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Beg, borrow, repeat: Pakistan’s IMF addiction continues even as its finance minister leaves

Andhadhun

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1- There is plenty of evidence available to suggest that your incumbent PM is a mass murderer of a Indian minority , which was very conveniently ignored by Indian judiciary.
Feel free to provide that evidence.

2- Put your reading glasses on and go through the link you posted? Where does it mention "Samjhota express" and its culprits? Masood Azhar involved in Samjhota express terrorist act? you having a laugh?

3- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Samjhauta_Express_bombings
UNSC section committee in June 2009 says, ‘al Qaeda provided Qasmani with operatives to support the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjhauta Express bombing in Panipat, India’, which Qasmani himself approves.

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/...ctions_list/summaries/individual/arif-qasmani

Here is more,



You own National Investigation Agency (NIA) charged the hindu terrorists for this savage act including Swami Aseemanand and now they are all scott free thanks for the kangroo courts running under the thumb of Hindu terrorist regime in new delhi.
It was a witch hunt by the congress which was without any substance or evidence. Inevitably the courts had to set them free as there was ZERO evidence. Everybody knew the blast was done by pakistan. Including the US and UN.

4- What is this logic of "USED TO BE" ? First are you 100% sure that HH is no more a Pakistani citizen, or you are just working on pure assumption? Secondly, if a crime was committed when he was Pakistani citizens, does it absolve him of the crime since now he has become citizen of another country? Thirdly, when he appeared before the court , he submitted before the judicial system of Pakistan , hence accepting its jurisdiction over him. Case is still ongoing and he must present himself before the court of law and absolve himself if he is not guilty. Running away despite being summoned is a open and shut case of his crimes.
I just looked it up and HH is still a pakistani citizen.

So if your case is strong (opoen and shut case in your words) issue a Interpol red corner alert. Why has pakistan not done that yet ?

5- You have to question the "power" and "jurisdiction" of American state when ISI chiefs loved ones are living in yankiland yet his institution is butchering the American lives in Afghansitan (as per American narrative about ISI) .
This is a red herring and a straw man argument. How is it relevant except to divert the issue ?
 

Lincoln

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He was your ambassador to the United States from 2008-11.

He is also well read and educated enough to become the director for South and Central Asia at the Hudson Institute in Washington D.C

As far as qualifications goes, he is right up there.
Political sciences is a joke of a major.

And he has qualifications, but not qualifications for Economics, or in Industrial Field, or in Business.
So on what grounds he even makes these claims is beyond.

In fact, these aren't claims at all. They are directed hate towards Army. He is a fool, nothing more, who is paid well to write biased columns like thes which only, and only, blame, produce stupid-*** analogies, put in a statistic or two with fancy words not knowing what they mean, and pretend to be experts on topic without talking remotely anything relevant to the topic (really just bashing an object here), and without any qualifications.

Only the Indian press listens to him. No one in Pakistan.
 

Andhadhun

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Political sciences is a joke of a major.

And he has qualifications, but not qualifications for Economics, or in Industrial Field, or in Business.
So on what grounds he even makes these claims is beyond.

In fact, these aren't claims at all. They are directed hate towards Army. He is a fool, nothing more, who is paid well to write biased columns like thes which only, and only, blame, produce stupid-*** analogies, put in a statistic or two with fancy words not knowing what they mean, and pretend to be experts on topic without talking remotely anything relevant to the topic (really just bashing an object here), and without any qualifications.

Only the Indian press listens to him. No one in Pakistan.
I am not talking about his educational qualification. That is only useful when you are just out of college.

I was talking about his global exposure and his rage of knowledge that made him the ambassador of Pakistan in the US.

He is the director at Hudson institute in the US which is a top American policy institute and think tank in Washington D C. You think someone unqualified will get that job ?
 

Taimoor Khan

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Feel free to provide that evidence.

Feel free to use google on your own leisure. Plenty out there.



UNSC section committee in June 2009 says, ‘al Qaeda provided Qasmani with operatives to support the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjhauta Express bombing in Panipat, India’, which Qasmani himself approves.

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/...ctions_list/summaries/individual/arif-qasmani

Here is more,
It was a witch hunt by the congress which was without any substance or evidence. Inevitably the courts had to set them free as there was ZERO evidence. Everybody knew the blast was done by pakistan. Including the US and UN.

Neither the US nor the UN are the court of law. Whoever this chap Arif Qasmani is, he is never been a suspect or case made against him in relevant court of law. Interestingly, the US was dealing with this chap to reach out with Talibans in Afghansitan. Its the American which laters used it leverages in UN to push the same guy name. More of a case deal going went wrong. Its a classic ploy of India and its allies to divert the attention from the real culprits , all of them happened to be Hindu terrorists belonging to RSS, the mother organization of BJP and Modi. Nobody is surprised that during the current dispensation in India when the power is firmly in the hands of hindu terrorist regime, all these hindu terrorists involved in Samjhota express blast are release.

