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Bitter truth about Pak floods

SoulSpokesman

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@Wood Saar

lets consider the reality that Pakistani domestic politics will not allow for any aid from India.

As a neighbour we should offer our support and aid- it is upto Pakistan to decide whether to accept or not.

@Irfan Baloch

Irfan sb,

the west is dumping chemical industrial waste in Pakistani waters

I doubt if that is true- Pakistan is not that much of a pushover as you imply.

the ill thought permission of ship breaking which brings its own host of unwanted residue which has made the waters devoid of fish and land barren.

India has a far bigger shipbreaking industry in Alang, Gujarat. The biggest in the world. But Gujarat has the largest marine fishery industry in India. BD too has a large industry near Cox Bazar but it too is a large fish producer. In modern times shipbreaking is done with reasonable care. I doubt if shipbreaking explains travails of Pak fishing industry. Must be some other factor, I would suspect oil leakages from the Middle East given that Pak is right on the mouth of the Straits of Hormuz , or illegal trawling by the taller than mountain friend.

Regards
 

Wood

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As a neighbour we should offer our support and aid- it is upto Pakistan to decide whether to accept or not.
How can you be sure that India has not reached out to Pakistan via back channels and has been politely declined? Some would think that forcing Pakistan to refuse a public offer for help from India would be a cheap political trick. India was good to not do that.
 

SoulSpokesman

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@Wood Saar

How can you be sure that India has not reached out to Pakistan via back channels and has been politely declined?

I can only comment on what I know; and not on what I dont know.

Regards
 

Joe Shearer

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Before we decide to fall on a sword, lets consider the reality that Pakistani domestic politics will not allow for any aid from India. It takes two to tango. :coffee:
Let us not fall on swords; with the current Manu-mania that has gripped our politicians in power, it is more likely to be a tea-spoon.

Is it not a pretty pathetic stance to take, that we will not even offer to help, since our hatred of those whom we wish to help has already convinced us that we will be rejected?

Can't we make even a half-hearted offer?

Only because we work hard to make it so. Sadly.
Painful and bitter, because true.

As a neighbour we should offer our support and aid- it is upto Pakistan to decide whether to accept or not.
👍
 

Wood

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Let us not fall on swords; with the current Manu-mania that has gripped our politicians in power, it is more likely to be a tea-spoon.

Is it not a pretty pathetic stance to take, that we will not even offer to help, since our hatred of those whom we wish to help has already convinced us that we will be rejected?
What Manu-mania?! Does not ring a bell.

Also, how do you know that India has not had back channel talks with Pakistan about flood relief? How can you be sure that India has not made a public offer for help because that will create a political problem for the administration in power? You have not comprehended my view in the matter and have jumped to the presumptuous conclusion that I think India should not help with flood relief. :what:
 

khansaheeb

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Doesn't matter, instead of crying let's use it to our advantage

We need to invest in dams and canal system

Use dams and domestic coal for electricity, during drought years release that stored water

When life gives you lemons , make lemonade

We need to figure out issues in Sindh, they suffered the most in both 2010 and now
They need to start making reservoirs in the Indus mountain ranges by diverting excess water during flood water flows.
 

epebble

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What Manu-mania?! Does not ring a bell.

Also, how do you know that India has not had back channel talks with Pakistan about flood relief? How can you be sure that India has not made a public offer for help because that will create a political problem for the administration in power? You have not comprehended my view in the matter and have jumped to the presumptuous conclusion that I think India should not help with flood relief. :what:

What Manu-mania?
-- Monomania
 

SoulSpokesman

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@khansaheeb

They need to start making reservoirs in the Indus mountain ranges by diverting excess water during flood water flows.

While I am not necessarily opposed to that do remember a few things:

1. The current flood wasnt driven by precipitation in the mountains but in Balochistan and in the lower Punjab/Sindh plains. Such events will recur with disturbing regularity.
2. Building reservoirs in mountains will be extremely time consuming and costly affairs.

As @Olympus81 and I have proposed, a better option will be to start constructing what Olympus sb calls monkey cheek ponds in the plains themselves.

Regards
 

khansaheeb

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@khansaheeb

They need to start making reservoirs in the Indus mountain ranges by diverting excess water during flood water flows.

While I am not necessarily opposed to that do remember a few things:

1. The current flood wasnt driven by precipitation in the mountains but in Balochistan and in the lower Punjab/Sindh plains. Such events will recur with disturbing regularity.
2. Building reservoirs in mountains will be extremely time consuming and costly affairs.

As @Olympus81 and I have proposed, a better option will be to start constructing what Olympus sb calls monkey cheek ponds in the plains themselves.

Regards
most of the flooding occurred around and due to the river Indus flooding. But excessive rains did contribute.
 

DabbuSardar

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Without digging the details, Indian plains have a bigger amount of water flowing down the mountains, and similar monsoon rains.
The difference is every major troublesome river has been dammed and further utilized for generating power.

There should be no hiding from the fact that it is a policy failure from Pakistan rulers and public. Actions(including inactions), have consequences. That's the issue that this flood responsibility should focus on.
 

Signalian

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However, I wish we could have been more forthcoming in our approach to a neighbour's day of calamity.
Prevention is better than cure.

Where will this aid go even if it comes ? This aid isn't getting jobs, cattle, houses, infrastructure etc. This is just for survival. There will be severe inflation of food prices. Roads will need to re-constructed. Telephone cables (if not OF), power cables, irrigation systems etc will need to be revisited. The disease and its spread will need to be curtailed. The debris will need to be cleared up.

How will the lives of affected people get back on track ? which bank will give them loans ? will Govt give them reimbursements in cash ? There is hardly a concept of insurance in rural Pakistan.
 

Meengla

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@VCheng

SAH sb,

How is that anybody else's fault?

Of course it is not! But even with all the shortcomings, Pak and other developing nations would have had some calamities all right but not to the extent that they are suffering now because of the large scale fossil fuel burning. The developed nations are morally obliged to pay for the delta damage caused by their own karnameys. Although I doubt they will actually do so.

Regards

Sensible post. There is not much a poor country like Pakistan could have done to tackle the floods like this which are heavily caused by the global climate change. I, like most in the richer countries, consume like there is no tomorrow. I will admit that I don't even mind taking a 20+ miles detour to get to a place just to avoid traffic or taking a scenic route. Now imagine how many people like me consume resources like there is no tomorrow? My car is almost all the time the smallest in parking lots (a Toyota Yaris with 33-35 mpg in city driving!!). There are gas guzzlers all over America!! We in rich countries consume too much. And we are responsible for the climate change crises like the current one in Pakistan.
 

epebble

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Without digging the details, Indian plains have a bigger amount of water flowing down the mountains, and similar monsoon rains.
The difference is every major troublesome river has been dammed and further utilized for generating power.

There should be no hiding from the fact that it is a policy failure from Pakistan rulers and public. Actions(including inactions), have consequences. That's the issue that this flood responsibility should focus on.
Pakistan has a fairly complex irrigation system for Indus and its tributaries. What can the dams and canals do if, say, 3 times normal rain comes down at once. Once the dams are full, it is as good as there are no dams. Also, some of the older and weaker dams may burst causing larger catastrophes. The only solution is not to build in flood plains. But in a crowded country, people will hesitate to leave empty space for flood plain and encroach it with tragic consequences. For example, in a few years, all the flood plains will be teeming with construction as though nothing happened.
 

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