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Bottomline | Old Story It’s time India moves beyond the so-called ‘surgical strikes’

El Sidd

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these incidents are important for both the armies, keep them busy and give them the sense of worthiness .. on the bigger picture of Kashmir, the status quo remains the same for last 70 years and will be so for another few decades if not century.. good for all the parties ..

And forums like PDF also remains relevant for all of us to keep discussing these issues in a loop.. win win for all
Status Quo changed Aug 05, 2019 in India's favor.
 

PradoTLC

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but it's true, what I said.

cross border strikes are a reality, have been that way since partition.

also made clear that it goes both ways..

what is your point, that they never happen or that they have never happened ?

What is this ? Some farmer who crossed over and handed back at Attari ?

cant help it if your soldiers look like farmers and pilots like truck drivers...
 

Baby Leone

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So it was pakistani tactic to let india take over Siachin. Extremely smart. India is blessed that pakistan has such genius military planners
no our plan was to make few million more indians to go hungry which we had a great success in. :lol:
 

vi-va

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Indian think big, talk big. Never changed.
Hindus can't rule themselves, they need a foreign ruler.
I believe Hindu will be ruled by Muslim once again, let's see.
 

vi-va

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@Mods ....Isn't this the spewing of religious hatred?
Sorry if you feel offended.
I am just describing what I feel. The Muslim rule India for more than 1000 years, there must be good reason behind it.

I met so many Indians in US, they really can talk, talk big, big dreams, but never materialized, which I hate the most.

I read so many India affairs on news channels, the same, talk big, something like Tejas is better than JF-17, or Arjun is better than VT-4, and so on.

Or India Ready for 'Two-and-a-half Front War', Says Army Chief Bipin Rawat.

I never see any nation other than India so delusional, must something wrong in culture.

India was strong when Muslim ruler rules, but weak when Hindu struggled to manage.

So delusional, speechless.

1610711548476.png

 
Aug 19, 2017
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Sorry if you feel offended.
I am just describing what I feel. The Muslim rule India for more than 1000 years, there must be good reason behind it.

I met so many Indians in US, they really can talk, talk big, big dreams, but never materialized, which I hate the most.

I read so many India affairs on news channels, the same, talk big, something like Tejas is better than JF-17, or Arjun is better than VT-4, and so on.

Or India Ready for 'Two-and-a-half Front War', Says Army Chief Bipin Rawat.

I never see any nation other than India so delusional, but must something wrong in culture.

India was strong when Muslim ruler rules, but weak when Hindu struggled to manage.

So delusional, speechless.

View attachment 707088

That's your opinion...but I think what you said in your original post constitutes hate speech according to the reformed rules of the server How can I see the mod list so that I may report that post?
 

vi-va

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That's your opinion...but I think what you said in your original post constitutes hate speech according to the reformed rules of the server How can I see the mod list so that I may report that post?
On the other hand,
I remember India prepared ammunition for 2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks now.

India was caught unprepared, unprofessional, don't blame opportunist, blame India own incompetency, and BIG BIG mouth.
 
Aug 19, 2017
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On the other hand,
I remember India prepared ammunition for 2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks now.

India was caught unprepared, unprofessional, don't blame opportunist, blame India own incompetency, and BIG BIG mouth.

as I said i am not really concerned about your subsequent replies...but only the original one which constitutes hate speech according to the norms of this site....the site went a huge reform last year when a bunch of derogatory words were thrown out
 

Joe Shearer

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It was kind of the member who pointed to this post; the post was worth reading, considering the general quality of discussion that prevails.

Indian Army’s director general military operations, Lt Gen. Ranbir Singh had told a hurriedly called press conference a few hours ago that the army, based on ‘accurate intelligence received yesterday’ had done ‘surgical strikes at terrorists launch pads’ on the night of September 28-29. With unspecified numbers of terrorists killed, and no casualties to own troops, Pakistan had been informed of the operations and told that the Indian mission was over. Ranbir Singh, sharing platform with external affairs spokesman, signalled that the operation was being projected to be big and was done with the full knowledge of the Prime Minister’s office.
The first feature that is noticeable is unfortunate, and that has an unpleasant side-effect.