What congress got to with NIA? Its your own state institution. Infact it was the Congress government which from day one start honking non sense that ISI was involved in Samjhota blast. To suggest that they will put blame on Hindu terrorist of Modi's RSS is absolute non sense. its only after the real culprits were unearthed and Swami Aseemanand confession that he was involved , all the non sense about Pakistan was involved died down.

A narco-analysis test was conducted on SIMI's leaders Safdar Nagori, Kamruddin Nagori and Amil Parvez who had stated about Abdul Razzaq's involvement in the blasts and him informing Safdar about it.[17] Times Now had broadcast a video of the test in 2017.[18] The later statements of Swami Aseemanand of Sunil Joshi telling him of involvement of his men in the blast had caused confusion for the investigators.[19] One of the investigating officers stated in 2016 that they had investigated the Islamists including Safdar but didn't find them involved.[20] Razzaq who had been in prison since 2005 had been interrogated and had brought Qasmani to the notice of Intelligence Bureau as a key Lashkar financier. He was questioned regarding the case, but no evidence of his involvement were found. Some officers had also questioned the reliability of narco-analysis.[21]


I just looked it up and HH is still a pakistani citizen.

So if your case is strong (opoen and shut case in your words) issue a Interpol red corner alert. Why has pakistan not done that yet ?

That's good. Next time, don't waste time in dwelling on assumptions.

Pakistan did contact Interpol but they refused. Ofcourse under American pressure, HH is a American mole. But the point here is, Why would we pursue his case? The stigmata of being an absconder is on him , and he should appear infront of court of law, as he pledged, and get his name cleared. Remember what I said to you, his credibility becomes ZERO, since he is an outlaw. As long as he remain an outlaw, it serve our purpose. Considering how lengthy and difficult the process is within Judicial system, and with a possibility that he may get relief from court, the status quo serve Pakistan interest. He can honk all the garbage he wants, he will get middle finger shown for being who he is, an OUTLAW.


This is a red herring and a straw man argument. How is it relevant except to divert the issue ?
You went into tangent start honking non sense as to how American can exercise its power inside Pakistan. Just putting things in perspective for you.
 

Andhadhun

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Feel free to use google on your own leisure. Plenty out there.
LOL.... you call this Evidence ? :lol:

This is just a guy boasting and making wild claims. Its called Hear say. You will be laughed out of court if you consider this "evidence".


Neither the US nor the UN are the court of law. Whoever this chap Arif Qasmani is, he is never been a suspect or case made against him in relevant court of law. Interestingly, the US was dealing with this chap to reach out with Talibans in Afghansitan. Its the American which laters used it leverages in UN to push the same guy name. More of a case deal going went wrong. Its a classic ploy of India and its allies to divert the attention from the real culprits , all of them happened to be Hindu terrorists belonging to RSS, the mother organization of BJP and Modi. Nobody is surprised that during the current dispensation in India when the power is firmly in the hands of hindu terrorist regime, all these hindu terrorists involved in Samjhota express blast are release.
This is laughable. US has the most extensive anti Terror network in the world and they track almost all global terrorists and acts of terrorism and monitor it for threats against the US.

So when the US took the case of samjauta blast to the UN and provided evidence, the UN agreed and listed them as global terrorists and as perpetuators of this crime.

Your denial does not change reality.

There is plenty more evidence, but that will only derail this thread. If you open a new thread on that I will provide all details. Your denial not withstanding.

What congress got to with NIA? Its your own state institution. Infact it was the Congress government which from day one start honking non sense that ISI was involved in Samjhota blast. To suggest that they will put blame on Hindu terrorist of Modi's RSS is absolute non sense. its only after the real culprits were unearthed and Swami Aseemanand confession that he was involved , all the non sense about Pakistan was involved died down.
It was the congress who spun tales of "hindu terror" and asked pliant officers of the NIA to fabricate evidence and implicate people for this. Direct from the Home ministry. There is plenty of retired Officers who has come clean on this and exposed this dastardly attempt.

This is now public knowledge in India. Keep yourself updated. There is a sea of evidence about this.

