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Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

Should Pakistan upgrade its Mirages to South African Cheetah standard if not Beyond?

  • Yes

    Votes: 139 61.0%
  • No

    Votes: 89 39.0%

  • Total voters
    228

araz

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Jun 14, 2006
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I even feel that as Pakistan economy improves we might look into making Grippen NG in Pakistan or may be buying French next generation fighter in small numbers like 50 or so.
Gripen has capabilities comparative to JFT. It has already been denied to us so unlikely we will ask again. Secondly we dont need a second fighter with comparative characteristics to JFT. Personally I dont see an intermediate buy for PAF unless 5th generation platform gets delayed by 2030-35.

30 Mirage Vs from Egypt will help us for more of such strikes in near future...
I think they might be for spares more so than actual assett build up but then I could be wrong. Let us wait and see.
A
 

ziaulislam

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 22, 2010
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If I could add... The PAF doesn't even need to go as far as the Cheetah in terms of changing the airframe. It can retain the design as-is, but work on an actual SLEP program to zero-hour the airframe. It can look at Denel's old Atlas books and see how to zero-hour the ATAR engine as well. With SLEP and total engine overhauls in place, the PAF can then look at a serious radar and avionics upgrade (e.g., Leonardo GaN-based Grifo-E AESA radar).
Or add the rd93 too its available anyway ..might seriously improve the range..
If PAF intend to keep mirages beyond 2027-30 this might be a serious option
 

TheTallGuy

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Apr 10, 2019
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Or add the rd93 too its available anyway ..might seriously improve the range..
If PAF intend to keep mirages beyond 2027-30 this might be a serious option
What are we going to do about COG of Mirage 3 this idea worked with Mirage F1 but not with Mirage 3.
 

Sine Nomine

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Nov 19, 2014
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If I could add... The PAF doesn't even need to go as far as the Cheetah in terms of changing the airframe. It can retain the design as-is, but work on an actual SLEP program to zero-hour the airframe. It can look at Denel's old Atlas books and see how to zero-hour the ATAR engine as well. With SLEP and total engine overhauls in place, the PAF can then look at a serious radar and avionics upgrade (e.g., Leonardo GaN-based Grifo-E AESA radar).
Why not just go for new Airframe and rd33?

@denel if i am not wrong Tel Aviv has no issue,selling anything to anyone,until or unless uncle sam comes in.
 

ziaulislam

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Apr 22, 2010
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bottom line is by 2030 thunders will be available in numbers, and PAF will take a thunder any day even over mirage 5 as its mulitrole plateform within better range than mirage..
regarding ground clearence/raad issue its easier to simply develop a new strategic weapon
 

denel

PROFESSIONAL
Jul 12, 2013
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Why not just go for new Airframe and rd33?

@denel if i am not wrong Tel Aviv has no issue,selling anything to anyone,until or unless uncle sam comes in.
Airframes you dont need from IAI, they can be fabricated either at Chengdu or yourside too.

30 Mirage Vs from Egypt will help us for more of such strikes in near future...
More for parts; or possible re-worked to replace older mirages.
 

FuturePAF

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Dec 17, 2014
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If I could add... The PAF doesn't even need to go as far as the Cheetah in terms of changing the airframe. It can retain the design as-is, but work on an actual SLEP program to zero-hour the airframe. It can look at Denel's old Atlas books and see how to zero-hour the ATAR engine as well. With SLEP and total engine overhauls in place, the PAF can then look at a serious radar and avionics upgrade (e.g., Leonardo GaN-based Grifo-E AESA radar).
Thank you, Exactly, A modest upgrade after a decent overhaul will allow our fleet to soldier on for another 15 years. These platforms should be looked at as just that, platforms. Taking in data, properly processing it and showing it to the pilot, allowing the pilot to moving into position, and launching their smart munitions to achieve the mission.

With all the modern PGMs being made by China, maybe we should stick to a Chinese Radar option. Avionics, HMD/HMS, EW Suite could be Turkish or European, but whatever is needed to allow us to use Chinese munitions we should stick to. It gives us room to get ToT and make those munitions in Pakistan.
 

GriffinsRule

SENIOR MEMBER
Nov 18, 2015
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Question is, why did SAAF go with the Saab Gripen instead of fabricating new Mirage airframes from scratch themselves? @denel
 
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denel

PROFESSIONAL
Jul 12, 2013
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Question is, why did SAAF go with the Saab Gripen instead of fabricating new Mirage airframes from scratch themselves? @denel
The reasons were very simple - politicians who sold out to massive corruption scandals to pave way for Jvs with EU. Other aspect was we no longer had enemies at our gates e.g. Cubans/Soviets.
 

Quwa

Research Partner
May 16, 2006
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@denel

https://www.africandefence.net/project-carver-emerges-from-the-shadows/

Fascinating article. I’m gutted you guys never went all the way with this.

Would love it if this level of knowledge and technology was shared with Pakistan for Project Azm and also for bringing up the Mirage Fleet to Cheetah C standards.
I wish South Africa factored into the PAF's Sabre II efforts. By combining their experience from the Carver with Klimov's RD-93, the PAF's ops experience, and China's industrial weight, we could have had a grittier and more affordable equivalent to the Gripen (i.e., composites, digital FBW, HMD/S, etc right off the bat).
 

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