• Sunday, January 20, 2019

Brief Explanation about Japanese Fighter Jet project

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by Red Mahura, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. Red Mahura

    Red Mahura FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Ratings:
    +2 / 70 / -0
    Country:
    Korea, Republic Of
    Location:
    Germany
    Sooo..... I found out that many of you guys have huge misunderstanding about ATD-X ShinShin and F-3 and now I will explain about ATD-X as much as I can. I hope @Nihonjin1051 san can give me some help about this.

    First off, many of you call ATD-X ShinShin a 'prototype' of F-3. ATD-X means Advanced Technology Demonstrator eXperimental 心神 (means 'soul' and ShinShin's english name has been known as 'ghost') Japanese government didn't even choose whether they will make their F-3 fighter jet or not. Just that it has high possibility ; more than 90 %. I will get into it deeper later on.

    1. - FS-X

    To the main subject, I should start from Japanese FS-X project of 1988. In 1988, Japan's first indigenous fighter jet F-1 support fighter's lifetime was almost at the end which JASDF and Japanese government needed their next fighter jet to replace their F-1. JASDF wanted fighter jet of FA-18 Hornet class which there was and there was a lot of argument over many different answers like buying jets from US but obviously Japanese Gov choose to make their own indigenous fighter jet. There were several suggestions like using F-15 or F/A-18 but as the investment needed grew massively, those suggestions were discarded (this is the point where the suggestion to buy F-14s came out). Finally, there were only two choice left, the full individual development or F-16 based joint development and as what you guys know, due to economical and political causes, Japan choose F-16 based joint development. [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    These are the graphics and models of what 'fully Japanese developed' FS-X would have looked like + this is where those who supported 'purely Japanese' FS-X sigh for. Though now, after 10 years from development of F-2 Viper Zero, it is a known fact, that with Japanese technology of the period it would have not been able for them to make 'pure Japanese' fighter jet until the scheduled time.
    Anyways, the share over development of F-2 was 60% Japanese and 40% American. Also after several difficulties, Japan was able to acquire opportunities to get the source code and full 100% technology of
    F110 - GE - 129 engine, which IHI made was able to license produce core / essential parts of the engine.
    The difference of F-2 from F-16 was 25% bigger size with better aerodynamic performance and better avionics / electronics (made by Japan) compared to newest F-16.
    [​IMG]
    It was one of the only aero plane of that period which choose one-piece figuration for it's main wing and also the first fighter jet to choose AESA (the J/APG-1) for its radar. Those two and some more technologies were reexported into USA, which there were even some expressions like Japan - America Technological turn around. Also F-2 was / is some of the only fighter jet that can carry 4 ASMs. So this jet looks like quite of a state of the art product but the only thing makes this jet worse than ever, the price of $ 130 million per unit. This was a serious problem that JASDF only bought 92 jets which were less than existing plan of 130 of 'em. Anyways, this wasn't a whole waste because this crap looking jet is the current base of Japan's ATD-X

    2.1 - Japan's trial to buy F-22 and the ATD-X

    The purpose of the program is to investigate how much technologies Japan have and how much they can make a fighter jet out of it. It is a pure technology demonstrator with size of trainer that cannot even be armed with weapons. Japanese TRDI have chosen Mitsubishi Heavy as main contractor and there is $ 39.4 billion invested for it. Why is it such a small amount of money used? I will explain it later.

