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BBC - When Pakistan planned to attack Bhabha Atomic Research Center with F-16s

K_Bin_W

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There is a declassified US document you got to find that, Israel was also hand in gloves with phall shaport from Indians.

There is also an interview of f16 pilot he was asked about return from the mission since f16s don't carry enough fuel, his answer was it was suppose to be a one way trip. Hope some one finds it.
 

ARMalik

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BBC is just trying to lift the Image of Pakistan Military, who reputation has gone down the Toilets to be honest. Even a kid on the street now knows how corrupt these people are and how they have destroyed this country. THIS FALL FROM GRACE IS UNPRECEDENTED IN MODERN HISTORY OF ASIA !!
 

TNT

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Or maybe our people specially Baloch and pashtun are utter madar**ood

Look at this boot polisher pig and look at his language. Now i can abuse punjabi and muhajirs as well but i am not a rat like u to generalize all. But it proves that our military is utter useless imbecils and touts like this pindi rat are all they have. The military and its touts in the end will abuse other ethnicities but never accept own incompetence and fault.
I am waiting for mods to deal with this rat and if not then ill answer him in a language that he andd his whole tabar understands @waz

BBC is just trying to lift the Image of Pakistan Military, who reputation has gone down the Toilets to be honest. Even a kid on the street now knows how corrupt these people are and how they have destroyed this country. THIS FALL FROM GRACE IS UNPRECEDENTED IN MODERN HISTORY OF ASIA !!
Exactly, the westerners see their puppets being exposed and they r trying to lift them. We all know these banana generals have no guts to even think of something like that.
 

El Sidd

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Propaganda article. Indian nuclear sites are more in danger from end of world and clash of civilisation theorists found dime a dozen within Indian security apparatus than Pakistani establishment.
 

bhola record

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Terrible location, there would be daily attacks on facility and staff by Baloch terrorists
actually, great location. That can lead to balochistan getting safer because it would mean more recon more intelligence presence more troop presence, strategic presence overhead flights, surveillance through helicopters. A ragtag group of 10 can not do shit if there are spd battalions, additional sf elements, HUMINT, SIGNINT. But, one problem the presence of us forces next door, extremely vulnerable at that context.
 

NA71

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Timing of the report, what purpose does it serve ? when what's in the report is well known from previous releases since late 70s & onward. Distract from what ? that should be the question we be asking.

This is part of on going campaign against Pakistan and its military. BBC and Foxnews are two Western news outlets engaged in info-warfare . where as in India is now running similar campaign even in their news commercial breaks.....:D...very funny people.
 

TsAr

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When selected, the site was well protected from low level strikes as approach required attacker to gain height as facility is surrounded by hills thus exposing themselves to AA and SAM. Mind you, this was all before CM and other type of SoWs.

Part of unable to defend is akin to asking for Gov't backing for procurement of F-16s, worked well didn't it ?
Good analysis, at the time this site was selected it was near to impossible to accurately bomb Kahuta due to hills and other counter measures taken.
 

SABRE

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BBC urdu jjust posts a nice article today @Windjammer you need to translate it in English

source of article is AM ANWAR SHAMEEM when he announced in 1985 that paksitan have plan to attack Bhabha Atomic Research Center if india attacked Kahuta.

pakistnai gov and military informed india if any misadventure on kahuta Pakistan will retaliate with attack on indian nuclear facilities .


As far as my knowledge is concerned the threat was first conveyed (privately) by then Chairman PAEC Munir Ahmad Khan to his Indian counterpart Raja Ramanna sometime in 1983 after the first batch of F-16s were delivered in January of that year. Khan invited Ramanna for a meal during while both were on a visit to Vienna for an IAEA meeting. Not only the F-16s had/have the capacity to reach Bhabha Atomic Research Center (BARC) but the IAF also feared that it would lose its slow-flying Jaguars to f-16s if it attacked Kahuta. India/IAF had been contemplating using Jaguar strike aircraft for an Osrika-style attack on Kahuta for some time. It is, however, highly likely that the counter-threat had been contrived by AM Shameem or someone within the PAF.

Bhabha center is nearby mumbai Island.... Pakistan F16 are the most capable fighters in South Asia but that time Pakistan didn't have air refuellers...... that time F16s were capable to reach over Bhabha but after mission were not capable to return to Pakistan due to short range...... there was huge risk in shaping this mission as target was not on the border it was deep inside and India had spanking new Fulcrums to defend in own backyard.....

