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Breaking : India deploys first S-400 air defence system in Punjab sector

jk007

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The difference however is that some self sabotaging decisions(and systems) by India itself work in Pakistan’s favor a lot - A LOT. Everything from procurement priorities and procedures handicap all that money India has in its kitty.

I know you won't believe - but India is a status-quo nation. As long as she is able to maintain with Status-quo with pak & china, we are happy. So, all that money is not meant for defence spending. We have lots of needs in infrastructure etc.

Case in point is spending millions in creating a telepresence conferencing system from HCL for Indian airbases but not allocating those funds in priority for secured airborne communications.

Only bumpkins or contrived kickbacks can explain that.

a) From which year did PAF has SDRs or similar systems to ensure secure communication? Does PAF have SDRs?
b) I am also very interested in why IAF did not invest in systems like SDR before balakot. I want to understand their reasoning behind this gap, but nothing found in forums [contrary to most PDFers - I do not believe IAF are buffoons or monkies sitting in cockpits or other inferior race who don't have good enough <fill-in-whatever>].
c) Is there no way IAF could have jammed / blinded the communication between PAF aircraft and PAF command centers?
 

kursed

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I wont say dead on Arrival since India makes a lot of efforts from places like TaCDE to other establishments to cater its doctrines down but in in terms of exposure to system Pakistan has been working hard for the past ten years.
It cannot “defeat” the brahmos but since the brahmos has been confined to a strategic role(the SSM) version any use from India is automatically assumed to be a rung up the ladder towards nuclear weapons.

The naval front is a different matter where the Brahmos on IN ships is still a deadly combo with just a few tactics available against it. Even the USN doesn’t have anything other than RAM and SM-2 launches to really negate the Russian Oniks/Bazalt combos.

The difference however is that some self sabotaging decisions(and systems) by India itself work in Pakistan’s favor a lot - A LOT. Everything from procurement priorities and procedures handicap all that money India has in its kitty.

Case in point is spending millions in creating a telepresence conferencing system from HCL for Indian airbases but not allocating those funds in priority for secured airborne communications.

Only bumpkins or contrived kickbacks can explain that.
Before the arrival of CM-401s (at least until Feb 27, 2019) I believe going up the nuclear ladder was in fact the plan. But would it not change since we can now respond conventionally, if they opt to use Brahmos against land-based targets?
 

waz

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RKgl1in.gif


The HQ-9B says hello......
 

Zapper

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I thought they were to counter Chinese Airforce Presence in Ladakh and not Pakistan? Sure we get it you have a flashy new gadget , i really hope it doesn't bring down one of your own this time (I hope it does :D)
They'll be split between the eastern and western theatres. I believe two of them are to be deployed with western (Rajasthan or Punjab) while the other potentially in Kashmir and the other 3 will be allocated to the eastern theatre
 

El Sidd

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They'll be split between the eastern and western theatres. I believe two of them are to be deployed with western (Rajasthan or Punjab) while the other potentially in Kashmir and the other 3 will be allocated to the eastern theatre

Some say they did live practice with Mi17 attack helicopters in Southern theater.
 

Aesterix

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But but but.....I was told by Indians that Pakistan is so insignificant and weak for the mighty India that they have deployed boys with غلیل on Pakistani border as Air defence?
S-400 was only for a worthy opponent China?
 

The Eagle

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What happened to the US CAATSA..???

It was worked before apparently to have waiver from US for the job in return promised by Modi. No specifics about job but the promise is made.

If wrong, India will face CAATSA which in my opinion not happening. Secondly, I personally think that Russia should treat it's missile system being compromised big time which seems to be the part of promise as a leverage to use against Pakistan and China. Win Win.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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The active duty systems deployed on China's AD/ABM grid are HQ-9 & HQ-19 series, in large numbers. Like other non-standard & off-grid systems the two and only two S400 battalions are used by FTTC (Flight Test and Training Centre) say 172 brigade or OPFOR say 175 brigade, these "blue teams" do not practice PLA doctrine but exactly the opposite i.e. doctrines as close to adversary's as possible.

Must suck for them when they have to mimic a certain South Asian country.
 

SQ8

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I know you won't believe - but India is a status-quo nation. As long as she is able to maintain with Status-quo with pak & china, we are happy. So, all that money is not meant for defence spending. We have lots of needs in infrastructure etc.



a) From which year did PAF has SDRs or similar systems to ensure secure communication? Does PAF have SDRs?
b) I am also very interested in why IAF did not invest in systems like SDR before balakot. I want to understand their reasoning behind this gap, but nothing found in forums [contrary to most PDFers - I do not believe IAF are buffoons or monkies sitting in cockpits or other inferior race who don't have good enough <fill-in-whatever>].
c) Is there no way IAF could have jammed / blinded the communication between PAF aircraft and PAF command centers?
I don’t think that first part is really relevant to what I am inferring. Inefficiency and bumbling of funds is the same - whether someone in India does it on 200rs or $20 million.

a)PAF has had SDRs since the early 2000s.

b) misplaced priorities and poor doctrine - some bufoon ACdre (it’s usually the retired yes men that seem to write self praising articles in India compared to true war fighters that are respected by their counterparts worldwide) was writing an article for ToI ten years ago boasting how commands will be delivered to IAF pilots via text and there will no need for radios and back then I laughed on thinking what text will a IAF pilot read while straining under Gs or multi-tasking a complex mission?

c) IAF did not have a dedicated asset available to it - part of it I believe (based upon some hearsay and intel that a MKI variant is being or is ready)
 

Shah_Deu

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Well, the crown jewel of S-400 is the 400km range 40N6E missile. Without 40N6E, the S-400 is at best comparable to the HQ-9P (most probably the HQ-9C) with publicly stated interception range of 260km (ofcourse 100+ km as per PA). The 40N6E has only been up until recently arming the Russian military after its successful trials in 2018. So it itself could be debated if India has received the 40N6E yet, and if not, india has barely just gone back to a status quo with our HQ-9Ps already operational.

Secondly, in the worst case, even if India has received the 40N6E, the engagement in our airspace (at any ranges let alone the farthest) would be a major escalation on India's part and statically positioned and assuming the system has been deployed within 140 kms of border (which otherwise would eat into its maximum range itself) , the PAF SOWs, PA Fatah-1 MLRS (140km precision targetting) or ALCMs/LACMs could take the engaging batteries out. So in a sense, not doubting about the lethality of the S-400, it would be an escalation which would be responded to and thus doesn't change the status quo currently in order.

And lastly, we must also not forget that with the 91N6E radar of S-400, although India could peep 600km deep into our airspace, it essentially doesn't change anything for India since it was already using the Israeli Swordfish radar with similar or even higher detection ranges.

I personally think that PA AND PAF should also give serious thoughts to adding land-based radar electronic warfare systems like Koral (effective range 150 kms) or similar systems from China and Turkey, given them being end users of the system, must be better positioned to create signal countermeasures, which would add a further layer to countering the S-400.

With all being said, with the introduction of S-400 in the mix, the strategic planners have their hand full in taking care of the system which needs some intricate attention. Shaheen exercises would be getting even more purposeful in the future for sure.
 
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Type59

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Turkey and China have same missile systems. You be foolish to believe, India's version is completely different to theirs electronically. China will test their stealth fighters against s400 radar, since Pakistan is widely expected to get j-31 ...

Not end of the world.
 

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