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China abandons “zero cause” policy after the riots

Beast

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China can't manufacture all they need (specially all that wish Chinese elite). But USA can, and EU is not needed.
Disagree with this statement. It's US who can't manufacture all they need. The whole western basically need China for many of their finished products.

If not, why they are still running huge trade deficiency even they are so afraid of rising China? You really think they would like to boast China economy? It's choice out of no choice.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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That's because we are profiting mostly from providing design, software and software as a service, whereas you profit the most from manufacturing.

For example Waze, the app is free. We could profit much more by selling it to google for 1.1 billion dollars (they value it for the data and the fact the could integrate it with their own software for example google maps) than we can profit by keeping it ours and giving the app away for free, and if we gave the app a price it wouldn't be nearly as popular.

Or MobilEye being bought by intel for 15 billion dollars, we would take years (if it's even possible) to make such money by selling road danger alert kits to unprotected cars, but Intel values it more, because they want to break into the self driving industry and they need the expertise.

So yeah, we could "keep it ours" and wait years until we make a significant profit, or we could sell it for billions in a single day, profit more than we would profit for 10 or more years, keep the high quality jobs in Israel and get working on the next startup the next day, and then sell it within the next few months.

Yeah, the fact Intel and Samsung have many plants in China makes China an advanced industry, who gives a **** about the owner? If you travel Israel 70 or 80 percent of the high tech company centers aren't Israeli. They are deploying in Israel to use its human resources which they see fit. If the people are capable of running it that means the people are also capable of replicating the plant eventually.

Well Shavit launcher only was launched 11 times and failed 2 times (So success rate is 82 percent) and both of the failures are of the Shavit-1, both of them occured over 18 years ago, Shavit-2 has 100 percent success rate. But it isn't really fair to talk about statistics because there weren't enough launches.


I don't know, I feel like countries like Israel and Singapore are far more successful relative to their size than the bigger countries are.
In China, we feel somewhat of a shame if we don't fully own something, it means that it isn't really ours. A Samsung or SK Hynix plant in China is considered Korean even if there's only a single Korean working there, since that single Korean is the one setting the policies. Indeed we feel that the presence of a foreign company in China is because we were unable to harness the talents of the workers, and now they're forced to work for foreigners instead.

Even in software, Chinese companies try to grow rather than sell. Bytedance refused to sell TikTok at any price. Mihoyo could've sold to Tencent after Honkai Impact, but developed Genshin Impact instead and now are huge. Alibaba and JD.com never sold to each other even when one or the other gains an upper hand.

Israel and Singapore are successful because they are riding the tip of the wave, while bigger countries like China, US, Russia, etc. have to build the foundations starting from bolts and screws. Someone has to turn rocks into steel, crude oil into fuel, sand into silicon. A country of 5 million people can get rich from software, finance and assembling components, a country of 1 billion cannot.
 

Stranagor

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China's Xi unwilling to accept vaccines despite threat from protests: US intel​


WASHINGTON - Chinese leader Xi Jinping is unwilling to accept Western vaccines despite the challenges China is facing with Covid-19, and while recent protests there are not a threat to Communist Party rule, they could affect his personal standing, US Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said on Saturday.

Although China’s daily Covid-19 cases are near all-time highs, some cities are taking steps to loosen testing and quarantine rules after Mr Xi’s zero-Covid-19 policy triggered a sharp economic slowdown and public unrest.

Ms Haines, speaking at the annual Reagan National Defence Forum in California, said that despite the social and economic impact of the virus, Mr Xi “is unwilling to take a better vaccine from the West, and is instead relying on a vaccine in China that’s just not nearly as effective against Omicron”.

...
 

Dungeness

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China's Xi unwilling to accept vaccines despite threat from protests: US intel​


WASHINGTON - Chinese leader Xi Jinping is unwilling to accept Western vaccines despite the challenges China is facing with Covid-19, and while recent protests there are not a threat to Communist Party rule, they could affect his personal standing, US Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said on Saturday.

Although China’s daily Covid-19 cases are near all-time highs, some cities are taking steps to loosen testing and quarantine rules after Mr Xi’s zero-Covid-19 policy triggered a sharp economic slowdown and public unrest.

Ms Haines, speaking at the annual Reagan National Defence Forum in California, said that despite the social and economic impact of the virus, Mr Xi “is unwilling to take a better vaccine from the West, and is instead relying on a vaccine in China that’s just not nearly as effective against Omicron”.

...


