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Bangladesh joins hydrogen energy race

mb444

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Where do you see mobile manufacturing plants in BD? It is all assembling plants. FDIs come for this because labor is cheap. Now, with such cheap labor why Bd cannot even produce NEEDLES? It is because its people lack knowledge in metallurgies. Needles do not use wrought iron, certainly. Japan was the sole manufacturer of sewing machines and needles.

Korean learned from them and now China has also become the master of this technology. But, not Golden Bangladesh. Its people have many excuses but love to become famous by talking big things like this which will remain outside of its scope for the next few centuries. Very cheap stunts only.
You need only see the walton videos to see that they are not just assembling the products. Japan also started by assembling and copying western products and they continue to remain just about there. If japan had any real R&D we would have seen the Japanese create products and markets for them. Can you name me one single product created in Japan that went global other than ramen noodle or other food products like waygu or shushi. You can not because there has been none. Japan is the sole manufacturers of sewing machine.....GTFOH.....seriously did the industrial revolution starting in UK just pass you by...... i assume the textile industry of UK, france and holland relied on the japanese. Or lets not forget US and Canada.... where will the west be without the Japanese.

FDI comes for cheap labour.... well obviously thats where our comparative advantage lies.

Why do you bring Japan into every conversation? In what way is BD and Japan in any way comparible?

There are many good things about Japan and there are also equal number of bad things. Comparing either spectrum is quite pointless as the two nation shares very little in common.
 
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bluesky

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You need only see the walton videos to see that they are not just assembling the products. Japan also started by assembling and copying western products and they continue to remain just about there. If japan had any real R&D we would have seen the Japanese create products and markets for them. Can you name me one single product created in Japan that went global other than ramen noodle or other food products like waygu or shushi. You can not because there has been none. Japan is the sole manufacturers of sewing machine.....GTFOH.....seriously did the industrial revolution starting in UK just pass you by...... i assume the textile industry of UK, france and holland relied on the japanese. Or lets not forget US and Canada.... where will the west be without the Japanese.

FDI comes for cheap labour.... well obviously thats where our comparative advantage lies.

Why do you bring Japan into every conversation? In what way is BD and Japan in any way comparible?

There are many good things about Japan and there are also equal number of bad things. Comparing either spectrum is quite pointless as the two nation shares very little in common.
Do not please write some pleasantries when the country has so far been unable to produce more than a few products in one single company since 1947. Do not you guys think we are a shame in this world who are incapable to do anything like train locomotives or even needles for sewing machines, to name a few? Walton still imports most of its important components and assembles here. I will certainly say it is a good start.

However, we are fond of talking big. Just this is what you are doing here. A country needs millions of industrial products, for industrial as well as consumer uses. I wonder, how far BD has gone so far. But, people here love to talk about hydrogen run vehicles and EVs. Very strange!!
 
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Destranator

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Do not please write some pleasantries when the country has so far been unable to produce more than a few products in one single company since 1947. Do not you guys think we are a shame in this world who are incapable to do anything like train locomotives or even needles for sewing machines, to name a few? Walton still imports most of its important components and assembles here. I will certainly say it is a good start.

However, we are fond of talking big. Just this is what you are doing here. A country needs millions of industrial products, for industrial as well as consumer uses. I wonder, how far BD has gone so far. But, people here love to talk about hydrogen run vehicles and EVs. Very strange!!
Bro, let me get a few things straight as you seem to get into unnecessary quarrels with fellow Bangladeshis simply because of the way you frame things while not necessarily disagreeing with them.

Everyone here agrees that:
1. Bangladesh is a massive underachiever in terms industrialisation.

2. Bangladesh needs to industrialise ASAP to become a proper middle income country.

The problem lies with you setting up arbitrary standards of development.

Sewing Needles:
As I have explained earlier, Bangladesh will not be able to out compete larger sewing needle manufacturers due to scale. Labour cost has little impact on the price of this product. This one product alone will make no difference to Bangladesh's development.

Locomotives:
How many countries can actually manufacture locomotives?

EV:
EV manufacturing is a labour intensive manufacturing process. Yes we lack skills to make them now but this can be sorted once one or two companies invest to take advantage of govt incentives, LDC priviledges, low labour cost, etc..
What is wrong with starting with assembly?
EV is still novel so the quicker we get in the better.

