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China aims to capture Arunachal Pradesh/Southern Tibet in next 10-15 years

MultaniGuy

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China will only go to war to get South Tibet only when they have an absolute advantage against India.
 

magra

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this "pact" gives india some support but also brings with it insurmountable obstacles. for one, even if india/china become close friends, china will never allow any vote to pass that allows japan to get a UNSC permanent seat. this is a non-negotiable. and not just china, but countries like Korea will fight tooth and nail against japan gaining a seat.
Thats the key word - China will not allow. Why should China or any other P5 member has such extra power? A total UN reform is needed.
 

applesauce

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Thats the key word - China will not allow. Why should China or any other P5 member has such extra power? A total UN reform is needed.
They have such extra power because they have the hard power and influence to back it up.

the current set up is fine for the most part. afterall the current P5, is the most complete militaries in the world. they all have fusion nukes and can pretty much produce everything a modern military needs in house. and they all have far reaching influence. for example, when something happens in the middle east or africa, many times people ask, "what does the us/france/uk/russia/china think about this situation and what actions might they take", this is not so for pretty much any other country unless it was next door to them.

cases in point,
the iran nuclear deal was signed by the P5 and germany+EU
when israel and hamas has a ceasefire, news will report what the US reactions are, what the EU reactions are and what the chinese reactions are to the news, but you wont find them telling you what mali thinks about it for instance(unless maybe it was mali news that was reporting).
when a chinese diplomat says "shut up" it makes world news.

Countries like Brazil and india does not have enough influence outside of its immediate area.
Germany is entirely dependent on the US for defense thus wouldn't be on a UN security council.

India is of course the most likely nation to be able to gather enough hard power and influence to get a seat, but it is not there yet.
 

magra

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They have such extra power because they have the hard power and influence to back it up.

the current set up is fine for the most part. afterall the current P5, is the most complete militaries in the world. they all have fusion nukes and can pretty much produce everything a modern military needs in house. and they all have far reaching influence. for example, when something happens in the middle east or africa, many times people ask, "what does the us/france/uk/russia/china think about this situation and what actions might they take", this is not so for pretty much any other country unless it was next door to them.

cases in point,
the iran nuclear deal was signed by the P5 and germany+EU
when israel and hamas has a ceasefire, news will report what the US reactions are, what the EU reactions are and what the chinese reactions are to the news, but you wont find them telling you what mali thinks about it for instance(unless maybe it was mali news that was reporting).
when a chinese diplomat says "shut up" it makes world news.

Countries like Brazil and india does not have enough influence outside of its immediate area.
Germany is entirely dependent on the US for defense thus wouldn't be on a UN security council.

India is of course the most likely nation to be able to gather enough hard power and influence to get a seat, but it is not there yet.
US, China and Russia have the hard power and influence.
However, that of UK and France have gone down. They are just sidekicks to US today.

No one bothers about UK's or France's influence in Middle east or Latin America or East Asia. Whatever influence they have is due to the fact that they have P5 veto power.
Today, Germany is the economic powerhouse of EU. They only lack in military power and that is because they choose to avoid spending money on it. Similarly Japan.

If you objectively look at the current position, UK and France no longer deserve the P5 status. And given US, Russia and China's influence, they do not need veto power. If they want to oppose something, they should rather rely on their influence to get necessary votes to oppose.
 

Sainthood 101

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The plan to replace UK with India in P5 is doomed to fail and anyways will not lead to UN reform. So no thanks.

There was no Pakistan at that time. That land and that culture belonged to India and Indian culture.
He belongs to Punjab period

Other stuff is usual Indian culture vulture s*** they like to pull

If you like to call a Tamil and punjabi Indian, frickin call it that cause a European can also be a Frenchmen and Englishman

Doesn't mean they're same thing

So he belongs to Punjab, born in Gujaranwala

So we call him Punjabi, don't try to hijack his identity

He is punjabi first like Frenchmen is french first than European

His punjabi identity is his first identity, don't hijack it
 

magra

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He belongs to Punjab period

Other stuff is usual Indian culture vulture s*** they like to pull

If you like to call a Tamil and punjabi Indian, frickin call it that cause a European can also be a Frenchmen and Englishman

Doesn't mean they're same thing

So he belongs to Punjab, born in Gujaranwala

So we call him Punjabi, don't try to hijack his identity

He is punjabi first like Frenchmen is french first than European

His punjabi identity is his first identity, don't hijack it
He is both an Indian and a Punjabi. I never said that he isnt a Punjabi.
BTW - not many ppl in your side of Punjab like him. So why are you even worried if we do hijack his identity.
Pakistanis, in general, do not like any non-Muslim past and we are happy to take all that. Win-win for both, dont you think.
 

