Great Wall Motor is very concerned about this area."

Horizon is the only technology company in China that has achieved front-end mass production of automotive smart chips, and already has chip solutions for L2-L3 , and will launch chips for L3/L4 autonomous driving in the future.


Currently over 45% of Great Wall Motor' models are equipped with L2 smart driving and will achieve China's first fully redundant L3 autonomous driving this year.



Great Wall Motor enters chip industry with investment in auto chip firm Horizon Robotics-cnEVpost
 

gambit

PROFESSIONAL
Apr 28, 2009
25,397
138
23,362
Country
United States
Location
United States
Dude you are all over the place, its hurts, first you talk about wafers, then equipment saying that "if you dont use that or this American equipment we wont buy your products" which is different from "if your equipment is not standard certificated we wont buy your products", my guess is that most Chinese equipment, material and software are already certificated or in the process of getting certificated. Then give a example of automotive standards when the main bulk of Huawei business is telecom, networking and consumer products. At least give me an example of telecom and networking standards, Huawei automotive bussiness is mostly in China. You see the certification for that capacitor that you put as an example, is probably made by Huawei factory in China with mostly Chinese made equipment. and they still manage to get certificated. it will be the same for their ICs products that mostly will be use in their end user products.
But i get you idea. Huawei as a company will make sure that all the process that they develop get patented, follow and get certification by the correct national and international standards bodies, JEDEC, ISOs, whatever, most Chinese semiconductor equipment manufacturers are probably already certificated internationally and the same goes for the materials manufacturers. That is a given, that is not disputable, we dont even need to discuss this, Huawei is one of the most certificated companies in the world. you can bet your yr salary by the time Huawei process are running they will be already certificated. like i say before the reason the hoarded components is to have time to develop their process. the whole automotive industry is suffering for that.
Are you are an expert? disputable, maybe you have your dream job as a wafer tester or maybe you are just a google search warrior, Either way i dont care.
This is not disputable, we can talk after they develop their process about efficiency or if they will be able manufacture enough chips to fulfill their orders or if the fabs will be able to keep with their growth or if they will be able to jump to more advance nodes or if the cost of running a semiconductor fab will be too high. Anything else is a waste of time.
The point that you missed -- no surprise there -- is that you do not know what you are talking about. You have no relevant experience in the semicon industry. That much is clear. The result is that people like you tends to bloviate about the subjects involved at a high level.

The problem with high level commentaries is that, while it gives the gullible the impression that the speaker (you) a veneer of knowledge, you are ultimately misleading the readers. People thinks that somehow Huawei can just jump from one node to the next, one contractor to the next, one supplier to the next, and all without consequences. Then when people like who have actual WORK EXPERIENCE in the field begin to point out your errors, misleading information, and false assumptions, I am 'all over the place'. It is actually a good debating tactic because you to some degrees managed to portray me as wrong, and that is all that matter to you -- face saving. Not because you genuinely are interested in improving your knowledge.

You mocked me as nothing more than a 'wafer tester'. Yet, there are at least two PDF Chinese members whose claims to have relevant semicon experience knows that I know what am talking about. They know that me and my counterparts in their companies are the final line of defense of manufacturing defects to the customers. They did not dispute what I said because they could not. You guessed but your guesses are not educated, and it is because you are not interested in doing proper research before you open your virtual mouth and speak.
 

gambit

PROFESSIONAL
Apr 28, 2009
25,397
138
23,362
Country
United States
Location
United States
Looks like a bad wafer to me than anything.
It was a CMP scratch. This one is unusual in the sense that normal CMP scratches that involved particles, the offending particle(s) are lodged in the pad, so the scratches would have arcs or swirls across the wafer. With this event, the particles were dislodged but remained trapped between the pad and the wafer, then the particles traversed from the edge across the face then finally was displaced off the wafer. Edge dies are always problematic in manufacturing and finally to test, even for matured products, so based upon the electrical data, the particles in this event damaged the die structures for the edge dies deeper than normal compare to the other dies. This wafer was scheduled for a Tier 1 customer who was very picky so the wafer as sold to a Tier 3 client, then the rest of the lot was sold to the original Tier 1 client at a 'good will' discount.

The semi industry in China is well, Chinese industry. Domestic 200mm fabs were always having a windfall for a simple reason of them being n times cheaper than any other foreign option.