After he saw what the West did to Huawei and Chinese vital chip industries, he would be insane to trust the West for vaccine.
 

etylo

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China's Xi unwilling to accept vaccines despite threat from protests: US intel​


WASHINGTON - Chinese leader Xi Jinping is unwilling to accept Western vaccines despite the challenges China is facing with Covid-19, and while recent protests there are not a threat to Communist Party rule, they could affect his personal standing, US Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said on Saturday.

Although China’s daily Covid-19 cases are near all-time highs, some cities are taking steps to loosen testing and quarantine rules after Mr Xi’s zero-Covid-19 policy triggered a sharp economic slowdown and public unrest.

Ms Haines, speaking at the annual Reagan National Defence Forum in California, said that despite the social and economic impact of the virus, Mr Xi “is unwilling to take a better vaccine from the West, and is instead relying on a vaccine in China that’s just not nearly as effective against Omicron”.

...
Why should china use western vaccines ? The west just want to show its superiority ego in China, western vaccines cant save china by getting rid of the pandemic, Chinese vaccines are good enough to control the pandemic. Dont talk of the BS that China needs the west to save.
 
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Zsari

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I dont foresee any USA economic collapse.

It's ridiculous, USA have a lot of slave pieces to sacrificie before his own collapse.

EU economic collapse, yeah, that's likely before one decade. And the saving of energy and raw materials that European waste will allow a one hundred years of USA dominance more.

China just should watch carefully that Israel wont start Amargeddon launching a first strike against Iran, that' all.

It's something against own Israel state interests, so it's easy to avoid.

No. US will not collapse, but turning to isolationism is probable as its dominance wane. And as to Israel, China isn’t hostile to it at all. But without US protection, its conflicts with the neighboring countries however is another matter.
 

Zsari

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Well apparently you're about to get millions of deaths now so what is it worth?

If millions of people die as the result of lifting the zero covid policy, the Chinese government can simply point the finger at the protesters and the foreign agitators behind them for ultimately responsible for these death.
 

beijingwalker

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After he saw what the West did to Huawei and Chinese vital chip industries, he would be insane to trust the West for vaccine.
US even refuses to use Chinese 5G technology with the excuse of fearing compromising US security, and shouldn't China worry about "compromosing" Chinese people's health.
 

Rollno21

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Why they had to lockdown in the first place ,I thought majority have been vaccinated in China.
 

Dungeness

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If millions of people die as the result of lifting the zero covid policy, the Chinese government can simply point the finger at the protesters and the foreign agitators behind them for ultimately responsible for these death.

No, it's the West who will point finger at Chinese government for failing to control the virus and kill a million Chinese, and then spread 4th wave around the world.

The West will always find a way to accuse China of something, no matter what and how China did.
 

Beny Karachun

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In China, we feel somewhat of a shame if we don't fully own something, it means that it isn't really ours. A Samsung or SK Hynix plant in China is considered Korean even if there's only a single Korean working there, since that single Korean is the one setting the policies. Indeed we feel that the presence of a foreign company in China is because we were unable to harness the talents of the workers, and now they're forced to work for foreigners instead.

Even in software, Chinese companies try to grow rather than sell. Bytedance refused to sell TikTok at any price. Mihoyo could've sold to Tencent after Honkai Impact, but developed Genshin Impact instead and now are huge. Alibaba and JD.com never sold to each other even when one or the other gains an upper hand.

Israel and Singapore are successful because they are riding the tip of the wave, while bigger countries like China, US, Russia, etc. have to build the foundations starting from bolts and screws. Someone has to turn rocks into steel, crude oil into fuel, sand into silicon. A country of 5 million people can get rich from software, finance and assembling components, a country of 1 billion cannot.
We don't care about that. Yeah it's pride to the country and all of that we obviously are proud of that but we at the end of the day out industry is advanced and our citizens are getting high end jobs and a lot of money and turn our country richer. And that's what's important.

Growing companies is nice and all, but we believe quick and large money frequently at minimum investment is better than making some huge corporation for a lot of effort that could certainly will crash one day. That's basically the difference between long term investor and a short term trader. The companies that we grow are companies that are considered a national asset like the NSO, Elbit, IAI, Rafael. Usually defense and cyber companies, and they make some of the best stuff in the world in their fields.

China has more than 1 billion people and a pretty smart population, this automatically makes them way better at manufacturing in general and high tech manufacturing specifically, so it invests in manufacturing. Because manufacturing benefits from volume.