'No return' was an acceptable risk. It was clear in the counter-threat conveyed to India. Fulcrums were inducted in 1985, AFAIK, whereas the F-16s were inducted in 1983, the same year the counter-threat was conveyed to India.
 
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SABRE

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So it was not stupid to make a sensitive nuclear facility so near to the border?
It was/is not a good location but much of the PAEC facilities and personnel were based near Islamabad. The KRL was technically a part of the PAEC and an offshoot of its ERL (Engineering Research Laboratories). ZA Bhutto gave complete operational control of the KRL to DR AQ Khan, leading many to believe it was a separate programme and Dr Khan also made sure that the perception stuck around. The enriched uranium needed to be handed over to the PAEC for the weapons programme. Had KRL been established further inland - away from the PAEC facilities - it would have caused many problems relating to security and transportation.
 

Windjammer

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When Pakistan considered F-16s as an alternative to nuclear missiles!​

  • Umar Farooq
  • Defense analyst
June 28, 2022
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
Retired Air Chief Marshal Muhammad Anwar Shamim of Pakistan had revealed in December 1985 that in 1984, Pakistani military planners had planned to attack the Bhabha Atomic Research Center at Trombay in India because the then Pakistanis The military ruler feared that India would attack Pakistan's Kahuta nuclear laboratory.
There were only a few people who had a real understanding of all aspects of this imaginary military scenario.
In his speech at the Institute of Strategic Studies, Islamabad (ISSI) on the morning of December 16, 1985, the retired Air Chief Marshal indicated that the newly acquired F-16s were "Pakistan's nuclear option in addition to the atomic bomb."
Pakistan was still many years away from acquiring nuclear status and the memories of the military defeat at the hands of India were still fresh in the minds of Pakistan's defense planners.
General Zia-ul-Haq's military government promoted Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim to the highest office in 1978 (which he held until 1985). Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim not only oversaw the entire process of incorporation of F-16s into the Pakistan Air Force but also presided over the formal incorporation of these aircraft into the Pakistan Air Force in 1983.
Until his retirement, he was a close adviser to General Zia-ul-Haq on military and security issues. Therefore, immediately after his retirement in December 1985, he gave this speech at the Institute of Strategic Studies.
Among the participants was Dr. Robert Versing, an American professor who later wrote a book entitled 'Pakistan's Security Under Zia'.
Dr. Versingh later elaborated on the whole scenario when Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim revealed this at the ceremony.
The event was held on December 16, 1985 at the Institute of Strategic Studies, Islamabad under the theme 'Role of F-16 in Defense of Pakistan'.
This speech of Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim (then the leading English daily in Islamabad) was published in The Muslim, but Air Marshal Anwar Shamim did not mention in his speech that in case of Indian attack on Kahuta, Trombay The Indian government was informed by the then military government about the retaliatory attack on the Atomic Center.
Robert Versing quoted Air Marshal Shamim's speech as saying, "Shamim focused only on the Indian Air Force, clarifying the process of assessing the threat posed by the acquisition of the F-16."
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
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He made it clear that Pakistan insisted on acquiring the F-16 as compared to other aircraft because its capability to attack India was overwhelming. "Kahuta was seen very close to the Indian border and its protection is practically impossible," he said.
"India's ability to target sensitive nuclear facilities and penetrate the Indian defense system enabled Pakistan to respond in this way. The Pakistan Air Force could now target the Indian Bhabha Atomic Research Center in Trombay, which would be a catastrophe for India, and they (India) knew this. "Apart from the F-16 nuclear bomb, Pakistan has a nuclear option," he said.
Pakistan did not have nuclear weapons at the time, but its nuclear establishment was working on a nuclear program.
It took 25 years for Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim to explain what happened in 1984 and 1985 when the Pakistan Air Force acquired F-16s.
On May 28, 2010, he delivered another speech at a local hotel in Islamabad. Pakistan had warned India in the early 1980s that if India attacked Kahuta's nuclear assets, it would retaliate against the India Bhabha Atomic Research Center in Trombay.
According to Air Marshal (retd) Shamim, he was invited by then President General Zia-ul-Haq in 1979 to discuss nuclear assets in Kahuta. In his book, Cutting Age PAF, Anwar Shamim revealed that "General Zia had credible information that India was planning to attack and destroy Kahuta."
In the book, he wrote that he told General Zia that "the defense of Kahuta is impossible because it is a three-minute flight from the Indian border." We have eight minutes to respond and by the time the PAF planes reach the target, the enemy will have completed its task and returned safely within its borders.
General Zia asked how the most important weapon of national defense could be defended and the answer was to get state-of-the-art aircraft and sophisticated weapons and if India adhered to its policy, Pakistan Air Force would deploy Indian nuclear weapons in Trombay. It will blow up the place. '
"We will do them more harm than good."
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
"I asked the President to acquire the multi-capable F-16 fighter jet with modern weapons that are best suited to the needs of the PAF," he said. In 1981, the US administration offered F-5s and later asked for help from F-5Js, but Pakistan refused to take any aircraft other than F-16s. The United States has finally recognized it.
In January 1983, Pakistan received the first batch of F-16s, on which it wrote a letter to the President regarding its responsibilities.
"I am now able to confirm that India will not attack Kahuta because it is now clear to them that if they do anything, we will attack their atomic station in Trombay," he wrote. And knowing that they will face far more destruction than us, so India will now refrain from any folly.
In his book, he wrote that he had written a letter to the then Secretary of Science and Technology, Munir Hussain, who was on his way to attend a global conference on nuclear energy.
"I wrote in the letter to inform my Indian counterpart of the consequences of the campaign to attack Pakistan's nuclear assets."
"When he spoke to his Indian counterpart, he replied, 'No, brother, we know your potential and we will never do such a mission.'