Now, US spooked the industry very good, and it may even push people into the 300mm age as the premium for domestically made chips will raise eventually.

China is world's biggest semiconductor market, bigger than the rest of the world combined, want you or not.

Any like a real embargo will be windfall for our domestic IC industry.

Taiwanese had an option to "strangle" mainland's industry for decades, now think, why do you thing they didn't, and even went as far as protesting Trump's bans? It's simple, ICs sold to China makes them tons of money.
The best the industry have is 'may'.


200mm was supposed to fade away as 300mm came online, and that worked from 2007 – 2014, but the trend reversed thereafter. Customers like building on 200mm fab lines because the manufacturing technologies are extremely mature and the costs are low. Many customers don’t get much benefit from moving to lower geometries, and they want to stick with the designs they’ve already paid for. Many IoT sensors and similar products are therefore built at relatively large process nodes. As demand for these products has grown, 200mm capacity has gotten difficult to book. Large foundries like TSMC have been slow to add new 200mm capacity, and 200mm utilization was already high at many fabs before the pandemic hit.

The highlighted is problematic for the transition to 300 mm and it is the same for a supposedly move from 300 to 450 mm, which have been in limbo for more than a decade.

Precisely because the automotive industry have different standards for autonomous applications, developers would rather stick with what they know to be proven. For the foreseeable future, as the EV matures in designs, engineering, and mass manufacturing, the EV will have more internal volume so the need for miniaturization, as expected with 300 mm geometries, will not be there, keeping the 200 mm wafers around for as long as the fabs can make money from them.


“As demand for automotive electronics has rebounded, the shortage of chips produced on 200 mm wafers has become much more acute,” according to research ECIA cited by Joel Huskra in an article published in December. The typical car requires 50 to 150 semiconductors.

An autonomous EV delivering pizza to my house will have similar size as my old FJ Cruiser, so what is the point of miniaturization with 300 mm geometries for all those sensors and memory modules?

Further, the 200 mm equipment have been paid for, so there is less incentive to transition to 300 mm wafers.


Equipment vendors see similar trends. “The outlook for SPTS’ 200mm wafer processing equipment is very strong, as it has been for the past 5 years or so,” said David Butler, executive vice president and general manager for SPTS Technologies, a KLA Company. “The buoyancy of the smaller wafer market is very visible in our own stats. As a percentage of our total business, sales for 200mm or smaller declined from 2010 to 2015 when it approached an approximate 50/50 split with 300mm. Then the trend reversed, and the 200mm or smaller percentage is back to 2010 levels.”

So not only have my 200 mm equipment paid for, any new 200 mm wafer equipment I need to buy to replace the worn out ones will not be of any 'leading edge' technologies like the 300 mm wafer equipment, therefore, less cost. My clients will be satisfied that I am not losing any certification and time because these are established technologies. If I build/buy a 300 mm fab, it would be monumentally stupid, not to say losing money, to build common products with 200 mm geometries on a 300 mm wafer. So why should I risk at least 2 yrs of making no money by moving to 300 mm ?

That article was dated Dec 2020.

This is why what the US did to Chinese companies, Huawei in particular, sent shock waves throughout the semicon industry. Just because 200 mm wafer technologies are established, only some of those technologies are either not affected by the ban or alternates can be adopted. Chinese semicon equipment makers will still have to qualify their products even if all their clients are Chinese enforced by Chinese laws. This make 200 mm wafer technologies and associated equipment even more valuable, which means more money the foundries can charge.
 

JustAnotherPerson

FULL MEMBER
May 17, 2020
254
0
257
Country
Antigua And Barbuda
Location
Chile

gambit

PROFESSIONAL
Apr 28, 2009
25,397
138
23,362
Country
United States
Location
United States
Experience on what?
Military aviation issues. Something you do not have because you were essentially a conscript reject by the PLA.

Bullshiting? Lol
Exposing PDF Chinese bullshit. Lol. All this time, you guys have been posting rosy news about Huawei and Chinese semicon industry. Now it must sucks to see reality schlapped in your face and there is not a damn thing you can do except whine about my sources. Your two friends who claimed to have semicon experience? I took them at their words. Did they challenged my sources and personal comments? No, they could not. Because either they lied about themselves or with their experience they knew I was talking the truth. Sucks to be YOU, eh?

You have a problem with my copy/paste posts? Fine. Go look at the first post in this thread.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 2, Members: 0, Guests: 2)


Top Bottom