What's new

Battle of Chawinda 1965: The Largest Tank Battle after WWII.

Juice

SENIOR MEMBER
Feb 9, 2010
4,018
-1
2,979
Country
United States
Location
United States
In Operation Goodwood the Brits alone had 800 tanks....this is not even close to second largest. (ps....just looked it up, 1100 through 1300 tanks for the Brits, a little less than 400 for Germans)
 

Slayer786

FULL MEMBER
Oct 26, 2011
1,325
0
950
Country
Pakistan
Location
New Zealand
ohhhhh ... now you realized that it was not the 2end largest tank battle.... but nevermind, just start attacking others personally loser.

And yes, the battle had no outcome. No one surrendered or lost the majority of its forces. The battle halted when the ceasefire agreement was signed.
How can anyone call himself a victor?

But believe what you want. I know its common for some people to simply twist and turn facts until they can endure them....

Especially people who think that a battle with a couple of hundred tanks was larger than one with 1500 tanks and simply keep posting blog articles to prove their points.

But as long as it makes you sleep better at night, no problem for me.
lol. When did i write that it was not the second largest tank battle. Cant you read? It was the second largest tank battle which Pakistan won.

LOL, u indians cry babies will never accept it. Ignorant nincompoops. :sniper:
 

Koovie

ELITE MEMBER
May 20, 2012
8,289
6
10,776
lol. When did i write that it was not the second largest tank battle. Cant you read? It was the second largest tank battle which Pakistan won.

LOL, u indians cry babies will never accept it. Ignorant nincompoops. :sniper:
Change topics, switch to denial mode... blah blah blah......

Believe what you want..
 

Slayer786

FULL MEMBER
Oct 26, 2011
1,325
0
950
Country
Pakistan
Location
New Zealand
Well it is no point arguing here. The topic was the Battle of Chawinda was second Largest Tank Battle. Now have given sources, neutral sources also, but it is difficult for indians to stomach the reality.
As always you guys prove to be sore loser. Nothing changed. It is pointless to argue any further here. It is like beating your head against a wall.
 

Anotherangle

FULL MEMBER
Aug 20, 2012
196
0
90
Country
Pakistan
Location
Afghanistan
A lot of posts about whether it was the largest tank battle after ww2 or not?
My dear mates, the thread reads "re: Battle of Chawinda 1965: The Largest Tank Battle after WWII."

After WW2, 1965 Chawinda was surely the biggest tank battle (not war), If any one can remember any other battle between August 1945 and September 1965, the members and I will be happy to learn the name of the battle. However, 1973 war and 1991 Iraq war saw huge armored activities which probably took away the largest tank battle crown from Chawinda; still it is one of the largest after ww2 (i.e. August 1945)
 

Slayer786

FULL MEMBER
Oct 26, 2011
1,325
0
950
Country
Pakistan
Location
New Zealand
Bro as far as i know M-47 n M-48 were part of Allied forces in the Battle of Bulge n were used by patton's army i think for their advance towards Berlin in May 1945.

Utube is not a source too but if u read the article fully with patience and Read the NOTE title in the end then u will know that how much research n study was done by Major Shamshad to write n organize this article.

Forget it. Not many indans and other skeptics will bother reading the article. They like to live with their own stories of the war that was related to them by their elders. Truth does not matter here. False pride does.
 

niaz

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Jun 18, 2006
5,045
204
10,847
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
Bro as far as i know M-47 n M-48 were part of Allied forces in the Battle of Bulge n were used by patton's army i think for their advance towards Berlin in May 1945.

Utube is not a source too but if u read the article fully with patience and Read the NOTE title in the end then u will know that how much research n study was done by Major Shamshad to write n organize this article.
For the record; this statement is inaccurate. MBT of the US forces during WW2 was M-4 Sherman . M-47 did not come on seen until 1951 and M-48 until 1953.
 

Capt.Popeye

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 5, 2010
11,940
12
14,912
For the record; this statement is inaccurate. MBT of the US forces during WW2 was M-4 Sherman . M-47 did not come on seen until 1951 and M-48 until 1953.
That post was made by a "less than Militarily-Literate person". Both the M-47 and M-48 Pattons were non-existent at the time of WW2 leave alone in the Battle of the Bulge (the colloqial name for the Ardennes Offensive). The only Patton that existed in WW2 was a certain Gen.Patton.

Now the rest of the tread also borders on fiction in some parts. Anyway; however Maj(r) Agha Humayaun Amin (the Mily.Historian) has analysed the Battle of Chawinda well; and could be considered to among the few objective commentators on the battle that ensued there.
 

Bang Galore

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 21, 2010
10,685
12
22,736
Country
India
Location
India
It was the second largest tank battle which Pakistan won.

LOL, u indians cry babies will never accept it. Ignorant nincompoops. :sniper:
The only nincompoops I see are those who claim to have won a war they started for Kashmir & ended up getting nothing of it. 2 years short of 50, they still don't have it. Some victory. One can figure out who came out of better in that war by simply looking at how respective historical narratives deal with the two leaders of the helm, Shastri & Ayub. One is respected even today & held in reverence & the other got the boot from his own people. Enough said.
 
