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Featured China and Russia jointly issue roadmap for intl lunar research station; Pakistan is the only Asian country invited

Taimoor Khan

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@3:43



This is huge!! Biggest ever scientific project in Pakistan history, yet no one is picking on it?
You can actually see Pakistani engineers working on Chinese facilities in the clip.
 

PeaceGen

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a very cheesy video detailing a rather unimpressive moon base.
but i welcome the development.
 

PeaceGen

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@3:58 , what's "unimpressive" about it? It will be the first such facility, what are you comparing with it?
it's got no permanent habitat for humans, for instance.

plans by NASA and SpaceX do have this feature, and there's talk of domed cities on Mars, as well as terraforming of Mars.


but i'm sure that the Russians and Chinese can learn a lot from their own space exploration efforts, and if there is political will, they can cooperate with western space exploration efforts.
 

Taimoor Khan

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it's got no permanent habitat for humans, for instance.

plans by NASA and SpaceX do have this feature, and there's talk of domed cities on Mars, as well as terraforming of Mars.


but i'm sure that the Russians and Chinese can learn a lot from their own space exploration efforts, and if there is political will, they can cooperate with western space exploration efforts.
If you look closely, at the end of the presentation, there is much larger base which looks like a habitat for longer human sustanences.

I think it will be phased project.

ESA is partner in this project, which is basically whole of Europe.
 

Brainsucker

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it's got no permanent habitat for humans, for instance.

plans by NASA and SpaceX do have this feature, and there's talk of domed cities on Mars, as well as terraforming of Mars.


but i'm sure that the Russians and Chinese can learn a lot from their own space exploration efforts, and if there is political will, they can cooperate with western space exploration efforts.
Well, it is a roadmap for a realistic scientific moon project in near future (under 1 decade) rather than a long term dream of human habitation in other planet. If they can find a huge deal of resource in the moon, that can be mined and send to Earth, then the base can be expanded in the future. But if not, it is a waste of money to build a permanent "Village" out there. As our terraforming technology is still not impressive.

It is only a wishy-wishy dream to terraform the moon while we still can't do anything with the desert on our planet.
 

Ace of Spades

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@3:43



This is huge!! Biggest ever scientific project in Pakistan history, yet no one is picking on it?
You can actually see Pakistani engineers working on Chinese facilities in the clip.
This is great! I hope Pakistan partner with china for more projects and have projects in pipeline for Chinese space station deployment of Pakistani astronauts.
 

Taimoor Khan

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This is great! I hope Pakistan partner with china for more projects and have projects in pipeline for Chinese space station deployment of Pakistani astronauts.
Indeed. But can you imagine Pakistan having access to such cutting edge technology within American lead western block? We have been their allies since independence but got dilly squat in return with no access to high end tech and space. Pakistan despite been a huge country of 220 million , will always be treated as a third tier nation where crumbs are thrown at it , not even directly but through second tier nations like GCC.

This is basically extension of BRI into the space. Pakistan was the first country to join BRI in the form of CPEC. By default, it has got seat at the board of governors. China will always drag Pakistan with it, and what you see here is basically the joys being the first nation to sign up on BRI project. All we need now is to stick glue on our arse, sit on that chair in board of governors of this new world order, and stay there, while keep on reaping benefits with both hands. Its a new world order, where we are no longer treated as third tier nation. Those who want to keep Pakistan in that shitty old world order of America, they are biggest traitors of Pakistan.
 

mike2000 is back

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Indeed. But can you imagine Pakistan having access to such cutting edge technology within American lead western block? We have been their allies since independence but got dilly squat in return with no access to high end tech and space. Pakistan despite been a huge country of 220 million , will always be treated as a third tier nation where crumbs are thrown at it , not even directly but through second tier nations like GCC.

This is basically extension of BRI into the space. Pakistan was the first country to join BRI in the form of CPEC. By default, it has got seat at the board of governors. China will always drag Pakistan with it, and what you see here is basically the joys being the first nation to sign up on BRI project. All we need now is to stick glue on our arse, sit on that chair in board of governors of this new world order, and stay there, while keep on reaping benefits with both hands. Its a new world order, where we are no longer treated as third tier nation. Those who want to keep Pakistan in that shitty old world order of America, they are biggest traitors of Pakistan.
Come on guys, be realistic. This is reality not fantasy. How did the US treat Pakistan like garbage? you guys were allies and worked together when you had a common threat. Reason the US provided many of its cutting edge weapons to Pakistan back then, especially after the Soviets intervention in Afghanistan. The US provided huge amount of aid to Pakistan , no denying that. The dynamics of course have changed today, so you cant expect that same level of support/cooperation.

