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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

serenity

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I agree with the rest of what you said, but I didn’t mean a new AESA for Pakistani J-10Cs, just a different one. A new one would obviously cost a lot more and is unrealistic.

China doesn’t make one 2nd Gen AESA, even the J-10 from my memory doesn’t use a single type (given the radomes shape), I meant more along the lines of them changing it to make it more similar to the JFs (upscaled?) or just modified for certain things (thinking off How F7PG project went back in the day). Making it closer to JFs radar might actually save money instead, as long as it doesn’t negatively effect performance.
Yes it has more than one type of 2nd gen AESA since J-16's AESA and J-10C's are both part of 2nd gen and also let's include the J-11D's which is now being used for J-11B upgrades.

But even out of these three, only the J-10C's fit the J-10 and is specifically designed for it. When you say China has more than one 2nd gen for just J-10 fighter platform, I do not know what you mean. They have some slight differences in between them maybe for example the first J-10C from around 2017 with radar surely completed and tested on even J-10B models well before 2017. That particular radar might be slightly different to J-10C produced in 2021 but they should be considered the same platform. So any J-10C Pakistan buys will have a J-10C radar that has been developed already of course with changes due to operations between difference airforces.

Developing a new AESA is extremely difficult and expensive. Producing a new one may not be so difficult but comes at cost of manufacturing capacity shared between more product lines or cost of setting totally new production chain. For this reason I doubt a new AESA will be developed or produced for Pakistan. It will be some form of J-10C's current radar from 2021 just with the slight differences that are just necessary for PAF.
 

applesauce

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Yes it has more than one type of 2nd gen AESA since J-16's AESA and J-10C's are both part of 2nd gen and also let's include the J-11D's which is now being used for J-11B upgrades.

But even out of these three, only the J-10C's fit the J-10 and is specifically designed for it. When you say China has more than one 2nd gen for just J-10 fighter platform, I do not know what you mean. They have some slight differences in between them maybe for example the first J-10C from around 2017 with radar surely completed and tested on even J-10B models well before 2017. That particular radar might be slightly different to J-10C produced in 2021 but they should be considered the same platform. So any J-10C Pakistan buys will have a J-10C radar that has been developed already of course with changes due to operations between difference airforces.

Developing a new AESA is extremely difficult and expensive. Producing a new one may not be so difficult but comes at cost of manufacturing capacity shared between more product lines or cost of setting totally new production chain. For this reason I doubt a new AESA will be developed or produced for Pakistan. It will be some form of J-10C's current radar from 2021 just with the slight differences that are just necessary for PAF.
there were multiple AESA radars proposed for the j-10C, only one won out and is installed of course, but there were other prototypes made.
 

serenity

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there were multiple AESA radars proposed for the j-10C, only one won out and is installed of course, but there were other prototypes made.
Yeah definitely but do you thiink those would be used for Pakistan's J-10? I doubt it. Unless they finish those products for Pakistan which would cost more money than the existing J-10C's radar. And since the existing one is completed and better since it won, then why bother spending money to complete the other one?
 

HRK

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Yeah definitely but do you thiink those would be used for Pakistan's J-10? I doubt it. Unless they finish those products for Pakistan which would cost more money than the existing J-10C's radar. And since the existing one is completed and better since it won, then why bother spending money to complete the other one?
OR may be Pakistan is going to have commonality of AESA radar for entire fleet .... ???

I mean sam as will be used in JF-17 or any other version of already develop KLJ-7A radar fro J-10s .... ???
 

serenity

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OR may be Pakistan is going to have commonality of AESA radar for entire fleet .... ???

I mean sam as will be used in JF-17 or any other version of already develop KLJ-7A radar fro J-10s .... ???
It could be but the JF-17's AESA would be much smaller. Will PAF buy J-10C with existing J-10C radar or choose to fit it with JF-17 block 3's radar? I would choose existing J-10C radar since it should be more suited for the J-10C and is a larger and more powerful AESA. It also is already available so no need to develop anything new. I don't think PAF will change anything related to radar to make J-10C cheaper to buy. It could be many other equipment that is unnecessary.
 

siegecrossbow

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It could be but the JF-17's AESA would be much smaller. Will PAF buy J-10C with existing J-10C radar or choose to fit it with JF-17 block 3's radar? I would choose existing J-10C radar since it should be more suited for the J-10C and is a larger and more powerful AESA. It also is already available so no need to develop anything new. I don't think PAF will change anything related to radar to make J-10C cheaper to buy. It could be many other equipment that is unnecessary.
If that's the case then why even bother buying the J-10C? I think that range and air to surface capabilities might be neutered.
 