The global combustion engine manufacturing industry has many established players who will blow any new Bangladeshi manufacturer out of the water. Why attempt to enter a tough market that will die anyway?
 
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Azadkashmir

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reverse engineering, build cars, once a country can build cars they can build anything. japan.
read western technology and the soviet economic development by professor Antony Sutton.
Do what china does lure in foreign corporations then behind the scenes open another factory producing same product and sell to another country at lower price.
 
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There is only one problem with Fuel Cell cars, the Hydrogen tank.

"Brust" hoi geley mushkil hoi jabey - hmmm.
They have debunked this. Max mishap that will happen is that car stops working. However I’m concerned about production issues it faces since you’ve to spend more energy to get hydrogen atm which is what we’re trying to avoid.
Good for Bangladesh for looking into this, probably with japans help since they’re the only ones backing this tech. If it succeeds we will be ahead of other nations in renewable tech. EV imho is not the solution but compromise
I have heard from Car nuts in my immediate friend circle that hybrid, then electric are just interim steps for now to eventually having fuel cell technology. All the big Japanese brands are working on fuel cell cars, some even have them for sale. I have seen the Toyota Mirai around LA since 2014. It is subsidized heavily by the California State Govt.





Mirai cutaway showing the power control unit and the electric traction motor in the front, the fuel cell stack and hydrogen storage tank in the middle, and the nickel–metal hydride rechargeable battery above in the rear.




The plus point is the emissions - simple drops of water.

So far, as I said, storing Hydrogen in a tank in the trunk at high pressure is the big issue.

In Bangladesh, where safety regimes are really lax, this could be the cause of many accidents.
Thing is there can be no explosion since there’s nothing that can ignite the hydrogen inside the fuel cell
If the tank is perforated or ruptures the hydrogen will simply evaporate and escape, it’s the lightest element in the periodic table.
 
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reverse engineering, build cars, once a country can build cars they can build anything. japan.
read western technology and the soviet economic development by professor Antony Sutton.
Do what china does lure in foreign corporations then behind the scenes open another factory producing same product and sell to another country at lower price.
China has over 300 electric car companies now. There will be a big EV stock crash in the near future. Diversification rule should be applied while trading.
most of China’s companies will fizzle out. Geely I reckon will be somewhat successful
 

Bilal9

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I had this man on ignore since long - primarily because he habitually treats people and their opinions with gross disrespect and calls people names. Well I have disrespected some too, but not all the time, I've been known to apologize as well on occasion and I am not proud of it. But if one is remorseless and harps on the same stuff like broken record while not understanding larger dependencies and issues, it becomes tiresome. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing sometimes. :-)

Also happens when one has some mechanical knowledge but because he hasn't been an investor or business-owner, who does not understand the value and underlying reasons for investments in a country like Bangladesh and wants to apply Japanese standards of industrialization for Bangladesh, where Japanese style cooperation between manufacturers, govt. and financial organization to uplift the economy do not exist.

In any case - I wanted to offer my two pennies on some of the manufacturing topics you shed light on. Take it for what its worth.

Bro, let me get a few things straight as you seem to get into unnecessary quarrels with fellow Bangladeshis simply because of the way you frame things while not necessarily disagreeing with them.

Everyone here agrees that:
1. Bangladesh is a massive underachiever in terms industrialisation.

2. Bangladesh needs to industrialise ASAP to become a proper middle income country.

The problem lies with you setting up arbitrary standards of development.
Bangladesh need not manufacture everything it needs. Every country does not make everything because it may not be profitable. When someone decides to invest in a factory, they have to ensure ready markets are assured for their products for the longer term (at least two/three decades and possibly more).

Industrialists and investors also have to ensure that the local govt. is generous enough to offer tax/tariff incentives for locally made products for local consumption and possibly export. Those are the primary reasons that investments prior to the last few decades have not taken place in Bangladesh. The Govt. was beholden to importer lobbies who simply imported stuff (primarily from India because they were cheap and Indian manufacturers were eager to take advantage of a rather large market so close to home).

