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Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

Should Pakistan upgrade its Mirages to South African Cheetah standard if not Beyond?

  • Yes

    Votes: 143 60.6%
  • No

    Votes: 93 39.4%

  • Total voters
    236
Jan 3, 2020
846
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959
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Pakistan
Location
Canada
What would be the replacement of our Mirages, we have 2 option J-10 or MIG-35, what your Choice???
I will tell you one thing and that is that the weapon system that is the PAF is using on the Mirage is solely dedicated to Mirage type air craft and I personally have not seen those Mirage employed weapons on any other PAF type.

The only proper way to replace the mirage is to take a look into those aircraft that have the ability to deploy those weapons effectively and by effective I mean all the physical and link parameters must be met.

Mirage in the PAF is used as a strike/attack aircraft (originally it was a high-speed interceptor) The options that you have given hence the Mig-35 and J-10 both cannot be a proper replacement for the Mirage.

Both types are medium weight multirole fighter aircraft one can say they can fit the role of the F-16.

Right now the replacement for PAF Mirage would be another Mirage of equal or advance type. Lookin into the future and focusing on all the parameters of the role that the Mirages plays would realistically give the PAF 2 options and those are the (one and only savior of the PAF JH-7 ;) and the other option is to Play with Jf-17B …. what I suspect that the PAF will opt for the JF-17b as their deep strike, stand off attack aircraft.





JF-17B
 

Xone

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JF-17B needs little more tinkering in shape of removal of the second seat and filling this space with fuel tank to free the two main hard points for fuel tanks. This will enhance thunder's capability to carry a heavy payload without effecting its ferry range. thus Thunder can perform strike role more efficaciously with the deployment of heavier missiles and bombs to a greater range deep inside the enemy territory. In this way, thunder can phase out marriages without loss of any mission capabilities of PAF. Rather it will free the human resources required for maintaining mirages.
 
Jan 3, 2020
846
0
959
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
JF-17B needs little more tinkering in shape of removal of the second seat and filling this space with fuel tank to free the two main hard points for fuel tanks. This will enhance thunder's capability to carry a heavy payload without effecting its ferry range. thus Thunder can perform strike role more efficaciously with the deployment of heavier missiles and bombs to a greater range deep inside the enemy territory. In this way, thunder can phase out marriages without loss of any mission capabilities of PAF. Rather it will free the human resources required for maintaining mirages.
my god
 

GriffinsRule

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Nov 18, 2015
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JF-17B needs little more tinkering in shape of removal of the second seat and filling this space with fuel tank to free the two main hard points for fuel tanks. This will enhance thunder's capability to carry a heavy payload without effecting its ferry range. thus Thunder can perform strike role more efficaciously with the deployment of heavier missiles and bombs to a greater range deep inside the enemy territory. In this way, thunder can phase out marriages without loss of any mission capabilities of PAF. Rather it will free the human resources required for maintaining mirages.
AKA the original JF-17?
 

Xone

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AKA the original JF-17?
I am not an aeronautical engineer. So pardon me in advance for my lack of knowledge about fighter planes. But let me give my opinion freely.
Single seater JF-17 has less internal fuel carrying capacity, so it has to carry 2 additional drop tanks for its max ferry range, Whereas JF-17B carries more fuel than single seater because of its larger dorsal spine. With the removal of the second seat and addition of another fuel tank will mitigate the need of additional fuel tanks.
. The hard points previously devoted for Drop tanks are now free to carry heavier load near to the center of main frame. It solves the problem of disturbance of the fighter equilibrium in case of firing one on side heavy missile and the scarcity of hard points for weapons.
The mirage can carry only one Ra'ad missile, but with this modification Thunder can carry 2 such missiles at side on hard points to greater range comparatively.
 

GriffinsRule

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I am not an aeronautical engineer. So pardon me in advance for my lack of knowledge about fighter planes. But let me give my opinion freely.
Single seater JF-17 has less internal fuel carrying capacity, so it has to carry 2 additional drop tanks for its max ferry range, Whereas JF-17B carries more fuel than single seater because of its larger dorsal spine. With the removal of the second seat and addition of another fuel tank will mitigate the need of additional fuel tanks.
. The hard points previously devoted for Drop tanks are now free to carry heavier load near to the center of main frame. It solves the problem of disturbance of the fighter equilibrium in case of firing one on side heavy missile and the scarcity of hard points for weapons.
The mirage can carry only one Ra'ad missile, but with this modification Thunder can carry 2 such missiles at side on hard points to greater range comparatively.
Dorsal spine in B has no fuel but wirings and electronics that needed to be moved due to the second seat. Also doesn't have any additional fuel over the single seat version. Plenty of pics of B model showings what I described on the forum here
 

denel

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Jul 12, 2013
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I will tell you one thing and that is that the weapon system that is the PAF is using on the Mirage is solely dedicated to Mirage type air craft and I personally have not seen those Mirage employed weapons on any other PAF type.