What role did F-16 actually play in Pakistan's defense policy?​

Since the acquisition of the F-16 by the Pakistan Air Force, the two countries have not been embroiled in a dispute in which the two sides have used the air force extensively.
During the Kargil conflict, the Indian Air Force used a limited range of targets on the Indian side of the Line of Control.
The Pakistan Air Force was not fully operational during Kargil. The Pakistan Air Force shot down an Indian MiG during the Indian Air Force's attacks in Balakot in 2019, but to date it is suspected that F-16s were used in the operation. Pakistan denies while India wails that Pakistan used US-made F-16s in the operation.
Also read
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Abhinandan could not fire any missiles in Pakistan
Why does the Pakistan Air Force need a new airbase in Balochistan?
How ready is the Indian Air Force to deal with the threat from China and Pakistan?
Pakistan's 85 F-16s are a source of national pride and a major cause for Pakistan's Air Force in the world's elite.
The program began in 1981 when the Soviet Union intervened in Afghanistan. The United States was in favor of selling F-16s to Pakistan so that they could be used against the Soviet Union and Afghan aircraft.
Soviet and Afghan planes crossed the border, respectively, targeting Mujahideen training camps. Between 1986 and 1990, Pakistani F-16s shot down at least 10 Afghan and Russian planes, helicopters and transport planes.
In 1990, the United States refused to supply 28 F-16s to Pakistan for which Pakistan had paid 65 658 million. Although the United States eventually returned the money, Islamabad began to view the United States with suspicion as a credible ally, raising concerns.
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
In August 2020, the US Military News website ran a written commentary on two former employees of the US Embassy in Islamabad. The commentators were Aaron Stein and Robert Hamilton, who claimed that the US military had been monitoring the PAF since the sale of the F-16s.
After 9/11, the United States agreed to provide Pakistan with 18 state-of-the-art Block 52 F-16 aircraft at a cost of about ً 1.4 billion.
It also included targeting pods and electronic warfare pods. Also provide upgrade kits for 52 old model KF-16 aircraft of Pakistan. After receiving this equipment, the F-16s became the equivalent of the Block 52 type aircraft.
Former US diplomats wrote on the War on the Rock website that the US decision to provide F-16s with state-of-the-art aircraft and state-of-the-art combat equipment did not go unnoticed. When approval was given to provide the latest F-16s and upgrade older models, the United States also insisted on extraordinary oversight of the program. To protect the technology provided, Washington persuaded Islamabad that a US technical security team would visit Shahbaz and Mushaf air force bases. These were the places where the latest F-16 was to be kept.
Pakistan has a total of 85 F-16s out of which 66 are old 15 blocks and 19 are modern 52 blocks. The planes are overseen by the US Technical Security Team.
The former US diplomat wrote: "The team's mission is to ensure that the Pakistan Air Force is used for the purpose for which it was hired, without altering them or their weapons, and without any unauthorized use." It will not give technology to the parties.
The latter aspect is particularly important for Pakistan as the Pakistan Air Force also flies the JF-17 Thunder, which is a joint venture with China. The United States has said it is important that these aircraft be kept separate from other aircraft and confined to the area where they are parked
 