A narco-analysis test was conducted on SIMI's leaders Safdar Nagori, Kamruddin Nagori and Amil Parvez who had stated about Abdul Razzaq's involvement in the blasts and him informing Safdar about it.[17] Times Now had broadcast a video of the test in 2017.[18] The later statements of Swami Aseemanand of Sunil Joshi telling him of involvement of his men in the blast had caused confusion for the investigators.[19] One of the investigating officers stated in 2016 that they had investigated the Islamists including Safdar but didn't find them involved.[20] Razzaq who had been in prison since 2005 had been interrogated and had brought Qasmani to the notice of Intelligence Bureau as a key Lashkar financier. He was questioned regarding the case, but no evidence of his involvement were found. Some officers had also questioned the reliability of narco-analysis.[21]
Statements of Swami Aseemananda was taken under duress and thrown out by the courts.

The NIA deliberately diluted the investigations to strengthen their political narrative and This too is now Public knowledge. Like I said, open a new thread and I will post all the evidence and facts there.


That's good. Next time, don't waste time in dwelling on assumptions.

Pakistan did contact Interpol but they refused. Ofcourse under American pressure, HH is a American mole. But the point here is, Why would we pursue his case? The stigmata of being an absconder is on him , and he should appear infront of court of law, as he pledged, and get his name cleared. Remember what I said to you, his credibility becomes ZERO, since he is an outlaw. As long as he remain an outlaw, it serve our purpose. Considering how lengthy and difficult the process is within Judicial system, and with a possibility that he may get relief from court, the status quo serve Pakistan interest. He can honk all the garbage he wants, he will get middle finger shown for being who he is, an OUTLAW.
LOL. This assertion destroys your entire claim :lol:

The ONLY way Interpol will refuse a red corner notice is if there is not sufficient evidence. To blame it on US interference is just plain lazy excuse.

The joke is on pakistan who has declare someone guilty but cannot even seem to provide enough evidence to get the interpole to agree on its red corner notice.

The man you claim is an Outlaw is now the Director of a very prestigious think tank and policy institute in the US. Right in Washington DC. He is a well known speaker and is widely respected in India too. His articles are regularly published in reputed media houses. Looks like its you who is getting the middle finger.


You went into tangent start honking non sense as to how American can exercise its power inside Pakistan. Just putting things in perspective for you.
It was in response to your assertion about US and Taliban and what not.
 
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Lincoln

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I am not talking about his educational qualification. That is only useful when you are just out of college.

I was talking about his global exposure and his rage of knowledge that made him the ambassador of Pakistan in the US.

He is the director at Hudson institute in the US which is a top American policy institute and think tank in Washington D C. You think someone unqualified will get that job ?
Hudson Institute is anything but a top "policy Institute." You speak as if you know what they even do. I dare you to summarize what they do in three points without running google. Just because he is part of some "institute" which is also filled with political science major people and people who have no say, give him any qualification or ground to speak on, then you would be surprised what else that comes out of this "institute" mouthpiece, and if its something you want to give credence to or not.
 

Andhadhun

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Hudson Institute is anything but a top "policy Institute." You speak as if you know what they even do. I dare you to summarize what they do in three points without running google. Just because he is part of some "institute" which is also filled with political science major people and people who have no say, give him any qualification or ground to speak on, then you would be surprised what else that comes out of this "institute" mouthpiece, and if its something you want to give credence to or not.
The fact that he is a director in an institute who's only job is to study the world and publish papers is proof enough that he knows what he is talking about.

Not only is it part of RAND corporation which is truly a leading policy think tank in the US, it also has Indian BJP MP Rajeev Chandrashekar as one of its Trustees.

Rajeev Chandrashekar is not only a Member of Parliament but is also member of the Standing Committee on Defence, Consultative Committee on Finance.

He is also a Media Mughal and self made billionaire. He owns Republic TV for starters.

So in my view, its a very relevant institute.
 

Lincoln

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The fact that he is a director in an institute who's only job is to study the world and publish papers is proof enough that he knows what he is talking about.

Not only is it part of RAND corporation which is truly a leading policy think tank in the US, it also has Indian BJP MP Rajeev Chandrashekar as one of its Trustees.

Rajeev Chandrashekar is not only a Member of Parliament but is also member of the Standing Committee on Defence, Consultative Committee on Finance.

He is also a Media Mughal and self made billionaire. He owns Republic TV for starters.

So in my view, its a very relevant institute.
BJP member a part of it speaks heights about this "policy institute of USA."

I found that they have no influence, and a think tank without influence is simply a "validated mouthpiece" for sale to intelligence agencies in information warfare.
 

Andhadhun

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BJP member a part of it speaks heights about this "policy institute of USA."

