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Breaking: Iran detains U.S navy soldiers entering Iranian territorial waters

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-SINAN-

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You guys shot down a plane, we just arrested and released.

No one was critisizing Turkey for caring about its borders. It was the shooting down act that seemed unnecessary provocative.

Let me tell you this detaining incident was not necessary, you could have escort their vessel out of your territorial waters. But as you are not on friendly terms with US, it's understandable.

-Let's not forget that, Russians violated our border twice before the shooting incident our leaders warned Russia that further violations will be replied with force. I mean they violated our airspace 3 times in 2 months after we shot their plane no further violations occurred.
 

anon45

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USA shot down an Iranian passenger flight. Is that professional? No other major army has ever had such an "accident". Whether it was an accident or not, it definitely shows that the army isn't professional, correct? That want CIA, it was Pentagon, correct?

Also, the reaction after it wasn't professional. Is it a sign of professional NOT to apologize for such incident? Is it professional to give a medal to the person in responsible for that " accident"?

Even professional militaries have accidents, but that is beside the point.
What is your definition of professional? The standard definition of professional is

professional
play
adjective pro·fes·sion·al \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Simple Definition of professional
Popularity: Top 10% of words
  • : relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill

  • : done or given by a person who works in a particular profession

  • : paid to participate in a sport or activity

So how do you define a professional military?

Here is exposition on what makes a military professional according to / from the USMC

What Is a Military Professional? | Marine Corps Association

To issue an official apology would ultimately be up to the commander in Chief and/or the department of state. Its a real stretch to go from the president and/or diplomats not issuing an apology to the military being unprofessional.

Also were those medals awarded for that incident? If not then I would say its unrelated.
 

Azeri440

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USA shot down an Iranian passenger flight. Is that professional? No other major army has ever had such an "accident". Whether it was an accident or not, it definitely shows that the army isn't professional, correct? That want CIA, it was Pentagon, correct?

Also, the reaction after it wasn't professional. Is it a sign of professional NOT to apologize for such incident? Is it professional to give a medal to the person in responsible for that " accident"?


List of airliner shootdown incidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

LeGenD

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Iranians are playing with fire. They tend to forget about Operation Praying Mantis.

While territorial violation is not justifiable, one can address the matter more amicably. You don't mess with big powers and give them the impetus to build a case against you in the long run.
 

Oldman1

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Iranians are playing with fire. They tend to forget about Operation Praying Mantis.

While territorial violation is not justifiable, one can address the matter more amicably. You don't mess with big powers and give them the impetus to build a case against you in the long run.

Considering this was resolved by both sides quickly, it was professional.:-)

Because you would have hardliners in both countries clamoring for war!
 

LeGenD

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Great stuff Iran! Someone at least can stand up to Americans. This is not like Saudi Arabia or any of the Middle East Arabs who cant think to offend Americans.
Yes, Iraq just did that and look where it got it.

One should be realistic, not suicidal. Iran was lucky that Iraq occupied US attention for a long time. Now that Iraqi chapter is nearing closure, Iranians should seek to improve their ties with US. Because nobody will help Iran during its hour of need.
 

Madali

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Let me tell you this detaining incident was not necessary, you could have escort their vessel out of your territorial waters. But as you are not on friendly terms with US, it's understandable.

-Let's not forget that, Russians violated our border twice before the shooting incident our leaders warned Russia that further violations will be replied with force. I mean they violated our airspace 3 times in 2 months after we shot their plane no further violations occurred.

I am one of the biggest supporters of Turkey among the Iranians here. I'm not jumping at Turkey just for the sake of being anti Turkey.

However, I admit, if no futhur violations occurred, maybe it was the best course of action so as not to drag the problem further and cause a bigger problem down the line.

Even professional militaries have accidents, but that is beside the point.
What is your definition of professional? The standard definition of professional is



So how do you define a professional military?

Here is exposition on what makes a military professional according to / from the USMC

What Is a Military Professional? | Marine Corps Association

To issue an official apology would ultimately be up to the commander in Chief and/or the department of state. Its a real stretch to go from the president and/or diplomats not issuing an apology to the military being unprofessional.

Also were those medals awarded for that incident? If not then I would say its unrelated.

If you go by that definition than all the armies are professionals because "relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill"
 

LeGenD

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Please explain to me how Iran fighting in Syria and Iraq is dependent of the US?

Air forces can't do shit in Iraq, bombing scattered terrorists is useless unless you're strafing with ground attack craft like AC-130s, Apaches or warthogs. Neither of which the US is doing.
Most of the useful airstrikes aree being done by Russia in Syria because they're striking vital support infrastructure like oil convoys, power stations, command centres etc. The Americans are reluctant to attack these because they don't want the SAA and Iran to makeup ground that can be leverage in Geneva negotiations.

If the Americans left Iraq right now it wouldn't make much of a difference, most of ISIS' support structure and backbone is in Syria.
US is hitting ISIS on a broader scale actually. While Americans have motives, they get the job done where needed: Inside the US Air War Against ISIS

However, air strikes are expensive and useless against ideological threats. You need boots on the ground to defeat ISIS.