Imran Khan

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When Pakistan considered F-16s as an alternative to nuclear missiles!​

  • Umar Farooq
  • Defense analyst
June 28, 2022
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
Retired Air Chief Marshal Muhammad Anwar Shamim of Pakistan had revealed in December 1985 that in 1984, Pakistani military planners had planned to attack the Bhabha Atomic Research Center at Trombay in India because the then Pakistanis The military ruler feared that India would attack Pakistan's Kahuta nuclear laboratory.
There were only a few people who had a real understanding of all aspects of this imaginary military scenario.
In his speech at the Institute of Strategic Studies, Islamabad (ISSI) on the morning of December 16, 1985, the retired Air Chief Marshal indicated that the newly acquired F-16s were "Pakistan's nuclear option in addition to the atomic bomb."
Pakistan was still many years away from acquiring nuclear status and the memories of the military defeat at the hands of India were still fresh in the minds of Pakistan's defense planners.
General Zia-ul-Haq's military government promoted Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim to the highest office in 1978 (which he held until 1985). Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim not only oversaw the entire process of incorporation of F-16s into the Pakistan Air Force but also presided over the formal incorporation of these aircraft into the Pakistan Air Force in 1983.
Until his retirement, he was a close adviser to General Zia-ul-Haq on military and security issues. Therefore, immediately after his retirement in December 1985, he gave this speech at the Institute of Strategic Studies.
Among the participants was Dr. Robert Versing, an American professor who later wrote a book entitled 'Pakistan's Security Under Zia'.
Dr. Versingh later elaborated on the whole scenario when Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim revealed this at the ceremony.
The event was held on December 16, 1985 at the Institute of Strategic Studies, Islamabad under the theme 'Role of F-16 in Defense of Pakistan'.
This speech of Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim (then the leading English daily in Islamabad) was published in The Muslim, but Air Marshal Anwar Shamim did not mention in his speech that in case of Indian attack on Kahuta, Trombay The Indian government was informed by the then military government about the retaliatory attack on the Atomic Center.
Robert Versing quoted Air Marshal Shamim's speech as saying, "Shamim focused only on the Indian Air Force, clarifying the process of assessing the threat posed by the acquisition of the F-16."
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
Skip to content
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Drama Queen

Drama Queen
Listen to the 'Drama Queen' podcast about things that are not allowed to be shared with anyone
Installments
Skip to content
He made it clear that Pakistan insisted on acquiring the F-16 as compared to other aircraft because its capability to attack India was overwhelming. "Kahuta was seen very close to the Indian border and its protection is practically impossible," he said.
"India's ability to target sensitive nuclear facilities and penetrate the Indian defense system enabled Pakistan to respond in this way. The Pakistan Air Force could now target the Indian Bhabha Atomic Research Center in Trombay, which would be a catastrophe for India, and they (India) knew this. "Apart from the F-16 nuclear bomb, Pakistan has a nuclear option," he said.
Pakistan did not have nuclear weapons at the time, but its nuclear establishment was working on a nuclear program.
It took 25 years for Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim to explain what happened in 1984 and 1985 when the Pakistan Air Force acquired F-16s.
On May 28, 2010, he delivered another speech at a local hotel in Islamabad. Pakistan had warned India in the early 1980s that if India attacked Kahuta's nuclear assets, it would retaliate against the India Bhabha Atomic Research Center in Trombay.
According to Air Marshal (retd) Shamim, he was invited by then President General Zia-ul-Haq in 1979 to discuss nuclear assets in Kahuta. In his book, Cutting Age PAF, Anwar Shamim revealed that "General Zia had credible information that India was planning to attack and destroy Kahuta."
In the book, he wrote that he told General Zia that "the defense of Kahuta is impossible because it is a three-minute flight from the Indian border." We have eight minutes to respond and by the time the PAF planes reach the target, the enemy will have completed its task and returned safely within its borders.
General Zia asked how the most important weapon of national defense could be defended and the answer was to get state-of-the-art aircraft and sophisticated weapons and if India adhered to its policy, Pakistan Air Force would deploy Indian nuclear weapons in Trombay. It will blow up the place. '
"We will do them more harm than good."
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
"I asked the President to acquire the multi-capable F-16 fighter jet with modern weapons that are best suited to the needs of the PAF," he said. In 1981, the US administration offered F-5s and later asked for help from F-5Js, but Pakistan refused to take any aircraft other than F-16s. The United States has finally recognized it.
In January 1983, Pakistan received the first batch of F-16s, on which it wrote a letter to the President regarding its responsibilities.
"I am now able to confirm that India will not attack Kahuta because it is now clear to them that if they do anything, we will attack their atomic station in Trombay," he wrote. And knowing that they will face far more destruction than us, so India will now refrain from any folly.
In his book, he wrote that he had written a letter to the then Secretary of Science and Technology, Munir Hussain, who was on his way to attend a global conference on nuclear energy.
"I wrote in the letter to inform my Indian counterpart of the consequences of the campaign to attack Pakistan's nuclear assets."
"When he spoke to his Indian counterpart, he replied, 'No, brother, we know your potential and we will never do such a mission.'