Titanium100

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He belongs to Punjab period

Other stuff is usual Indian culture vulture s*** they like to pull

If you like to call a Tamil and punjabi Indian, frickin call it that cause a European can also be a Frenchmen and Englishman

Doesn't mean they're same thing

So he belongs to Punjab, born in Gujaranwala

So we call him Punjabi, don't try to hijack his identity

He is punjabi first like Frenchmen is french first than European

His punjabi identity is his first identity, don't hijack it
You nailed it. India is a continent not a nation and never was a nation. Yes some conquerors like Mughal, Delhi sultanate, Ashkoa etc etc and few others managed to unify a large territory but it was not because of a single unified country they were just conquerors who expanded their territories but as one entity there has never been such thing as India.. Hence majority of the time there were kingdoms inside India along ethnic lines across that continent
 

applesauce

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US, China and Russia have the hard power and influence.
However, that of UK and France have gone down. They are just sidekicks to US today.

No one bothers about UK's or France's influence in Middle east or Latin America or East Asia. Whatever influence they have is due to the fact that they have P5 veto power.
Today, Germany is the economic powerhouse of EU. They only lack in military power and that is because they choose to avoid spending money on it. Similarly Japan.

If you objectively look at the current position, UK and France no longer deserve the P5 status. And given US, Russia and China's influence, they do not need veto power. If they want to oppose something, they should rather rely on their influence to get necessary votes to oppose.
france and Britain still retain bases around the world that allows for power projection and is hugely influential in their former colonies.

just google the number of nations that still have french as a primary or secondary language in africa.

these are all important influences that gives them say in the world beyond just being on the P5.

and yes, germany and japan are quite wealthy nations, but again it is beyond just money, unless germany actually unites europe beyond just the current EU model, it does not have the power projection nor influence all around the world. neither does japan
 

magra

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france and Britain still retain bases around the world that allows for power projection and is hugely influential in their former colonies.
Those puny bases are just from old times. They do not project any real power.

just google the number of nations that still have french as a primary or secondary language in africa.
So does Spanish in Latin America, so whats your point.

and yes, germany and japan are quite wealthy nations, but again it is beyond just money, unless germany actually unites europe beyond just the current EU model, it does not have the power projection nor influence all around the world. neither does japan
At the end, its about money. Germany and Japan can amp up its military power in a decade if they so desire. They both have ample money for it.
You nailed it. India is a continent not a nation and never was a nation. Yes some conquerors like Mughal, Delhi sultanate, Ashkoa etc etc and few others managed to unify a large territory but it was not because of a single unified country they were just conquerors who expanded their territories but as one entity there has never been such thing as India.. Hence majority of the time there were kingdoms inside India along ethnic lines across that continent
India is a continental sized nation. Just like USA, Canada, China, Russia, Australia, Brazil etc.
 

MH.Yang

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US, China and Russia have the hard power and influence.
However, that of UK and France have gone down. They are just sidekicks to US today.

No one bothers about UK's or France's influence in Middle east or Latin America or East Asia. Whatever influence they have is due to the fact that they have P5 veto power.
Today, Germany is the economic powerhouse of EU. They only lack in military power and that is because they choose to avoid spending money on it. Similarly Japan.

If you objectively look at the current position, UK and France no longer deserve the P5 status. And given US, Russia and China's influence, they do not need veto power. If they want to oppose something, they should rather rely on their influence to get necessary votes to oppose.
For example, USA. Every time the UN votes on sanctions and condemnation of Israel, the result is the USA and Israel VS. the rest of the world. If the USA does not have the veto power to overturn the voting result, then the outcome is that the USA will veto it by force. The war is coming again.
The same is true for the Crimea vote. Russia vs the world. You know the consequences of depriving Russia of its veto. China also has a red line that does not allow provocation.
France has far more influence in Africa than other countries, and the USA and China together are not as good as France.
The UN needs France's influence in Africa, otherwise there will be endless wars and an endless stream of refugees in Africa.
As for Britain, I agree that this country is really not qualified to stand with other P5.
However, if Britain is deprived of its seat on the Security Council in a way inconsistent with the Charter, it will shake the legitimacy of the whole UN. So other P5 members will certainly support Britain.
 