Only lately, the govt, realized that altering the local tariff structure would encourage local manufacturing for especially non-labor-intensive value addition for common high volume items like motorcycles and cellphones.

This change has brought in massive amount of investments in other areas as well.

Sewing Needles:
As I have explained earlier, Bangladesh will not be able to out compete larger sewing needle manufacturers due to scale. Labour cost has little impact on the price of this product. This one product alone will make no difference to Bangladesh's development.
Exactly, the process of needle manufacturing has no value addition where Bangladesh can compete favorably with low labor cost. The manufacturing is highly mechanized (not labor-intensive like common industries in Bangladesh), from automated wire stamping, cutting , sharpening, polishing, nickel plating etc. It is better to import the needs of the apparel industry in bulk as the item is made in bulk and supplied in bulk, margins are razor thin, even for higher priced brands. Take a look.


Even if a country like India made their own sewing needles, who would buy their needles? The product quality (plating quality, tip wear, temper) is extremely critical, only a few manufacturers in Germany, Japan and rest of EU manufacture these. Even Korea and China have very few manufacturers. I'd let this person go to BGMEA and tell their folks that he will make Bangladeshi needles, and see how they laugh...

Locomotives:
How many countries can actually manufacture locomotives?
Let me explain why some Asian nations started making locomotives.

India could not set up their own locomotive manufacture by themselves, they started importing Alco Locos in the late 50's and Nehru later set up DLW/CLW etc. to license manufacture these locos. And they had reason. India is the largest railway nation on earth. Most of their people had no other decent means to move long distances prior to two decades ago, their road system was horrible and horribly maintained. Railways were the only passable way they could commute from say Kolkata to Delhi. Most of their people could not (or rather did not want to) afford airfares. Air travel was nothing to write home about either.

Eventually - they started importing better locos from EMD around two decades ago and started electrifying their routes. But Indians NEED to make locomotives for their rail system, they have no choice.

China started importing GE locos in the nineties and started making replicas, they had severe quality issues at first as I remember reading. Eventually their quality got to be rather reliable. They needed locos for their massive rail network too, like India.

Japan has made locos even before WWI. But they also needed to move people and freight. They have always benchmarked ideas from Germany/EU and bettered those ideas, as always. They electrified their system much earlier than most countries (other than EU). The Shinkansen (in various versions) is the stuff of legends, but the Generation One Shinkansen locomotive design and setting up the tracks and network was initially very expensive and controversial. The reason why it is so safe is because no cost is spared in the intensive maintenance of the track and switches, sometimes done twice a day with laser precision.

Koreans (Hyundai) set up ROTEM to make locos because the govt, provided massive incentives and Hyundai benefitted as a Chaebol member. They got help from EMD (US) and the French (to make a local TGV type copy). Koreans really did good, Hyundai ROTEM now make locos and passenger cars for commuter railroads in the US, with a manufacturing presence in Philadelphia. Local LA 'Metro Commuter' and the San Diego 'Coaster' use their heavy rail equipment.

Indonesia also recently started making locomotives because their needs dictated the investment, their govt. deemed the investment worthwhile.

We in Bangladesh barely have had the need for more than two dozen locomotives for a two/three year period so far. To set up an industry to make locomotives would not make sense. However we can make passenger cars and freight cars, I predict this will be set up eventually as the need does exist and there is public/expert outcry.

EV:
EV manufacturing is a labour intensive manufacturing process. Yes we lack skills to make them now but this can be sorted once one or two companies invest to take advantage of govt incentives, LDC priviledges, low labour cost, etc..
What is wrong with starting with assembly?
EV is still novel so the quicker we get in the better.
Making EV's for local use may be OK on a smaller scale at first (and using a smaller platform like a lightweight car for mass use). But unless there are export prospects, there is little need for investing in larger EV's or luxury EV's. Export prospects meaning what you said, some sort of GSP benefit or tariff benefit for export.

The global combustion engine manufacturing industry has many established players who will blow any new Bangladeshi manufacturer out of the water. Why attempt to enter a tough market that will die anyway?
Unless assembling smaller sedans for major brand-names (and for export, like India), there is no prospect for local assembly on a mass scale to meet local demand. The demand will take off however.