What role did F-16 actually play in Pakistan's defense policy?​

Since the acquisition of the F-16 by the Pakistan Air Force, the two countries have not been embroiled in a dispute in which the two sides have used the air force extensively.
During the Kargil conflict, the Indian Air Force used a limited range of targets on the Indian side of the Line of Control.
The Pakistan Air Force was not fully operational during Kargil. The Pakistan Air Force shot down an Indian MiG during the Indian Air Force's attacks in Balakot in 2019, but to date it is suspected that F-16s were used in the operation. Pakistan denies while India wails that Pakistan used US-made F-16s in the operation.
Also read
The Polish officer of the Pakistan Air Force whom Poland could not spy on
Abhinandan could not fire any missiles in Pakistan
Why does the Pakistan Air Force need a new airbase in Balochistan?
How ready is the Indian Air Force to deal with the threat from China and Pakistan?
Pakistan's 85 F-16s are a source of national pride and a major cause for Pakistan's Air Force in the world's elite.
The program began in 1981 when the Soviet Union intervened in Afghanistan. The United States was in favor of selling F-16s to Pakistan so that they could be used against the Soviet Union and Afghan aircraft.
Soviet and Afghan planes crossed the border, respectively, targeting Mujahideen training camps. Between 1986 and 1990, Pakistani F-16s shot down at least 10 Afghan and Russian planes, helicopters and transport planes.
In 1990, the United States refused to supply 28 F-16s to Pakistan for which Pakistan had paid 65 658 million. Although the United States eventually returned the money, Islamabad began to view the United States with suspicion as a credible ally, raising concerns.
F. 16

, IMAGE SOURCEGETTY IMAGES
In August 2020, the US Military News website ran a written commentary on two former employees of the US Embassy in Islamabad. The commentators were Aaron Stein and Robert Hamilton, who claimed that the US military had been monitoring the PAF since the sale of the F-16s.
After 9/11, the United States agreed to provide Pakistan with 18 state-of-the-art Block 52 F-16 aircraft at a cost of about ً 1.4 billion.
It also included targeting pods and electronic warfare pods. Also provide upgrade kits for 52 old model KF-16 aircraft of Pakistan. After receiving this equipment, the F-16s became the equivalent of the Block 52 type aircraft.
Former US diplomats wrote on the War on the Rock website that the US decision to provide F-16s with state-of-the-art aircraft and state-of-the-art combat equipment did not go unnoticed. When approval was given to provide the latest F-16s and upgrade older models, the United States also insisted on extraordinary oversight of the program. To protect the technology provided, Washington persuaded Islamabad that a US technical security team would visit Shahbaz and Mushaf air force bases. These were the places where the latest F-16 was to be kept.
Pakistan has a total of 85 F-16s out of which 66 are old 15 blocks and 19 are modern 52 blocks. The planes are overseen by the US Technical Security Team.
The former US diplomat wrote: "The team's mission is to ensure that the Pakistan Air Force is used for the purpose for which it was hired, without altering them or their weapons, and without any unauthorized use." It will not give technology to the parties.
The latter aspect is particularly important for Pakistan as the Pakistan Air Force also flies the JF-17 Thunder, which is a joint venture with China. The United States has said it is important that these aircraft be kept separate from other aircraft and confined to the area where they are parked
Wow ye hoi na baat
 

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