Sainthood 101

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He is both an Indian and a Punjabi. I never said that he isnt a Punjabi.
BTW - not many ppl in your side of Punjab like him. So why are you even worried if we do hijack his identity.
Pakistanis, in general, do not like any non-Muslim past and we are happy to take all that. Win-win for both, dont you think.
CP people adore him but rest of the Pakistan thinks he is controversial (which I respect despite me not fully agreeing with them) because he conquered thier lands, so Pakistanis don't like him but his motherland where he was born and grew up in love him, so it's unfair to hijack his identity and paint it in broad brush of everything that ever happened in Indus belongs to present day political identity of India and not to the actual people who share blood lines with thier ancestors

But this is going OT so let's pick it up some other time

But you know you riled up the old centeral Punjabi in me, had all sort of Punjabi courses in mind rn(jk) 😁 ...
 

magra

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For example, USA. Every time the UN votes on sanctions and condemnation of Israel, the result is the USA and Israel VS. the rest of the world. If the USA does not have the veto power to overturn the voting result, then the outcome is that the USA will veto it by force. The war is coming again.
The same is true for the Crimea vote. Russia vs the world. You know the consequences of depriving Russia of its veto. China also has a red line that does not allow provocation.
France has far more influence in Africa than other countries, and the USA and China together are not as good as France.
The UN needs France's influence in Africa, otherwise there will be endless wars and an endless stream of refugees in Africa.
As for Britain, I agree that this country is really not qualified to stand with other P5.
However, if Britain is deprived of its seat on the Security Council in a way inconsistent with the Charter, it will shake the legitimacy of the whole UN. So other P5 members will certainly support Britain.
Many of the injustices prevail because P5 know they have the security of veto power.
Without it, USA's ally Israel would not be so brazen in its violation of fundamental rights of Palestinians.

Without veto, Russia probably would not have invaded Crimea. And China would not probably have pressed its preposterous claims over entire South China Sea.
CP people adore him but rest of the Pakistan thinks he is controversial (which I respect despite me not fully agreeing with them) because he conquered thier lands, so Pakistanis don't like him but his motherland where he was born and grew up in love him, so it's unfair to hijack his identity and paint it in broad brush of everything that ever happened in Indus belongs to present day political identity of India and not to the actual people who share blood lines with thier ancestors

But this is going OT so let's pick it up some other time

But you know you riled up the old centeral Punjabi in me, had all sort of Punjabi courses in mind rn(jk) 😁 ...
Just to sign off on this OT topic. By claiming his and other pre-partition / non-muslim legacy, we are not denying your claim. You can continue to claim too. Just like we dont get jealous if you claim Mughal legacy, although most of Mughal territories were within present day India.
 

MH.Yang

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Many of the injustices prevail because P5 know they have the security of veto power.
Without it, USA's ally Israel would not be so brazen in its violation of fundamental rights of Palestinians.

Without veto, Russia probably would not have invaded Crimea. And China would not probably have pressed its preposterous claims over entire South China Sea.

Just to sign off on this OT topic. By claiming his and other pre-partition / non-muslim legacy, we are not denying your claim. You can continue to claim too. Just like we dont get jealous if you claim Mughal legacy, although most of Mughal territories were within present day India.
As far as I know, Israel is an ally of India.

All countries in the South China Sea claim sovereignty over the whole South China Sea. Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia and so on. Their claimed area is as large as China. Why is China alone absurd?
At least China did not use force to solve these problem, and China did not use its national strength to duress other countries. China has always solved problems through negotiations, China even agreed to jointly develop the South China Sea.
India is the country that likes to solve problems by force. Indian is a bully who like to bully surrounding countries. So Indians have no right to talk about justice.
 

magra

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As far as I know, Israel is an ally of India.
India is a friend of Israel as is India a friend of Palestine and US and Russia.
Being friends does not mean you agree on each aspect. See India's voting record in UN. It has voted against Israel several times.

All countries in the South China Sea claim sovereignty over the whole South China Sea. Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia and so on. Their claimed area is as large as China. Why is China alone absurd?
At least China did not use force to solve these problem, and China did not use its national strength to duress other countries. China has always solved problems through negotiations, China even agreed to jointly develop the South China Sea.
Other nations's claims are much smaller and reasonable. See the map of claim lines

1631842213739.png


India is the country that likes to solve problems by force. Indian is a bully who like to bully surrounding countries. So Indians have no right to talk about justice.
What makes you say India uses force to settle issues? Ask Bangladesh with which India solved its territorial water issues through arbitration. India lost more marine area but accepted the decision. Similarly, the enclaves with BD were settled peacefully, with India losing more land.
We did not capture Pak administered Kashmir despite defeating them in 1971 war.
 

SIPRA

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As far as I know, Israel is an ally of India.

All countries in the South China Sea claim sovereignty over the whole South China Sea. Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia and so on. Their claimed area is as large as China. Why is China alone absurd?
At least China did not use force to solve these problem, and China did not use its national strength to duress other countries. China has always solved problems through negotiations, China even agreed to jointly develop the South China Sea.
India is the country that likes to solve problems by force. Indian is a bully who like to bully surrounding countries. So Indians have no right to talk about justice.
In the last days of 1962 China-India war, India received a ship load of military hardware from Israel. In order to keep it secret, Nehru requesed that the ship shall not come with the flag, but they declined and that ship came with the flag.

India is the most hypocrite state on the face of the earth and they only understand the language of force.
 

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