The feature is that the Indian armed forces do not have that slick, prepared, smooth finish that they compete against, in terms of news management. The DGMO should not have to worry about briefing the press. The DGMO is a work-horse; all his work goes into keeping operations up and running. It is not appropriate for him to hang on to a mike and tell oiks like the cartoons in Republic TV what is going on; it is not appropriate for him to spoon-feed them the correct phrase to apply to the actions being described.

The unpleasant side-effect is that all subsequent mention of this subject, in this forum, is likely to be twisted and spun unmercifully. As it happens, there are positive aspects of the situation as we see it after a moderate passage of time, and presenting an entirely gloomy picture would cause distortion.
 

Joe Shearer

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What Ranbir Singh said did not make sense. Surgical strikes are done against legitimate military targets (in this case Pakistan Army), with minimal collateral damage, and demonstrative impact at strategic (policymaking) or operational (warfighting) levels. Being a ‘shock and awe’ operation, which demonstrates the doers’ political will and military readiness, it leaves the enemy stunned by the opposite sides’ audacity. The enemy gets to know immediately when such spectacular military strike is done, and is left wondering: What next? Successful surgical strikes are done best by use of air power to hit where it hurts.
Well, yes and no.

Traditionally, if surgical strikes may be considered to possess a tradition (a look at the 'Jameson Raid' may help; the stupidity writ large on Jameson shows us one reason, among many, why the Raid was such a cock-up), they have been swift, unstoppable, severely limited in extent and immediate. Traditionally, also, this task had been assigned to air forces. However, if we look at the specifications of what such a riposte should be, there is really no reason why a land-, or a sea-based operation should not qualify for this appellation. 'Done best', agreed, but by no means restricted to this. One is tempted to point out that among the ancestors of these 'strikes' were the shelling of shore installations, vulnerable coastlines, shipping, generally peaceful, anchored shipping, and gatherings; before 'surgical strikes', we had 'gunboat diplomacy', recently re-discovered by higher-than-mountain, sweeter-than-honey aspirants to great power status.

What the General said made no sense, because of what it was. Not an ordinary communication, but an election gambit, intended to curry votes. It was a very vulgar thing, not in its intent, but in its presentation.
Thus, rounding up my article I cautioned India to be ready for an escalation. The day after, it was my turn to be shocked. My article was not published, and Pakistan said there was no surgical strikes by Indian Army; fire assaults, performed routinely by both sides, had been carried out.
Apparently, there was more; the fog of war has successfully obscured all detail of a test-worthy type, and left only the Sunny Deol kind of dick-measurement to enlighten those who wondered about the facts (few people did).

It has to be pointed out, however, given the long history of prevarication and downright dishonesty displayed by one side, it is difficult to believe the bland offering of fire assaults, of the sort performed by both sides.

Yeah, right.
 

Joe Shearer

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Foreign secretary S. Jaishankar’s statement made to the Parliamentary committee on external affairs on 18 October 2016, contradicting the defence minister, was underplayed by the nationalistic media. Reacting to the term surgical strikes, he said that the army ‘had carried out target specific, limited calibre, counter terrorist operations (across the Line of Control)’, adding that they were done in the past too, except this time the government had made them public. Emboldened by this, the Congress party went to town saying raids on Pakistani posts (which are closer to real surgical strikes) were done many times in the past under previous governments.
It is possible that Jaishankar has redeeming virtues; that cannot be ruled out or a rigid stance taken. Contradicting a charlatan whose dishonesty is written into every seam and wrinkle of a countenance redolent of moral decrepitude is not much of an achievement; it did have the redeeming feature, leading to the hope expressed at the outset of some possibility of redemption, of honesty about the continuing nature of such Peter Pan exploits by both sides.
 

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