Moreover since when is life fair that every country will/should be treated equally? lol Even in your family do you think everybody is treated the same way. I'm sure you know that those in your family who are better off financially/economically hold more sway over others and are more respectfully treated by others and even heard much more(doesn't matter if what they say is stupid or not. lol ). That's how life is, it's human nature. You don't beg for respect/equal treatment, you earn it. Nobody will respect a poor/destitute country who has no economic/financial/technological capability and whose citizens find it difficult to meets ends needs. That's how the world works. You and i might feel it's unfair, but the world doesn't care about anybody's feeling. We have to be realistic and face life issues head on.
So i see no reason you should feel Pakistan isn't treated fairly/equally. You get treated according the the power/influence/wealth you wield. You think back in the 50s/60s China was regarded the same way they are now regarded today? the hell even south Korea was not regarded/treated the same way they are today. etc. So people need to learn this hard reality of life.
 
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jamahir

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@3:43


This is huge!! Biggest ever scientific project in Pakistan history, yet no one is picking on it?
You can actually see Pakistani engineers working on Chinese facilities in the clip.
Hi, yes this is major but I think exploration of the Moon will always be junior to exploration of Mars. I am sure when a SpaceX Starship craft will do an roundabout of Mars orbit in 2026 as promised, and set an example, China and Russia will begin to devote a lot of their resources towards Mars settlement and exploration.

Pakistan should more keenly look at Mars than the Moon. AFAIK even water is not easily available on the Moon.

@ps3linux @Hamartia Antidote
 

Taimoor Khan

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Come on guys, be realistic. This is reality not fantasy. How did the US treat Pakistan like garbage? you guys were allies and worked together when you had a common threat. Reason the US provided many of its cutting edge weapons to Pakistan back then, especially after the Soviets intervention in Afghanistan. The US provided huge amount of aid to Pakistan , no denying that. The dynamics of course have changed today, so you cant expect that same level of support/cooperation.

Moreover since when is life fair that every country will/should be treated equally? lol Even in your family do you think everybody is treated the same way. I'm sure you know that those in your family who are better off financially/economically hold more sway over others and are more respectfully treated by others and even heard much more(doesn't matter if what they say is stupid or not. lol ). That's how life is, it's human nature. You don't beg for respect/equal treatment, you earn it. Nobody will respect a poor/destitute country who has no economic/financial/technological capability and whose citizens find it difficult to meets ends needs. That's how the world works. You and i might feel it's unfair, but the world doesn't care about anybody's feeling. We have to be realistic and face life issues head on.
So i see no reason you should feel Pakistan isn't treated fairly/equally. You get treated according the the power/influence/wealth you wield. You think back in the 50s/60s China was regarded the same way they are now regarded today? the hell even Koreans was not regarded the same way they are today. etc. So people need to learn this hard reality of life.

Ofourse geopolitics revolve around national interests. That is not the issue.

Level of access Pakistan got into Chinese technology and knowhow is unprecedented. They are just not selling us their toys (like yanks did back in the days) they are sharing with us tech so we can build stuff on our own, inhouse. I dont have to remind you how many projects, specially in military field were done with China. Name me one such project with America.

Pakistan never got access to American space program and endeavours. Where as India, which just recently (post 90s) allied itself with yanks and got full support from organizations like NASA with their own space program. Mark my words, you will soon see Pakistani astronauts working in Chinese space station in not so distant future. Something which you will never see within western lead ISS.

China is Pakistani neighbour as well. A fact which people keep on forgetting. A market of billion plus nation. However you look at it, it doesnt make any sense for Pakistan to look elsewhere and join some other camp with nations oceans apart.
 

Taimoor Khan

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Hi, yes this is major but I think exploration of the Moon will always be junior to exploration of Mars. I am sure when a SpaceX Starship craft will do an roundabout of Mars orbit in 2026 as promised, and set an example, China and Russia will begin to devote a lot of their resources towards Mars settlement and exploration.

Pakistan should more keenly look at Mars than the Moon. AFAIK even water is not easily available on the Moon.

@ps3linux @Hamartia Antidote
China has already got its rover on Mars and I am sure they are sampling it out.

See all this as a extension of BRI into the space. I dont think China is interested in competition with any other nation, its primary objective is the resource gathering outside Earth, mining.

As for Pakistan, we are under no illusion of being a supa powa , just because some super is our ally (unlike a country in the east). We understand our limitations. Basically, wherever China ventures, we will tag along and learn form experience.
 

mike2000 is back

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Ofourse geopolitics revolve around national interests. That is not the issue.

Level of access Pakistan got into Chinese technology and knowhow is unprecedented. They are just not selling us their toys (like yanks did back in the days) they are sharing with us tech so we can build stuff on our own, inhouse. I dont have to remind you how many projects, specially in military field were done with China. Name me one such project with America.

Pakistan never got access to American space program and endeavours. Where as India, which just recently (post 90s) allied itself with yanks and got full support from organizations like NASA with their own space program. Mark my words, you will soon see Pakistani astronauts working in Chinese space station in not so distant future. Something which you will never see within western lead ISS.

China is Pakistani neighbour as well. A fact which people keep on forgetting. A market of billion plus nation. However you look at it, it doesnt make any sense for Pakistan to look elsewhere and join some other camp with nations oceans apart.
Yes, but then again ever asked yourself why they are willing to this just with Pakistan and no other country(not even with North Korea with whom they have the similar cultural/ideological/political system and even a mutual defence treaty)? Obviously because Pakistan and China have a shared common interest and common wariness against India, and Pakistan has been the country's most reliable/steadfast ally throughout this past decades. Do you think your ties will be the same if China and India never had no border issue whatsoever ? or even if they manage to solve their border issue and resume friendly ties?
In short it's obviously about interests as well, and moreover Pakistan also offers access to the Indian/Arabian ocean for the Chinese, which can help bypass the US controlled Malacca straits in times of conflict/threats/sea blockade etc. So China obviously has a lot of stake in getting engaged in Pakistan due to its strategic location and also proximity to its fragile hinterland Xinjiang and proximity to a lawless Afghanistan etc. etc. In short Pakistan has been lucky due to a collection of circumstances which has led to the current level of trust and strategic investments.
However, that doesn't means your leaders should sit on their laurels and get complacent with unconditional Chinese support. If there is one thing that has been proven in history its that there are no permanent friends in politics, only permanent interests, and geo political conditions can change at any time. So you should bare this in mind and be ready to strive for independence and building your national strengths as much as possible. Instead of always having the mentality of relying on others largess. You don't know if tomorrow the CCP might even lose power or collapse and replaced by another party/political group which might want to change their foreign policy/priorities. Afterall, you don't believe they will rule China forever do you?
One thing we all know in geo politics is that nothing whatsoever is certain, and the only thing constant in life is CHANGE. So we should always be ready and prepare for any eventuality while making use of the present.
 

Taimoor Khan

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Yes, but then again ever asked yourself why they are willing to this just with Pakistan and no other country(not even with North Korea with whom they have the similar cultural/ideological/political system and even a mutual defence treaty)? Obviously because Pakistan and China have a shared common interest and common wariness against India, and Pakistan has been the country's most reliable/steadfast ally throughout this past decades. Do you think your ties will be the same if China and India never had no border issue whatsoever ? or even if they manage to solve their border issue and resume friendly ties?
In short it's obviously about interests as well, and moreover Pakistan also offers access to the Indian/Arabian ocean for the Chinese, which can help bypass the US controlled Malacca straits in times of conflict/threats/sea blockade etc. So China obviously has a lot of stake in getting engaged in Pakistan due to its strategic location and also proximity to its fragile hinterland Xinjiang and proximity to a lawless Afghanistan etc. etc. In short Pakistan has been lucky due to a collection of circumstances which has led to the current level of trust and strategic investments.
However, that doesn't means your leaders should sit on their laurels and get complacent with unconditional Chinese support. If there is one thing that has been proven in history its that there are no permanent friends in politics, only permanent interests, and geo political conditions can change at any time. So you should bare this in mind and be ready to strive for independence and building your national strengths as much as possible. Instead of always having the mentality of relying on others largess. You don't know if tomorrow the CCP might even lose power or collapse and replaced by another party/political group which might want to change their foreign policy/priorities. Afterall, you don't believe they will rule China forever do you?
One thing we all know in geo politics is that nothing whatsoever is certain, and the only thing constant in life is CHANGE. So we should always be ready and prepare for any eventuality while making use of the present.
I cant argue with any points you raise. And indeed there is a worry within Pakistan that we cannot sit on laurels and not build our own internal national strength. But regardless, the geography will remain, Chinese will remain Pakistan's neighbour. Irrespective of who stays in power in both country.

One thing do bother me. It's the lack of Pakistani efforts in capturing Chiense markets. Pakistani policy makers are more concerned about retaining GSP+ status with EU , and American markets , oceans apart, bending backwards for them over non sensical issues like human rights etc or whatever tantrums they like to throw at Pakistan, then having a trade agreement with world biggest market just across the border. Economic ties triumph everything and are immune to geopolitical changes.
 

Globenim

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Last century: China will collapse any moment
Last decade: haha Chinas first moon rover got stuck
Last year: haha Russia will build it own spacestation! China abondoned!
Last month: haha China depends on ESA satelites for its Mars mission
Last week: okay so ESA is cooperating with Chinas spacestation but but China steal cannot innovate
The day before: okay so Russia is cooperating with Chinas spacestation too but but China copy china cannot innovate
Yesteday: okay so Russia and China work on a moonstation now that has never been done before but but America will be on Mars maybe
Today: Pleaeeese Pakistan dont join Chinas space programm we will even give you a visitor seat on a commercial rocket!

Not to belittle Pakistan here but the cope of these coolaid drinking trolls and NSA bots is getting rather pathetic these days.
 

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