    From 1992, Japan was already planning and making concept of F-3, thier next indigenous fighter jet. However in 2005, Japan tried buying F-22 Raptors from USA and while that, they revealed the mock-up of ATD-X, bringing it to France for RCS measurement to use as bargaining chip. But even though, US never accepted the export of F-22, the R&D started in earnest from 2009. The schedule for the project was to R&D each parts from 2009 to 14 and while, make the demonstrator through out the period. After first flight in 2014, this year, it will get various tests until 2016 and the program will going to be ended. When this works well (and yes it is going very well), Japanese Gov is planning to make and fly the i3 fighter (or the F-3) until 2027 or maybe till after 2030. When F-3 is made, it will replace every F-2 and F-15J 改 (kai, which means PIP).
    ==>>Damn, i can't upload the link to japanese official PDF file about the brief explanation. maybe next time then,.
    There will be total 3 unit to be produced (1 for ground durability test and 2 for real flight test). They will also test the stealth detection capability of various radars they own by ATD-X, which the RCS of ATD-X is known as 'Smaller than the small bird (eg: sparrow)'.[​IMG]
    ( nihonjin1051 san, would you be so kind to translate this? thank you)

    It is after 7 years since in 2006 when th 1/5 scale R/C model was revealed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    we can clearly see the number 51-0001.

    2.2 - Japan's advanced technological infra and i3 Fighter Jet

    F-3 fighter jet is Japanese fighter jet with several concepts currently, which will take it's maiden flight in 2027 if the development takes place, referred to Japanese Government. It is going to be a fighter jet something between 5.5th generation and 6th generation

    Anyways, now comes the important part which many of you guys misunderstand.
    First of all, Japan was investing whole bunch of money only for aerospace technology R&D, it was more than several hundread billion yens per year, which you guys should know that to keep the technology, there should be such a huge amount of money to keep it, which Japan was researching about whole bunch of technologies including stealth, to keep the infra or otherwise could be explained 'to give work' (usually the engineers and designers, i.e. everyone who involves in R&D. also some other stuff too, like buildings for tests). But even though pouring such amount of money every year, the 'work' that can be given to keep infra is almost saturated, the current situation that now they should push ahead a new huge project to keep the infra and that is the ATD-X and F-3. Understood? This can be easily explained referring to why people loose job. Why people loose jobs? Because there is no work for them to do and it is the same for Japanese technological infra, the researchers.
    Second of all, F-3 will be a different plane from ATD-X. Currently, developing their new fighter jet, F-3 is not a definitely settled matter, but just a super high possibility over 90 %. Currently their is about 2~3 concepts.

    one is 23 DMU ( number 23 means it is designed in Heisei 23rd year or 2011. DMU means Digital Mock-Up) and other is 24 DMU. It is known that 25 DMU also exists, though it is not publicly revealed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    23DMU is more based on F-22's design while 24 DMU is based on YF-23's. It will be the Large sized, High class Fighter Jet like F-22, not Medium or Small sized Low class aircraft like F-35 (I'm talking about High-Low mix concept of US and World's airforce, not saying F-35 is a bad fighter jet.) We can easily know this by the fact that they are replacing F-15J Kai and F-2 with this jet.


    Anyways, this is the end of first session, its alread AM 12 : 50 here in Korea. (it's my vacation now, I'm back in Korea) I should go for sleep. I will come back soon, after my sleep. Wait for the next session guys!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  2. Faqir M. Abdullah

    Faqir M. Abdullah FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Ratings:
    +1 / 22 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    That is a nice explanation and article mate , Good Work 8-)
     
  3. Aepsilons

    Aepsilons PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

    Messages:
    24,978
    Joined:
    May 29, 2014
    Ratings:
    +118 / 35,741 / -0
    Country:
    Japan
    Location:
    United States
    Thank you @Red Mahura ! Great thread. :tup:

    I'll be adding some info later on. Good job.
     
  4. Red Mahura

    Red Mahura FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Ratings:
    +2 / 70 / -0
    Country:
    Korea, Republic Of
    Location:
    Germany
    Here comes the session 2!

    3.1 - how will the F-3 Stealth fighter look like?

    Current ATD-X ShinShin's specs are :

    14.174 m long
    9.099 m wide
    4.514 m high
    8t take off weigh
    2960 km ferry range
    Supersonic capability

    two IHI XF5-1 Turbofan engine
    each engine's thrust is 5t (11000 ibs)

    Now as I said, this aircraft is just a technology demonstration model to find out the Japanese ability of making Stealth fighter jet. F-3 will be (of course) larger than the ShinShin, with much powerful engine and super cruise capability. As far as I know, currently Japan is giving more weight on 24 DMU than 23 DMU, though we don't know how the 25 DMU looks like so wee should wait for it. Japanese Gov is expecting the development expense to be around 500 ~ 800 billion YEN and to be ended aroun 2027 ~ 2030.

    The main idea that applies to F-3 is 'Counter Stealth-Stealth Fighter' or can be described as 'stealth fighter that kills stealth fighter', which with their advanced electronics and material engineering technology, they are planning the F-3 to be much hard to detect and hunt down the enemy stealth jets.

    There are mainly 7 concepts on F-3 :

    (1) Dispersed Hunter-Killer (actually, I don't understand this Japanese word which I just translated into dispersed hunter killer)
    (2) Capability to overcome numerical inferiority

    Traditional fighter jets performed the detection of enemy aircraft by it's own radar and shot them down by their own, but in near future, this will be different. As one allied aircraft targets the enemy(ies), other Aircrafts would be able to also attack that targeted aircraft. Though talking about joint operation with UCAV, for F-3 it is not being considered in the moment.

    [ Joint Fire Control Technology ]

    [​IMG]

    To gain tactical advantage against enemy stealth fighters or more amount of aircrafts compared to allies, Japan is currently researching about high speed data link of information including radar data link from 2012 which will continue until 2017.

    upload_2014-7-25_13-28-54.png
    ↑ The numbers in schedule means years in current era name Heisei. Heisei 24th means 2012.

    (3) Light-speed weapon which hits the target right after the attack

    Directed Energy Weapon that includes high-energy laser weapon or high-energy microwave weapon. The R&D of Directed energy weapon is go along separately from the development of F-3 that in is unclear will the F-3 adopt the directed energy weapon or not.

    (4) FBL

    Currently, the importance electronic warfare is increasing and FBL is stronger than FBW in terms of jamming resistance (eg: electromagnetic wave). Also for better control of an aircraft including stabilization while high agile maneuvers, Fly-by-Light with faster reaction, i.e will be the better choice. The technology needed for Fly-by-Light already exist in Japan, which the Japanese maritime patrol aircraft Kawasaki P-1 already adopter FBL for electromagnetic Jamming resistance.

    (5) Stealth that is superior to enemy using advanced material engineering technology of Japan

    Using / applying private technology like Silicon Carbide fiber, Magnetic Shielding using Plasma TV (PDP) technology, Meta Material, etc

    [Aerodynamics Technology for Internal Weapon Arming}

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Research to internally arm various weapons including missile by explaining complex shock wave, air flow that occurs while opening the weapon bay, especially about what happens when un-docking and launching the missile. It started from 2010 and will continue until 2017.

    [Research on Stealth Intake Duct]
    [​IMG]
    To research about the flow of the air current while bending the duct of the engine for stealth capability.

    (6) Next Gen high-power radar

    Using the Japanese Semiconductor technology including GaN T/R

    [Advanced Integrated Sensor]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Researched from 2002 to 2010, the multi-role RF sensor has capability to perform as radar, ESM and ECM. Now from 2010, the research or integrating IRST for Finding and Tracking the aircraft with low RCS. It also functions as an communication device.

    continues →
     
  5. Red Mahura

    Red Mahura FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Ratings:
    +2 / 70 / -0
    Country:
    Korea, Republic Of
    Location:
    Germany
    continues →

    [Smart Skin Sensor]

    [​IMG]

    Smart skin radar is a film type radar that can be arrayed on the surface of the fuselage which can cover the area / angle that the nosecone radar cannot. This will make F-3 to be able to observe 360 degrees like EO-DAS and even more, it can track multiple targets and has capability to be used as high resolution SAR.