I found that they have no influence, and a think tank without influence is simply a "validated mouthpiece" for sale to intelligence agencies in information warfare.
Think tanks are global influences. That is their job.
 

nahtanbob

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lol i think your opinion would be totally different if anything like that really happened in India.
The reason why Zardari wanted to weaken the ISI was so his corruption could not be exposed and the best reason that comes into my mind is that he wanted make Pakistan his private property. He killed his own wife (most likely) and produced a will out of thin air that made him the head of PPP, then sympathy votes made him the president. Hes not a leader but a criminal who has killed hundreds of people and forcefully snatched over 40 Sugar Mills from people. You probably don't follow Pakistani media, recently our Supreme Court shifted his Fake Accounts Case (billions of rupees/dollars in fake accounts made in the names of dead people and some other hundreds of innocent people who never knew their accounts existed) to Islamabad from Karachi because investigation team's life was in danger and to prevent record from being burned. Zardari is a criminal, he is not a politician, so i hope you understand what were his real motives behind Memogate scandal.
It is not America's problem that pakistan civilians and military leadership do not get along
 

Respect4Respect01

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It is not America's problem that pakistan civilians and military leadership do not get along
nobody is saying its America's problem, what i was telling him was that criminals in elite class has hijacked Pakistan and that is why they hate the armed forces.
 

Respect4Respect01

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Its not ISI's job to expose corruption.

Its the job of the police, the press, the public and the Judiciary. There is no short cut to justice.

If he is a criminal, let the due process take care of it. If the due process is broken, FIX IT.

But to pretend to be the judge, jury and executioner should be unacceptable.


As Solzhenitsyn observed, the Soviet Gulags were full of party faithful who were convinced their release would be imminent if only the error of their incarceration could be brought to the attention of the authorities.
ISI doesn't expose their corruption but they keep eye on their illegal activities, and all intelligence agencies do that. There is no other reason why Zardari wanted to get rid of ISI.
Police lol, our police is full of party workers hired on political bases, that is the reason why Rangers had to clean up Karachi because police was also involved in criminal activities and is very incompetent. Our politicians weakened and destroyed every single institution to save their corruption, they wanted to make our military like police (useless).

Now our courts, they are same as our police incompetent and useless, a big chunk of judges are hired on political basis. Except our previous Chief Justice who tried to do something good for Pakistan but political mafia and elite class resisted him, he is the only reason why "Qanoon Ka Ladla" nawaz sharif is behind bars right now.

I think you are confused between politics and crime, i am trying to tell you that Zardari is not a politician but a criminal, he killed his own wife to become the president, how can you expect anything good from him for the nation? a person who doesn't care about his own family can surely harm his motherland too.

Watch this short clip to see how our courts work.

 

Sharky

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Ignore the OP, he is a blind Pakistan hating bhakt. He wants you guys to reign in your army, which will definitely let India bully you.
 

Andhadhun

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ISI doesn't expose their corruption but they keep eye on their illegal activities, and all intelligence agencies do that. There is no other reason why Zardari wanted to get rid of ISI.
Zardari does not want to get "rid" of the ISI, he wants to reign in the ISI. There is a world of difference between the two.

Does the ISI report to the PM ? or to your parliament ? If not then they have non business spying on politicians. The moment it does that, it becomes a parallel source of power.

Police lol, our police is full of party workers hired on political bases, that is the reason why Rangers had to clean up Karachi because police was also involved in criminal activities and is very incompetent. Our politicians weakened and destroyed every single institution to save their corruption, they wanted to make our military like police (useless).
For most parts your military is useless. It has failed to protect your interest for the last 70 years. Today all your 3 borders are hostile to you.

All it has done is encroach upon the executive and now increasingly on the judiciary and the press.

If your police are corrupt, then what makes you think that the army is not corrupt ? The idea cannot be to replace the police with the army. The correct idea is Police Reforms.

Now our courts, they are same as our police incompetent and useless, a big chunk of judges are hired on political basis. Except our previous Chief Justice who tried to do something good for Pakistan but political mafia and elite class resisted him, he is the only reason why "Qanoon Ka Ladla" nawaz sharif is behind bars right now.
Indian courts are pretty corrupt too, though slightly less than pakistan. That does not mean we get to discount them. Instead what you need is judicial reforms. NS may be corrupt, but he is behind bar under dubious illproven charges. Anyway that is debate for another day.

I think you are confused between politics and crime, i am trying to tell you that Zardari is not a politician but a criminal, he killed his own wife to become the president, how can you expect anything good from him for the nation? a person who doesn't care about his own family can surely harm his motherland too.

Watch this short clip to see how our courts work.

Shashi tharoor is an congress politician who killed his own wife. Yedurappa is a BJP politician who killed his own wife. Sonia gandhi made deals with the LTTE and DMK who were partners in having her husband killed.