Many car makers have invested heavily in India to assemble cars for local market which they deemed lucrative.

However the fortunes of the car market can wane - like the phases of the moon.

India's car industry is in a massive slump right now, and it started a year BEFORE Covid came in. Some of the foreign carmakers are bleeding money like anything and layoffs are rife.


 
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SpaceMan18

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They have debunked this. Max mishap that will happen is that car stops working. However I’m concerned about production issues it faces since you’ve to spend more energy to get hydrogen atm which is what we’re trying to avoid.
Good for Bangladesh for looking into this, probably with japans help since they’re the only ones backing this tech. If it succeeds we will be ahead of other nations in renewable tech. EV imho is not the solution but compromise

Thing is there can be no explosion since there’s nothing that can ignite the hydrogen inside the fuel cell
If the tank is perforated or ruptures the hydrogen will simply evaporate and escape, it’s the lightest element in the periodic table.
Tesla is leading while VW is catching up and Toyota is still waiting , EVs are the future cause battery tech will just get better with time unless something new pops up. Will there be a big EV stock market crash ehh probably not that much.

Hydrogen is alright but again EVs are simpler , Bangladesh can gain the experience and eventually start to make their own EVs cause we missed making ICE vehicles and we can't miss this trend either.
 
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Tesla is leading while VW is catching up and Toyota is still waiting , EVs are the future cause battery tech will just get better with time unless something new pops up. Will there be a big EV stock market crash ehh probably not that much.

Hydrogen is alright but again EVs are simpler , Bangladesh can gain the experience and eventually start to make their own EVs cause we missed making ICE vehicles and we can't miss this trend either.
Toyota isn’t waiting. It’s had electric cars (hybrids) out long before anyone else. They haven’t gone electric route for good reasons, batteries no matter how much Elon likes to rev about are heavy dead weights, new battery tech are unpractical and expensive to mass produce. Even with future battery tech, it’s not a solution. I’m waiting to see the bottle necks in Tesla in next 10 years when EV rises, 75 minutes for the fastest charge in their stations. Imagine when more EV’s are on road.
toyota will definitely jump on EV and when they do their mass production scale will squash Tesla but Toyota will wait until battery cost are down. They don’t want to lose the 20-26k dollar market. Their entire strategy is to make lots of affordable cars to profit. Tesla went after premium market and yet they can’t fix the QC issues.
Cathie Woods predicts the incoming stock crash which I’ve been saying since Tesla’s went up in a bubble
But Tesla will rebound, to a more stable valuation. Lots of small EV startups will die
 

SpaceMan18

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Toyota isn’t waiting. It’s had electric cars (hybrids) out long before anyone else. They haven’t gone electric route for good reasons, batteries no matter how much Elon likes to rev about are heavy dead weights, new battery tech are unpractical and expensive to mass produce. Even with future battery tech, it’s not a solution. I’m waiting to see the bottle necks in Tesla in next 10 years when EV rises, 75 minutes for the fastest charge in their stations. Imagine when more EV’s are on road.
toyota will definitely jump on EV and when they do their mass production scale will squash Tesla but Toyota will wait until battery cost are down. They don’t want to lose the 20-26k dollar market. Their entire strategy is to make lots of affordable cars to profit. Tesla went after premium market and yet they can’t fix the QC issues.
Cathie Woods predicts the incoming stock crash which I’ve been saying since Tesla’s went up in a bubble
But Tesla will rebound, to a more stable valuation. Lots of small EV startups will die

Well so you want Bangladesh to invest into hydrogen cars ? Will that benefit Bangladesh or do you want Bangladesh to do EV and Hydrogen ?
 
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Well so you want Bangladesh to invest into hydrogen cars ? Will that benefit Bangladesh or do you want Bangladesh to do EV and Hydrogen ?
Bangladesh should do EV for now and research into hydrogen production like it’s doing atm. Who knows maybe hydrogen takes another 100 years to be mainstream or 50... but we shouldn’t choose one at the expense of other
 

mb444

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Do not please write some pleasantries when the country has so far been unable to produce more than a few products in one single company since 1947. Do not you guys think we are a shame in this world who are incapable to do anything like train locomotives or even needles for sewing machines, to name a few? Walton still imports most of its important components and assembles here. I will certainly say it is a good start.