Software benefits from quality, that's why you sometimes see countries with tens or hundreds of millions and they can't develop anything of value. Israel exceptionally has that quality.

I would say your claim is wrong, you have the US that a significant part of its income comes from tech giants, and they are 350 million people that got pretty rich.

But yeah, someone has to do it, and China profits from that.

If millions of people die as the result of lifting the zero covid policy, the Chinese government can simply point the finger at the protesters and the foreign agitators behind them for ultimately responsible for these death.
It won't happen though, it's just the false narrative you pushed to legitimise the lockdown for the last year
 

BHAN85

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Disagree with this statement. It's US who can't manufacture all they need. The whole western basically need China for many of their finished products.

If not, why they are still running huge trade deficiency even they are so afraid of rising China? You really think they would like to boast China economy? It's choice out of no choice.
They buy to China because China manufactures cheaper.

Just one recent example: mRNA vaccines are USA technology.

The same with expensive luxury items, like cars, airplanes, electronic devices and so on.

Anyway, even without the economic part, USA is militarily strong enough to nobody wants to make troubles to them.

EU (with the exception of France) is not strong, EU will be collapsed, likely, in the next years, and living standards will decrease to African level. That will solve any world economic problems due to shortage of raw materials or energy in the next decades.
 

merzifonlu

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After he saw what the West did to Huawei and Chinese vital chip industries, he would be insane to trust the West for vaccine.
What the West is doing to Huawei or the Chinese semiconductor industry has nothing to do with the Covid-19 vaccine. The West will suffer if the disease is allowed to spread uncontrollably in China. Therefore, they do not cause problems with vaccination. Each case should be judged on its own terms.

Let Xi Jinping stop bullshit and get China people vaccinated with western vaccines immediately, and abandon this ridiculous "zero case" policy. Otherwise, global inflation will not be controlled.
 

Dungeness

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What the West is doing to Huawei or the Chinese semiconductor industry has nothing to do with the Covid-19 vaccine. The West will suffer if the disease is allowed to spread uncontrollably in China. Therefore, they do not cause problems with vaccination. Each case should be judged on its own terms.

Let Xi Jinping stop bullshit and get China people vaccinated with western vaccines immediately, and abandon this ridiculous "zero case" policy. Otherwise, global inflation will not be controlled.

LOL, that's BS! China is the only country that is still fighting COVID, the rest of world has long been given up and opened legs for COVID and almost everyone has been already infected, 94% in the US and that's with "Western Vaccine" .

Are you blaming China's "stupid" Zero Covid policy for your stupid 80% inflation? :cheesy:
 

Stranagor

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Lockdowns, draconian quarantines where people are treated horribly, business closures, billions spent on mass PCR tests...

To what end really?

Certainly, some people got crazy rich out of this. Hence allegations of fake test results by the test companies. I bet those people already secured Canadian or US residency.

What's the end result? A weak, unimmunized population on the cusp of a probably equally chaotic, scary opening up, which will disrupt business equally badly as lockdowns and quarantines.

Making fun of the US, India and the rest of the world for their rational choices may have helped the Party score points. But, it won't help regular people.

China should have walked with the world, not against it. Who really admires, or even distantly remembers, Chinese Dream now?

***



More than 2 million​

Zhou Jiatong, head of the Center for Disease Control in southwestern Guangxi region, said last month in a paper published by the Shanghai Journal of Preventive Medicine that mainland China faces more than 2 million deaths if it loosened its Covid-19 curbs in the same way Hong Kong did this year.

Infections could rise to more than 233 million, his forecast showed.

1.55 million​

In May, scientists in China and the United States estimated that China risked just over 1.5 million Covid-19 deaths if it drops its tough zero-Covid-19 policy without any safeguards such as ramping up vaccination and access to treatments, according to research published in Nature Medicine.

They forecasted that peak demand on intensive care would be more than 15 times capacity, causing roughly 1.5 million deaths, based on worldwide data gathered about the variant’s severity.

However, the researchers, the lead authors among whom were from Fudan University in China, said the death toll could be reduced sharply if there was a focus on vaccination.

Up to 2.1 million​

China could see 1.3 million to 2.1 million people die if it lifts its zero-Covid-19 policy due to low vaccination and booster rates as well as a lack of hybrid immunity, British scientific information and analytics company Airfinity said on Monday.

The company said it modelled its data on Hong Kong’s BA.1 wave in February, which occurred after the city eased restrictions after two years. REUTERS
 

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