Politicians are not saints. Politics is the art of the possible.

So give the politicians some credit and don't be too eager to judge them on school boy morality. Rather than bank on the good will of politicians, make systems and institutions stronger which can limit the damage a bad politician can do.

But your army has done exactly the opposite of that. Made the institutions weaker and itself stronger. A sure recipe for disaster.
 

Respect4Respect01

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Zardari does not want to get "rid" of the ISI, he wants to reign in the ISI. There is a world of difference between the two.

Does the ISI report to the PM ? or to your parliament ? If not then they have non business spying on politicians. The moment it does that, it becomes a parallel source of power.
He wanted to get rid of ISI and make some new intelligence agency which would serve him instead of the state, and Military reports to PM, so basically ISI which is part of the military is also under the govt.

For most parts your military is useless. It has failed to protect your interest for the last 70 years. Today all your 3 borders are hostile to you.

All it has done is encroach upon the executive and now increasingly on the judiciary and the press.

If your police are corrupt, then what makes you think that the army is not corrupt ? The idea cannot be to replace the police with the army. The correct idea is Police Reforms.
I don't know what propaganda Indian media shows you, but trust me we are more democratic than India, we are so democratic that our politicians use democracy to hide their corruption and it has come to a point where Pakistan's interests and national security is being neglected, and if someone points out their corruption then he labeled as undemocratic and stooge of Military, what does military has to do with their corruption...its just illogical argument. In a secular country like India politicians can openly threat minorities and get away with it but not in Pakistan, Imran Khan recently fired a provincial minister for hurting sentiments of Hindus...your media portrays Pakistan like its stuck in 19th century lol, but i challenge you to visit Pakistan sometimes and see for yourself that it is more modern than India.

You are Indian so i can understand why you have dislike for our army and i don't have problem with that, but your claims are false, first of all its not army's job to protect national interests, that is the job of elected govt and our honorable prime minister Nawaz Sharif did not appoint a Foreign Mister for 4 years...Pakistan was victim of terrorism but was falsely blamed of harboring terrorists and there was no foreign minister to fight our case.

Army's job is to defend the borders and they do that very well, our army is very small compared to India but still never failed to defend the motherland, you saw that after Balakot airstrikes. Our army always did more than their share, they were behind the nuclear program, they created JF 7 thunder and its the only institution that is properly functional because it was kept out of politics.

Our govts are useless, their only aim is to make money and then blame the military for their loss in the next elections lol...when there are floods they call the army, when there is elections then army has to help, during polio vaccination campaign its the army for the security, and everywhere else its the army who has to help because these corrupt politicians ruined all our institutions. Nobody is replacing army with police, but you have to realize that its the same politicians who are suppose to fix the police, and why would they do that if it goes against their personal interests?

Indian courts are pretty corrupt too, though slightly less than pakistan. That does not mean we get to discount them. Instead what you need is judicial reforms. NS may be corrupt, but he is behind bar under dubious illproven charges. Anyway that is debate for another day.
my friend you are being biased now, Nawaz shairf failed to produce a SINGLE piece of evidence to prove his innocence. You know last month investigation by NAB revealed that Nawaz Sharif's Nephew's wealth grew by 8500% in 10 years...even bill gates must be jealous of his success. The reason behind his success is that his father and uncle were in govt.

Shashi tharoor is an congress politician who killed his own wife. Yedurappa is a BJP politician who killed his own wife. Sonia gandhi made deals with the LTTE and DMK who were partners in having her husband killed.

Politicians are not saints. Politics is the art of the possible.

So give the politicians some credit and don't be too eager to judge them on school boy morality. Rather than bank on the good will of politicians, make systems and institutions stronger which can limit the damage a bad politician can do.

But your army has done exactly the opposite of that. Made the institutions weaker and itself stronger. A sure recipe for disaster.
Shashi tharoor and Yedurapp are they behind the bars?

My friend again, you are mixing politics and crime together. Again, who is responsible for making institutions stronger? the same politicians who made the institutions weaker so their corruption could not be exposed and nobody interferes in their criminal activities.

Lol this last point of your's is very illogical bro, what problem would army have if police was stronger? it would be in interests of the army because they would not have to worry about internal security. What problem would army have if The Federal Board of Revenue was properly functioning and collecting more tax...our full tax potential is double than we are currently collecting. Army surely would not mind if departments related to to natural disasters were functional , same with courts there are over 2 million pending cases, and for example departments related to agriculture are dysfunctional which is hurting our exports etc...so in the end bro its all in govts hands.

Now Imran Khan is getting along with military very well because he doesn't have any personal interests or any corruption or crimes to hide.
 

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