However, we are fond of talking big. Just this is what you are doing here. A country needs millions of industrial products, for industrial as well as consumer uses. I wonder, how far BD has gone so far. But, people here love to talk about hydrogen run vehicles and EVs. Very strange!!

I do not think we have anything to be ashamed of at all. From where BD started after independence there has been many positives.

Comparing the growth trajectory of a colonised agricultural nation born in 1971 to imperial powers is not going to be productive in any circumstances.

BD is engaging in a wide spread of issues and so we should. Some of these with bear fruit in time.

Economic progression in BF need not occur in exactly the same way it had happened in Japan.

No one really is talking big. The research in to Hydrogen being done globally, there is no need for us to wait to manufacture needles before joining in.

BD economy has reached takeoff, it is similar in many ways to other tiger economies but dissimilar in other. BD has the second highest free lancer IT community in the world. Our GDP product mix is growing all the time with progressively increased in country value addition. You should seek to encourage rather than seeking to minimise the progress.

BD remains an LDC to date... everyone knows that it is an LDC... you are comparing it to a developed country.... only you know to what end...
 

SpaceMan18

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I do not think we have anything to be ashamed of at all. From where BD started after independence there has been many positives.

Comparing the growth trajectory of a colonised agricultural nation born in 1971 to imperial powers is not going to be productive in any circumstances.

BD is engaging in a wide spread of issues and so we should. Some of these with bear fruit in time.

Economic progression in BF need not occur in exactly the same way it had happened in Japan.

No one really is talking big. The research in to Hydrogen being done globally, there is no need for us to wait to manufacture needles before joining in.

BD economy has reached takeoff, it is similar in many ways to other tiger economies but dissimilar in other. BD has the second highest free lancer IT community in the world. Our GDP product mix is growing all the time with progressively increased in country value addition. You should seek to encourage rather than seeking to minimise the progress.

BD remains an LDC to date... everyone knows that it is an LDC... you are comparing it to a developed country.... only you know to what end...
BD although poor did develop impressivly , but again it's still a dam third world country after 50 years which means it did certain things right but also failed to become developed. All blame goes to the political stability.
 

bluesky

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You need only see the walton videos to see that they are not just assembling the products. Japan also started by assembling and copying western products and they continue to remain just about there. If japan had any real R&D we would have seen the Japanese create products and markets for them. Can you name me one single product created in Japan that went global other than ramen noodle or other food products like waygu or shushi. You can not because there has been none. Japan is the sole manufacturers of sewing machine.....GTFOH.....seriously did the industrial revolution starting in UK just pass you by...... i assume the textile industry of UK, france and holland relied on the japanese. Or lets not forget US and Canada.... where will the west be without the Japanese.

FDI comes for cheap labour.... well obviously thats where our comparative advantage lies.

Why do you bring Japan into every conversation? In what way is BD and Japan in any way comparible?

There are many good things about Japan and there are also equal number of bad things. Comparing either spectrum is quite pointless as the two nation shares very little in common.
You are right about Japanese products. But, it is same with products of all other countries including China, Taiwan, Singapore and others. Very few products were researched in those countries.

Did I criticize Walton? No, I was just responding to another post that used the word manufacturing when it is assembling. There is a big difference. BD has to do as it has been done by all other countries of the developed world. However, even emulating is something BD people have not yet achieved. Chinese can but not BD people.

You need virtually millions of factories to make a successful economy rising above. How far BD has done it during the last 75 years? It is almost zero except a few rosy news in the newspapers.
 

313ghazi

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EV vehicles made in Bangladesh? I wonder when BD car manufacturers have successfully graduated from mass-producing the simplest combustion engines that still run most of the vehicles of the world?

Ask the GoB to manufacture a few high strength bolts before indulging in hifi EV or hydrogen products. How about producing NEEDLES for the sewing machines that produce multi-million dollar products every year instead of wasting money on the most difficult things?
Idk, you can buy needles from the Chinese, manufacturing them will save you pennies, but exporting affordable EV's will make you dollars.

Besides manufacturing needles is not hard, you just need a businessman to create a plant.
 

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