    [​IMG]
    ↑ various kinds of test that has been held

    The research has started from 1998 and the test of the radar was already done, including the test that has been held on Kawasaki C-1. R&D has ended in 2010.

    [Future Avionics System]

    [​IMG]

    A research about man-machine interface for reduction of work that pilot should process by controlling the behavior of multiple sensors including RF or infrared and by carrying out integrated information processing.

    (7) [Next-Generation "High-Power Slim-Engine"]

    [​IMG]

    In the development of an fighter jet, the most hardest and costly part is where they develop the engine for it. Japan eventually got 100% full scale technology transfer of F110-GE-129 from USA while FS-X and developed their XF5-1 from 1995. The 4 initial products has been sent to TRDI from IHI and from 2003, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries tested Thrust vectoring nozzle until 2008 and they eventually passed the test of JASDF. The engine's thrust was 3 times smaller than one of F119's though the thrust-to-weight ration is the same ; 1:8.
    However, the new Next-Generation "High-Power Slim-Engine"'s development has been started since 2010 and it will end around 2027 ~ 2028.

    The new high-power slim engine aims to generate 15 tons (33000 Ibs) of thrust with the turbine inlet temperature of 1,800 ℃. Compared to XF5-1 which has 5 tons thrust (11000 Ibs) and turbine inlet temperature of 1600℃, the new engine has smaller size but greater output.

    ↓ 'Relationship of research of next-generation engine's major components and future fighter project'
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Project: Future Fighter Systems Research (2) main components of the next generation engine research
    Budget after correction in 2012 : ¥ 128.1 million

    Project Overview:
    * Research Objectives
    To obtain the knowledge base of main components of next generation high thrust and thrust to weight ratio for response on high performanced fighters of the future .

    * Research Overview
    To develop and confirm the material and thermodynamics technology basis to implement lighter weight and performance of the compressor, combustor and high pressure turbine. These are the core of components of the next generation engine .

    [​IMG]

    ↑Designed and Manufactured Components of The Program

    [​IMG]
    ↑ The Road Map

    Issue .1 : Are the purposes of this research what the next generation aircraft engines will require?
    (Description) ○ The high speed performance of the next generation engine is necessary for the fighter jet that will perform counter-stealth fighter interception missions, which the weight reduction and high thrust-to-weight ratio is required.

    (1) So far, the demonstrational engine's (XF5-1) average inlet temperature of the combustor was 1600 ℃. This research aims to increase average inlet temperature into 1800 ℃ and turn the increment of thermal energy into thrust to achieve high output .
    (2) Will reduce the volume of the engine by reducing the axis length of the compressor by 10% .

    [​IMG]
    ↑ The Effects of high thrust and weight reduction of the engine.

    Issue .2 : How big is the possibility of achievement of this research's purpose, high thrust-to-weight ratio ?
    (Description) ○ The results obtained from conceptual design showed that the research goal of higher average inlet temperature of high-pressure turbine and average outlet temperature of combustor along with reduction of the weight is able to be satisfied.

    (1) It is expected that average inlet temperature will rise from 1600℃ which is of XF5-1 into 1800 ℃, which the injection properties (characteristics) in combustor will be improved and will lead to minimization of 'partial high temperature phenomenon' that gives an adversely effects to combustor exit .
    (2) The next generation SC alloy and heat-resistant composite are going to be used in high-pressure turbine.
    (3) The compressor's fan design has taken account of complex shape of three-dimensional TVC nozzle, which the pressure loss has been reduced and even when the axis length is shortened, they are still able to gain the necessary compression performance that they will reduce the size of axis length of compressor 10% smaller compared to one of XF5-1.

    ○ The outcome of the research should satisfy major evaluation items, which current research goal that aims average inlet temperature of high-temperature combustor and high-temperature / pressure turbine to be 1800℃ and light weight compressor's axis length reduced by 10% will be obtained.