The only proper way to replace the mirage is to take a look into those aircraft that have the ability to deploy those weapons effectively and by effective I mean all the physical and link parameters must be met.

Mirage in the PAF is used as a strike/attack aircraft (originally it was a high-speed interceptor) The options that you have given hence the Mig-35 and J-10 both cannot be a proper replacement for the Mirage.

Both types are medium weight multirole fighter aircraft one can say they can fit the role of the F-16.

Right now the replacement for PAF Mirage would be another Mirage of equal or advance type. Lookin into the future and focusing on all the parameters of the role that the Mirages plays would realistically give the PAF 2 options and those are the (one and only savior of the PAF JH-7 ;) and the other option is to Play with Jf-17B …. what I suspect that the PAF will opt for the JF-17b as their deep strike, stand off attack aircraft.





JF-17B
Correct; that would mean several changes either to the bird itself e.g. raise the stature or reduce the profile of the SOW. Further it is very possible to move H4s into JF-17Bs; we had it across on Buccaneers, Mirage 3 and F1s. No reason why it cannot be moved forward as the architecture is pretty flexible.
 

syed_yusuf

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Mar 20, 2006
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I am not an aeronautical engineer. So pardon me in advance for my lack of knowledge about fighter planes. But let me give my opinion freely.
Single seater JF-17 has less internal fuel carrying capacity, so it has to carry 2 additional drop tanks for its max ferry range, Whereas JF-17B carries more fuel than single seater because of its larger dorsal spine. With the removal of the second seat and addition of another fuel tank will mitigate the need of additional fuel tanks.
. The hard points previously devoted for Drop tanks are now free to carry heavier load near to the center of main frame. It solves the problem of disturbance of the fighter equilibrium in case of firing one on side heavy missile and the scarcity of hard points for weapons.
The mirage can carry only one Ra'ad missile, but with this modification Thunder can carry 2 such missiles at side on hard points to greater range comparatively.
Keeping the same air frame 2nd seat could be removed with additional fuel. Hence enhancing range with other minor mods jft blk4 strike thunder could be rolled out for PN and paf mirage replacement
 
Jan 3, 2020
846
0
959
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
Correct; that would mean several changes either to the bird itself e.g. raise the stature or reduce the profile of the SOW. Further it is very possible to move H4s into JF-17Bs; we had it across on Buccaneers, Mirage 3 and F1s. No reason why it cannot be moved forward as the architecture is pretty flexible.
Yes you are correct, I am confident that H-4 on Jf-17b will prove not a tedious task, If my memory serves me right the Jf-17 and mirage3/5 are very similar in takeoff weights (you would know more). Jf-17B is more of a striker for the PAF than a trainer.

Now the focal point for PAF mirages are SOW (solvable) and HATF Cruise missile HE/NE and that needs a proper structural change in both the arm and the air craft.
 

Hodor

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Yes you are correct, I am confident that H-4 on Jf-17b will prove not a tedious task, If my memory serves me right the Jf-17 and mirage3/5 are very similar in takeoff weights (you would know more). Jf-17B is more of a striker for the PAF than a trainer.

Now the focal point for PAF mirages are SOW (solvable) and HATF Cruise missile HE/NE and that needs a proper structural change in both the arm and the air craft.
Agreed,even Mirage barely manages to carry H4 as its very close to the ground, currently its impossible to manage H4 on JF17,both will have to go through/going through upgraded versions to solve this problem
 

ziaulislam

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Agreed,even Mirage barely manages to carry H4 as its very close to the ground, currently its impossible to manage H4 on JF17,both will have to go through/going through upgraded versions to solve this problem
H4 is old weapon
Time to dump it and move to advance weapons

Cant be stuck in the past
Look at raptor 3
 

Marker

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H4 is old weapon
Time to dump it and move to advance weapons

Cant be stuck in the past
Look at raptor 3
H4 was inducted in 2003. How come it became obsolete in 17 years.

PAF successfully used H4 SOW during operation swift retort in Feb 2019 and achieved desirable outcomes.
 
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GriffinsRule

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H4 was inducted in 2003. How come it became obsolete in 7 years.

PAF successfully used H4 SOW during operation swift retort in Feb 2019 and achieved desirable outcomes.
17 years? It will soldier on until the Mirages finally retire. Should not stop us in making compact versions of the same type of weapon for the Thunder
 

ziaulislam

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H4 was inducted in 2003. How come it became obsolete in 17 years.

PAF successfully used H4 SOW during operation swift retort in Feb 2019 and achieved desirable outcomes.
Because it was based upon raptor that was built for buccaneers in 1980s.
It was absolute 10 years ago.

Need small diameter bombs ..

Atleast get the raptor evolution ..the raptor 3 which was built 15 years ago
 

CT-9914 "Snoop"

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Keeping the same air frame 2nd seat could be removed with additional fuel. Hence enhancing range with other minor mods jft blk4 strike thunder could be rolled out for PN and paf mirage replacement
PN doesn't operate Mirages, that's a wikipedia propagated myth.
 

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