serenity

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If that's the case then why even bother buying the J-10C? I think that range and air to surface capabilities might be neutered.
What do you mean? I am saying they will go for J-10C with existing J-10C radar. They will not develop a new one like some are saying. They will also not be using same radar as JF-17 block 3.
 

mdmm

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I heard samething that, when the contract was signed between C and P , there was no such thing to alter the parts, Radar and Missiles for expected J-10c for Pakistan. And now there were news that most of J-10 C are almost ready since a few months ago in China.
Because of having a large numbers of J-10 C , China is now making only J-20 for their Chinese army.

serenity, post: 13336149, member: 2062"]
What do you mean? I am saying they will go for J-10C with existing J-10C radar. They will not develop a new one like some are saying. They will also not be using same radar as JF-17 block 3.
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luciferdd

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I heard samething that, when the contract was signed between C and P , there was no such thing to alter the parts, Radar and Missiles for expected J-10c for Pakistan. And now there were news that most of J-10 C are almost ready since a few months ago in China.
Because of having a large numbers of J-10 C , China is now making only J-20 for their Chinese army.

serenity, post: 13336149, member: 2062"]
What do you mean? I am saying they will go for J-10C with existing J-10C radar. They will not develop a new one like some are saying. They will also not be using same radar as JF-17 block 3.
[/QUOTE]
yes,IMO maybe some equiments will be different for example a different ECM,IFF and a upgraded HUD etc, but the main equiments will be the same for example the radar and engine.And the last chinese government will give a big discount to PAF,so the price of the fighters will be very nice just like four 054A FFGs.
 

Ali_Baba

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There is a big advantage in PAF operating 1 platform that China also operates. It means war time attritions can be easier to replace and emergencies deliveries can be done quickly.

This can only be the case if PAF version is the same as the Chinese variant. So - if PAF is getting the J10, then are both sides working on a common standard that meets both their needs and possibiliy one based off the avonics of the JF17 Block III as the core. ie J10D ?

China has suggested that PAF not make to many custom requirements, in China's case they are thinking of the situation when they provided F7PGs on an emergency basis during the 2000's standoff with India ...... ( and a lesson that PAF has forgotten about ?? ).

China will also buy in bulk a J10D with a chinese engine, as will Pakistan and it will be common version that will allow both air arms to inter-operate easier(eg over Kashmir ) and also provide an emergency/wartime pipleline to the PAF for attrition losses ...

This is my theory - but the only one that seems logical and meets the needs of both PAF and China .
 

Deino

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There is a big advantage in PAF operating 1 platform that China also operates. It means war time attritions can be easier to replace and emergencies deliveries can be done quickly.

This can only be the case if PAF version is the same as the Chinese variant. So - if PAF is getting the J10, then are both sides working on a common standard that meets both their needs and possibiliy one based off the avonics of the JF17 Block III as the core. ie J10D ?

China has suggested that PAF not make to many custom requirements, in China's case they are thinking of the situation when they provided F7PGs on an emergency basis during the 2000's standoff with India ...... ( and a lesson that PAF has forgotten about ?? ).

China will also buy in bulk a J10D with a chinese engine, as will Pakistan and it will be common version that will allow both air arms to inter-operate easier(eg over Kashmir ) and also provide an emergency/wartime pipleline to the PAF for attrition losses ...

This is my theory - but the only one that seems logical and meets the needs of both PAF and China .

There is NO J-10D and by the way, China is already "buying in bulk a J10C with a chinese engine" namely the WS-10B and even more from what we hear, the Pakistani J-10Cs lack certain systems due to budget issues. As such it the PLAAF ones are already more capable.
 
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Cookie Monster

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OR may be Pakistan is going to have commonality of AESA radar for entire fleet .... ???

I mean sam as will be used in JF-17 or any other version of already develop KLJ-7A radar fro J-10s .... ???
J10 can support a bigger radar(with more TRMs)...so it wouldn't make much sense to give it the same radar as that of a light fighter...
...the whole point of acquiring J10 is bcuz of the more capabilities it offers(including its bigger AESA radar) as compared to JF17. If that was to be knocked down to that of JF17s level...that's one less reason to go for J10.
 

mdmm

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Yes-Because Pakistan is buying J-10 C due to additional features and tolls, which are not found in JF-17.Block 3 .
And J-10 C could be upgraded in future.
 

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