Take the example of Persian Gulf War (1991):-

Aerial campaign against Iraqi military forces = 40 days = Iraqi military forces softened but still in Kuwait.
Operation Desert Storm = 100 hours = Iraqi military forces utterly decimated and ousted from Kuwait.

Clear enough?

However, this conflict is more complex then it seems:

The battlefields of Iraq and Syria are a complicated spider’s web of alliances—sometimes the forces fighting ISIS are also fighting each other. “The friendlies were shooting at us 13 years ago,” an A-10 pilot said.

The Kurdish Peshmerga is a key ally against ISIS. But Turkey, which recently opened up its bases to the U.S., has been bombing some Kurdish forces in northern Iraq, which Turkey considers terrorist groups. And in Syria, the Iranian Quds Force supports the regime of Bashar al-Assad against both U.S.-backed rebels and ISIS, while in Iraq the Quds Force supports the Iraqi Security Forces, which are also supported by U.S. air power, training, and equipment.

“The composition of who the friendly forces are, that’s a question mark,” an A-10 pilot, an Air Force major, said.

The presence of Russian warplanes and ground units in Syria is a new headache for the U.S. and coalition partners. On Sept. 18, the Department of Defense announced that U.S. and Russian forces were discussing ways to deconflict forces in Syria. Days later, however, Secretary of Defense Ash Carter said the Pentagon would not move forward on talks with Russia about deconflicting warplanes over Syria until the Kremlin proposed a political solution in Syria beyond propping up the regime of Bashar al-Assad.


In addition, last time, US military forces were in Iraq, price of oil hit 100 USD per barrel and the war became so expensive for US that it had to end its occupation of Iraq. This development created a huge vacuum in Iraq and various militias are filling the gaps.

If the world wants to defeat ISIS and other hostile elements in Syria and Iraq then it should band together and create favorable conditions for re-occupation of Iraq and Syria for long-term basis to fix their issues.
 
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Serpentine

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Wow, just wow. :)

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From what i saw, Turkish media was highly supportive of Iran in this issue.

No one criticized Turkey for protecting its borders, the problem was escalating things by shooting down a non hostile plane which was in your airspace only 10 seconds. If we shot at U.S boats or killed them you could say that.

There is a huge difference between killing the perpetrators or shooting them and arresting them for hours, not even considering the fact that Iran and U.S are enemies, Turkey and Russia were not, before that incident.


Comparing these 2 situation is not the wisest thing to do I suppose.
 
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Cyrus the Great

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Thats typical thug behavior: if u behave nicely to thug he thinks u are weak and humiliates u. That what Ayatulas did with Carter and same they do with Obama. With Reagan they would not dare even approach the US ship.
You'ld better learn some history. Reagan sent his secretary of security with a gift to Iran and Iran refused to meet him, The guy committed suicide later.
 

gambit

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If you go by that definition than all the armies are professionals because "relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill"
It is not merely technical skills.

There are many factors on what make a truly professional military.

First...It is allegiance to country, not to a political party and/or a figure. Many militaries in the world already failed this condition.

And since we are talking about the ME militaries, we can pretty much end the discussion here.
 

-SINAN-

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No one criticized Turkey for protecting its borders, the problem was escalating things by shooting down a non hostile plane which was in your airspace only 10 seconds.

There is a huge difference between killing the petrators or shooting them and arresting them for hours, not even considering the fact that Iran and U.S are enemies, Turkey and Russia were not, before that incident.


Do comparing these 2 situation is not the wisest thing to do I suppose.

Mate, let me share my opinion on that matter.

You know Syria downed our jet 2012 for briefly violating Syrian airspace. You know, you normally warn the tresspasser, send your jets to intercept and escort the violator out of your airspace. So, when these guys downed our Jet, we changed our RoE regarding Syrian border only. After that we shot 1 Syrian Helicopter and Jet for trespassing into our territory.

Things got complicated when Russians joined the war...You know some Russian Jets removed their country flag from their Jets.

So, you have a Fighter jet closing into your airspace, your rules of engagement is to bring down Syrian jets that trespasses into your airspace... you can't identify the incoming jets nationality....It can be Syrian or Russian...what to do ?

To remind you, months ago a Russian reconnaissance aircraft breached our space in the Black Sea cost....we didn't shoot it down, just send two F-16s to intercept and escorted it out of our airspace.

And i don't understand you did we escalated things or Russians escalated by violating our airspace for 3 times despite protests and warnings ?

What would you suggest, to let Russians violate our airspace once a week, and fill complaint about it, every time ?

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I don't understand my American friends on this thread, don't violate their territorial waters, airspace and there will be no problems. You can't complain about the consequences when you are the violator.

First...It is allegiance to country, not to a political party and/or a figure.
So, Wehrmacht was not an professional army ?
 

Cyrus the Great

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That is the differences between you and Iran.

Yes, Iraq just did that and look where it got it.

One should be realistic, not suicidal. Iran was lucky that Iraq occupied US attention for a long time. Now that Iraqi chapter is nearing closure, Iranians should seek to improve their ties with US. Because nobody will help Iran during its hour of need.

Some of the countries around Iran followed your advise then got messy even without US invasion. Look around and stop lecturing others.
 
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