    Issue .3 : Those the outcome of research have versatility? Is there any plan to apply the results of the research to an equipment, i.e so that it can be used effectively ?
    (Description) ○ This research is specialized for fighter jet engines which the civilian demands aren't expected , but there is several plans of applying the outcome of the research in part field.
    ○ The outcome of this research will be applied to the core components of the fighter jet engine that is being developed since 2013 .
    ○ After researching components of next gen engine and fighter jet engine for the application of the outcomes of this research in various fields and establish technology of key components, Japan can try to apply it on next gen engine and existing engines' PIP. Also they can establish connection / link between fighter jet engine and civilian aircraft engine.

    [​IMG]
    ↑ relationship between this research and future projects

    [​IMG]
    ↑ Reflection of the outcome of this research

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    → continues
     
  6. Red Mahura

    Red Mahura FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Ratings:
    +2 / 70 / -0
    Country:
    Korea, Republic Of
    Location:
    Germany
    → continues

    So according to the road map, the development of the engine ends in 2017... This is quite fast I think, that a jet engine which is even smaller than the XF5-1 which can make 3 times greater thrust is going to be developed within 7 years...

    [Lightweight Airframe / Fuselage Structure Research]
    [​IMG]
    High-Precision structure analysis technology, integrated paz - or less (???) structure, heat sealed technology to decrease the weight of the aircraft. Starts from this year 2014 until 2018.

    【23 DMU, 24DMU】

    [​IMG]\
    Digital Mock-Ups made to examine the future fighter aircraft, stealth capability and weapon arrangement within internal weapon bay. 23 DMU with F-22 like shape has been designed in Heisei 23rd (2011) and 24 DMU with YF-23 like shape has been designed on Heisei 24th (2012). The 25 DMU is known to be exist but it isn't publicized. The future fighter aircraft (F-3) will designed based on these DMUs.

    GOOODDD this was a so hard work. once I deleted the post by mistake and had to do it again from the first part... however, I hope a lot of u guys to read this and know about ATD-X ShinShin and F-3. Next time I will come back with brief information of KFX / IFX, an interesting trans-generation fighter jet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  7. Qweset

    Qweset FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Ratings:
    +0 / 10 / -0
    Country:
    Canada
    Location:
    Canada
    Two good articles about atd-x:
    1. Search google for: ATD-X Emerges Amid Japanese Fighter Choices aviationweek
    2. Search for: Enter the Asian Stealth Fighters wallstreetjournal
    Sorry I'm new here so I can't post links.
     
  8. Red Mahura

    Red Mahura FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Ratings:
    +2 / 70 / -0
    Country:
    Korea, Republic Of
    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks for the infos!
     
  9. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    11,606
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Ratings:
    +9 / 13,633 / -2
    Country:
    Bangladesh
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    @Red Mahura :

    Excellent information and well done for the find!

    It looks like the Japanese are going all out to match the Chinese in producing a 5th generation fighter.
     
  10. Red Mahura

    Red Mahura FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Ratings:
    +2 / 70 / -0
    Country:
    Korea, Republic Of
    Location:
    Germany
    J-20 is not a match for F-3..... actually I doubt the stealth capability of J-20, the 'Mighty Dragon' though it doesn't seems that mighty. There are a lot of people including the experts who also doubts the stealth capability of J-20, which there are many evidences. Just looking at those canards and the shape of the nozzle already makes a doubt for it's stealth capability.
    Besides, F-3 will be the most strongest fighter jet of the period. It is expected to be around (as I said) 5.5th generation or even 6th, which it is designed as 'stealth to hunt down stealth'.

    @Nihonjin1051

    I don't doubt the performance of future i3 fighter jet, though worried about that this jet can be too expensive like as F-22 or F-2 that Japan will not going to be able to afford it. Even though the concept of 'stealth to kill stealth' isn't new, still the technology it posses is very high tech including the smart skin sensor that can bring the over cost. Also I believe that Japan will be able to finish the R&D of 'high-power slim-engine', it would be a lie that I don't have even bit of a skeptical view about it. How is your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014