May 10, 2013
18,420
7
30,273
Country
India
Location
India
I wonder what makes people beat their chest over a defeat. India was also defeated fair and square by China in 1962. But Indians don't shout that we won/kicked arse in '62.What is the harm in accepting the mistakes made about 50 years ago? :confused:
 
May 10, 2013
18,420
7
30,273
Country
India
Location
India
But all said - it is funny how we are fighting over Chawinda now - after so many years and that too with Keyboards.

What was awesome about the engagement? I bet most won't remember.
i. The Sialkot railway line was threatened. That would have put all heavy weapons supplies to Kashmir out of the equation. Besides the road to Islamabad itself would be wide open - a gap that Pakistan could not have been able to close without compromising other fronts.
ii. One Indian Armored Division was racing on - disregarding its flanks...this means that the Pakistanis would have to respond quickly to delay and halt the offensive quickly, else be cut off.
iii. The Pakistanis sent in all they could at the flanks. This was brilliantly executed. After a few hours of combat, the Indian thrust was slowed down to a crawl.
iv. Further reinforcements arrived and with some local air support halted the Indian offensive.

This was not unlike the Wacht am Rhein operation(Ardennes offensive) where the Indians made a thrust and moved deep into Pakistani territory. This created a bulge. Then the Pakistani counterattacks halted the offensive. All actions on the other areas of the front were halted(by Pakistan HQ) and all reserves(mobile) sent to Chawinda(they had to).
v. Numerically both sides were evenly matched in the end. But initially facing the 1st Armor(Ind) were two Armored regiments of the 6th Armor(Pak) on the flanks and the 10Inf(Pak) at the center. The Infantry div cracked but the flanking attacks and successful assault of the PAF against the supply columns(trucks) of the 1st Armor screwed up the offensive.

Pakistan was successful in halting the offensive. But the Indians switched to the defensive. Tank losses on both sides were heavy. The AAR of the Indian 1st Corp states 88 tanks destroyed/lost(irrecoverable losses). A large number could be towed back because the Indians held their ground. Pakistan went over to the counterattack but gained nothing. This attack was made piecemeal in the hope of turning the Indian switch to defense into a rout. After the first few assaults, the order to launch stronger offensives was vetoed. India ended up with 540 sqkm of territory(given up after Tashkent). In the halting attacks Pakistani tanks suffered moderate casualties. But in the last stage, the counterattacks against Indian defenses were desperate and resulted in nearly a 100 tanks - this lead to the 6th Armor(Pak) to rearm their entire unit post war.

Both sides fought ferociously, but with honor. Something we lack today(perhaps).
Sources -
1.
Indo-Pakistan War of 1965. GlobalSecurity.org.
2. Amin, Major A.H. "Battle of Chawinda Comedy of Higher Command Errors". Military historian. Defence journal(pakistan). Archived from the original on 19 July 2011. Retrieved 12 July 2011.
3. The M47 and M48 Patton tanks By Steve Zaloga, Jim Laurier ISBN 1-85532-825-9, ISBN 978-1-85532-825-9 pg.35.
4. "Biggest Tank Battle since World War II: Pakistani Victory?". The Australian (364). September 14, 1965. p. 1.
5. Fricker, John (1979). Battle for Pakistan: the air war of 1965. University of Michigan: I. Allan. p. 128. ISBN 978-0-71-100929-5.
6. Singh, Lt. Gen.Harbaksh (1991). War Despatches. New Delhi: Lancer International. p. 159. ISBN 81-7062-117-8.
 
May 10, 2013
18,420
7
30,273
Country
India
Location
India
Indian Army's tactical objective was to capture Chawinda. The initial infantry attack did take it but was pushed back by a counter attack. But even then the railway line remained under threat. So India failed to reach it's objective in the end. But so did Pakistan. If you call this a victory, sure please go ahead.

17Poona - Tanks
22nd Cav - Tanks

Note the Indian assault and the Pakistani flanking moves(12 Cav). Had the Pak thrust failed at Chawinda, the line would have remained cut. In the end it remained withing the range of Indian guns. Strategically it was a tremendous defeat for Pakistan. All hopes of making a final push towards Kashmir had to be given up(before the ceasefire), with the withdrawal of reserves they were forced on the defensive on the entire front. India held the initiative till the end but the Battle of Chawinda itself can be termed as a limited tactical Pakistani defensive victory.

Similar to the defensive victory the Germans scored in April, 1945 in the Battle of Bautzen.
 

Jazzbot

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 27, 2010
9,071
16
22,256
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
^^ Its The Australian sir, I just merely shared it as its related.. :coffee:

PS: Pak Army's objective was to retake the lost territory and push back the enemy, so how PA was not successful?
 

GR!FF!N

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 11, 2012
8,706
-4
8,478
Country
India
Location
India
^^ Its The Australian sir, I just merely shared it as its related.. :coffee:

PS: Pak Army's objective was to retake the lost territory and push back the enemy, so how PA was not successful?
retake of lost territory???that was far from achieved as IA was sitting on Sialkot.even by September 22,India held about 200 square miles (518 square kilometres)of Pakistani territory in the Sialkot sector including the towns and villages of Phillora, Deoli, Bajragarhi, Suchetgarh, Pagowal, Chaprar, Muhadpur, Tilakpur south east and east of Sialkot city.


I wonder where the battle was started and what was the objective of Operation Grandslam was...
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom