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Bangladesh could acquire Istanbul-class frigates from Turkey

Species

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We Bengalis (Eastern Bengalis) have a lot of Asiatic Mongoloid blood. Especially the further South in Bangladesh you go. Lot of seafaring and trade went on in the early days, as well as Buddhist Religious expeditionary activity in between our land and the kingdoms of Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia and China and vice versa.

The fact that we look different than the rest of Indian Hindus is also because of Muslim migrations to Eastern Bengal (in addition to Mongol blood). Detractors try to make jokes about it but I have seen this myself when I visited Gulf countries.

IMHO, the more diverse the mix, the stronger the bloodline. The more talent.

In any case - this is off topic, back to our regular programming...
True. Modern research also suggests hybrid races are genetically stronger.

What I was trying to say is that, there were actually no "Bengalis" before the period of Bengal Sultanate. The idea of Bengali identity only began during the sultanate rule with the growth of Bengali language and literature and the cultural transformation of the people under the patronization of the sultans. It's only fair to say the Sultans being our own heroes.
 

Michael Corleone

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I have seen specs for the Istanbul class. It matches or bests the FREMM class item for item. except maybe displacement. But larger displacement in FREMM class (6500 tonnes) is mainly for expeditionary use and endurance, which does not fit the BN naval doctrine, which is mainly defensive and limited to long range brown water roles and does not go into blue water roles (yet).

Smaller size Istanbul Class is fine for Bangladesh flagship role (until LHD/LPD arrives) because it is armed to the same standard as the FREMMs.

Any way you look at it - this is a game-changer for Bangladesh Navy.
We should look into 4500/5000 tons frigates, the extra weight will help in blue water capability and also help with extra power generators for operations of aesa radar full time
If we do end up choosing Turkey as build-partner for the new frigates, I suggest these be named alternatively after the Turkish rulers and early Bengal Sultanate rulers, which would be appropriate in any case.

That makes a lot more sense than Chetona names like "Nabajatra" and "Joyjatra" etc.

Names of most major naval vessels in other nations have ancient leaders/rulers/warriors as namesakes. I know it is a bit early for this. But it is a sore ongoing point with me.
That's something I have been thinking as well. We should rather name the ships after our own heroes from the Bengal Sultanate, Alauddin Hussain Shah, Shamsuddin Ilyas Shah etc.
Can we bring back BNS Khaled bin Waleed ?
They are all Afghan..
Muslims in Bengal came from there so yeah…. Before that it was just a forest with few people in it
 
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bluesky

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We Bengalis (Eastern Bengalis) have a lot of Asiatic Mongoloid blood. Especially the further South in Bangladesh you go. Lot of seafaring and trade went on in the early days, as well as Buddhist Religious expeditionary activity in between our land and the kingdoms of Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia and China and vice versa.

The fact that we look different than the rest of Indian Hindus is also because of Muslim migrations to Eastern Bengal (in addition to Mongol blood). Detractors try to make jokes about it but I have seen this myself when I visited Gulf countries.

IMHO, the more diverse the mix, the stronger the bloodline. The more talent.

In any case - this is off topic, back to our regular programming...
However, there can be many reasons for our somewhat Mongoloid features. Please note that there was no political entity called Eastern Bengal before 1947. So, we cannot just generalize that Turkic blood is responsible for that.

If you analyze the political history, you will see not only Khilji/ Khaliji Turks but also other Turkic and Pashtun people also were part of the expedition in 1200 AD and the sources of subsequent migration.

Please read "Bangalar Itihash" written by Rakhaldas Bannerjy during British time. He wrote, "আদি যুগে উত্তর থেকে এলো মঙ্গোলগোষ্ঠীও লোকজন, দক্ষিণ থেকে এলো দ্রাবিড়, আর ছোট নাগপুর থেকে এলো নিগ্রো জাতীয় লোকেরা। এদের সংমিশ্রনে সৃষ্টি হলো আদি বাঙালি। কোন পদ্ধতিতে এদের সংমিশ্রণ হলো এ তথ্য ইতিহাসে কোথাও পাওয়া যায়না। পাশাপাশি একসঙ্গে বাস করার জন্য আর একই বিগ্রহে পূজো দিতে দিতে না কি পরস্পর যুদ্ধবিগ্রহের মাধ্যমে তারা একে অপরের মধ্যে বিলীন হয়ে গিয়েছিলো এই তথ্য ইতিহাস দেয়না। তবে, ভালোমতো পরীক্ষা করে দেখলে বাঙালিদের মধ্যে এই তিন জাতের সংমিশ্রণ পরিলক্ষন করা যায়"।

Here, he was talking about the origin of the Bangali people. Aryan people immigrated at a later time. It was about 1,000 years after their arrival that the caste system was introduced in India including Bengal. It was because of intermixing with the locals.

Men have always been polygamists by nature. So, an Aryan male would marry one Brhmani lady but many would take other wives from the local Hindus. Aryan society did not accept the mixed offspring as their own. So the sons and daughters remained segregated from the Aryan society and became part of what we say low-caste people.

These offsprings carried Aryan blood but mixed with local blood. Since they were mixed, therefore, many of the local low caste people are not purely the mixture of pre-historic three groups because they also carry Aryan genes.

During the long Muslim period, many people migrated from the western and central parts of Asia. Many people took Islam as their religion during the Mughal period. During the course of time, all these migrant and local Muslims mixed with each other through marriages.

It happened more during the British period because many of the old families lost their properties and forgot also the old-time family status. So, finally, we became all a mixed group of people where religion played a great role, both in the pre-historic time and after the Muslim immigration.

I wrote a long post. But, my intention was to say that there is no difference between the people of Eastern Bengal and Western Bengal. If you watch carefully, you will find similar variations in any small village.

By the way, with all our propaganda the reality is in Bengal proper the percentage of Muslims was somewhere near 35% that was found in the 1880 census of population. Muslim population increased rapidly compared to the Hindu Bangali population. So, in reality, conversion was less than we think, and the production of children has been more.

I think it is also true even now. But, this phenomenon created a new nation, good or bad.
 

The Ronin

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Not only Dhaka Tribune, but there are a dozen int'l defense sites that are posting news, and not just based on DEFSECA.
My, my so much verbal diarrhea. Alright genius, show us one example which isn't quoting DEFSECA.
 

bluesky

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They are all Afghan..
Yes, you are super right. President Kennedy was an Irish, President Trump is a German, President Biden is an Irish, President Barack Obama is a Kenyan, Emperor Baber of India was an Uzbek, Queen Elizabeth is a German, Nawab Alwardy Khan, Nawab Sirajuddoula, Nawab Mir Zafar were all Persian, Sultan Hussain Shah of Bengal was an Arab, Sultan Muzaffar Shah (Malik Andil) of Bengal was an African.

The list goes on. Would you like to add a few more names? Perhaps, you never read any real history books.

Anyone who domiciled in India/ Hindustan is/ was a Hindustani. Anyone who is domiciled in America is an American and anyone who is domiciled in Bengal is a Bangali.

Period!!
 
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itsanufy

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Exactly - looks like you and I are on the same page on this, as are tens of millions of other reasonable and sane folks in Bangladesh. This is our cultural balance, which is better than India's "uneven keel" communal societal balance any day, which is Hindutva for all.

I envision a modern society in Bangladesh in the ilk of that of Indonesia and Malaysia and other modern Islamic countries, where there is respect for Islam but at the same time they are focused on Industrial development and modernity.

Right now, we must work toward ridding ourselves in Bangladesh of any Indian trade/business dependence which is job one. India also realized this effort lately (that Bangladesh is moving out of Indian influence orbit), and they are trying to work against it (to increase our dependency on India), such as influencing our cabinet and lobbyists like CPD and others, floating ever more all-encompassing FTA/Transit proposals and trying to sell us their third-rate products like Tejas, Frigates, Howitzers (as if fifty years of trade exploitation was not enough).

If we all turned into dhoti wearing Muslims, following Chetona Hindu-ani traditions all the time, would be Sanghis' xanadu. They'd want nothing better than us being culturally and financially dependent on Sanghi India.

But that is not why wished to become an independent country and to call our own shots.
You may have not liking for Hindus, neither for Indian Bengalis, but what to do with innocent dhoti?

Most of your icons has sported Dhoti regularly. It was once a dress of Elite BD Muslims. Just like lungi is not only the dress of BD.
 

khanasifm

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According to a report published by Defseca on 20 July 2021, the Bangladesh Navy, which is looking for new frigates, may finally acquire Istanbul-class frigates from the Turkish company STM, despite the offers from China, Netherlands and Italy.
Follow Navy Recognition on Google News at this link

Russian Vyborg Shipyard laid the Purga ice class coastguard ship of project 23550 925 001
Delivery of the first Istanbul-class frigate F515 (Picture source: Facebook account of Turkish Navy)


The Istanbul-class is a new generation of frigates developed under the MILGEM Turkish warship program as the I-class frigate.

The Istanbul-class frigate, also referred to as TF100 and TF2000, has been designed to perform Anti-Air Warfare (AAW) missions carrying ESSM missiles as well as Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW). The ship has a length of 113.2 m, a beam of 14.40 m, a draft of 4.05 m and a displacement of 3,000 tones.

The Istanbul-class frigate is powered by a CODAG (Combined Diesel and Das) type main propulsion system including 1 gas turbine and 2 diesel engines. The ship can reach a top speed of 29 kn (54 km/h; 33 mph) with a maximum cruising range of 6,570 nmi (12,170 km; 7,560 mi) at 14 kn (26 km/h; 16 mph). She will have a crew of 125 sailors.

The Istanbul-class frigate has an operational capability of 15 days without replenishment. The ship has a hangar and a landing deck to carry S-70B Seahawk ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare) helicopter and Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV)/

The Istanbul-class frigate is armed with one 76 mm (3 in) Oto Melara Super Rapid naval gun, two 25 mm (0.98 in) Aselsan STOP remotely operated weapon stations, one CIWS (Close-In Weapon Station), 16 Mk 41 VLS (Vertical Launching System) able to launch Harpoon or Atmaca anti-ship missiles, 16Mk.41 VLS for ESSM designed to counter supersonic maneuvering anti-ship missiles and two 324 mm (13 in) Double Torpedo launchers.

Bangladesh could acquire Istanbul-class frigates from Turkey (navyrecognition.com)
so pn version of ada is 108 meters and close to 3000 tons or 2900 plus tons vs this one
 

bluesky

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You may have not liking for Hindus, neither for Indian Bengalis, but what to do with innocent dhoti?

Most of your icons has sported Dhoti regularly. It was once a dress of Elite BD Muslims. Just like lungi is not only the dress of BD.
Bold part: No, you are wrong, Dhoti was neither a preferred nor elite dress of Bengali or other Muslims of the Sub-continent.

Now, you will ask why Bengali Muslims used to wear Dhoti during the British time? It was because all the cotton/ fabric mills were owned by the Hindu elites and they produced only Dhotis and Saris but no other fabrics that can be stitched to make a dress preferred by the Bengali Muslims.

So, Bengali Muslims had two options, either wear Dhoti or anything that was available in the market or go completely naked. Bengali Muslims chose the first and remained covered with clothes.

So, after 1947, Bengali Muslims went back to their former dress styling, that is Pajama, Punjabi, and Lungi. Note also that women's upper underwear we call Blouse was introduced by the foreign Muslims who settled in Hindustan/ Bengal. The Blouse is an English word and I just do not know its old local equivalent word, but foreign Muslims introduced it.

The same is also true for the lower underclothing for women under the Sari that we call "Chaya/ Shaya". The foreign Muslim settlers introduced this item.
 
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itsanufy

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Bold part: No, you are wrong, Dhoti was neither a preferred nor elite dress of Bengali or other Muslims of the Sub-continent.

Now, you will ask why Bengali Muslims used to wear Dhoti during the British time? It was because all the cotton/ fabric mills were owned by the Hindu elites and they produced only Dhotis and Saris but no other fabrics that can be stitched to make a dress preferred by the Bengali Muslims.

So, Bengali Muslims had two options, either wear Dhoti or anything that was available in the market or go completely naked. Bengali Muslims chose the first and remained covered with clothes.

So, after 1947, Bengali Muslims went back to their former dress styling, that is Pajama, Punjabi, and Lungi. Note also that women's upper underwear we call Blouse was introduced by the foreign Muslims who settled in Hindustan/ Bengal. The Blouse is an English word and I just do not know its old local equivalent word, but foreign Muslims introduced it.

The same is also true for the lower underclothing for women under the Sari that we call "Chaya/ Shaya". The foreign Muslim settlers introduced this item.
You have to read more, I believed you were the most erudite in this lot.
For blouse present era women should appreciate the effort of one of the women from Thakur clan. It was Jnanadanandini Debi, the wife of Satyendranath Tagore - brother of the famous Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore - who popularised the blouses, jackets and chemises and the modern style of the sari today after she was reportedly refused entry to clubs under the Raj for wearing the sari fabric over her bare breasts.
Petticoat or Shaya came from English women.

Dhoti is a non bengali (Hindi ) word. We call it Dhuti. I don't want to argue on it more. All of you has some biasness with it, not going in detail on facts.
 

Species

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You have to read more, I believed you were the most erudite in this lot.
For blouse present era women should appreciate the effort of one of the women from Thakur clan. It was Jnanadanandini Debi, the wife of Satyendranath Tagore - brother of the famous Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore - who popularised the blouses, jackets and chemises and the modern style of the sari today after she was reportedly refused entry to clubs under the Raj for wearing the sari fabric over her bare breasts.
Petticoat or Shaya came from English women.

Dhoti is a non bengali (Hindi ) word. We call it Dhuti. I don't want to argue on it more. All of you has some biasness with it, not going in detail on facts.
What you are talking about is elite fashion with a trend set by a single celebrity. Bluesky is rather talking about the everyday attire of the common people I reckon.

Also, I don't think Jnanadanandini Debi started the trend of blouses in Bengal, it was well in existence before her. This is a portrait of Nawab Faizunnesa wearing a blouse and sari.



That makes Bluesky's description to be more plausible. In fact a lot of modern Western women clothing are also inspired from the Ottomans.
Anyway, let's not derail the thread further.
 

Zarvan

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I have seen specs for the Istanbul class. It matches or bests the FREMM class item for item. except maybe displacement. But larger displacement in FREMM class (6500 tonnes) is mainly for expeditionary use and endurance, which does not fit the BN naval doctrine, which is mainly defensive and limited to long range brown water roles and does not go into blue water roles (yet).

Smaller size Istanbul Class is fine for Bangladesh flagship role (until LHD/LPD arrives) because it is armed to the same standard as the FREMMs.

Any way you look at it - this is a game-changer for Bangladesh Navy.
Depends on which FREMM class you are talking about. The FREMM which France uses no Istanbul class doesn't even come close.. The French FREMM have 32 VLS. 16 of those VLS are for Air Defence missiles and 16 of them are for long range land attack cruise missiles.
 

Bilal9

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Guys could we please stay on topic?

This thread was not started to discuss female clothing or Hindu clothing. I am guilty as well, please delete mine too. @waz Bhai and other Mod bhais, can you please clean up, if you think this thread is worth continuing and maybe merge this with some other similar threads after doing so ? Appreciate the attention.

We have to start the habit and discipline of making on-topic posts in this sub-forum.
 

Bilal9

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Depends on which FREMM class you are talking about. The FREMM which France uses no Istanbul class doesn't even come close.. The French FREMM have 32 VLS. 16 of those VLS are for Air Defence missiles and 16 of them are for long range land attack cruise missiles.
Depends on which FREMM class you are talking about. The FREMM which France uses no Istanbul class doesn't even come close.. The French FREMM have 32 VLS. 16 of those VLS are for Air Defence missiles and 16 of them are for long range land attack cruise missiles.
Brother @Oublious mentioned,

(https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bang...ass-frigates-from-turkey.718000/post-13242086)

that the Hisars (guessing Hisar-O) are mounted in Quad-packs in the Turkish VLS (I am guessing like the barrel of a revolver). So that would mean 16X4=64 missiles.

BTW Bangladesh has been interested in HISAR for a while now.


In any case, there is a long range HISAR-U as well, so this could be a mixed-capability VLS.
 

MMM-E

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Depends on which FREMM class you are talking about. The FREMM which France uses no Istanbul class doesn't even come close.. The French FREMM have 32 VLS. 16 of those VLS are for Air Defence missiles and 16 of them are for long range land attack cruise missiles.

Egypt bought FREMM Frigate from France with 16 cells VLS for 16x ASTER-15 SAMs also only 8x anti-ship Missiles

Italian FREMM has 16 VLS for 16x ASTER SAMs also only 8x anti-ship Missiles

French FREMM has 32 cells VLS for 16 x ASTER SAMs and 16 land attack Cruise Missiles also only 8x anti-ship Missiles


Turkish ISTANBUL class Frigate has 16 VLS for 64x SAMs also 16x anti-ship Missiles

if needed , ISTANBUL class Frigate can be armed with 16x SAMs and 12 land attack Cruise Missiles and 16x anti-ship Missiles ....... ( same fire power to compare with French FREEM )


but 112m ISTANBUL Frigate will be armed with 64x SAMs and 16x anti-ship Missiles

if we compare 142m French FREMM Frigate or 152m French HORIZON Destroyer with Turkish projects ,
then 166m Turkish TF-2000 which Turkish Navy will use, no French FREMM or HORIZON class doesn't even come close

166m Turkish TF-2000 with 64 cells VLS

-- 64 x HISAR-O or G-40 medium range SAMs
-- 32 x SIPER longe range SAMs
-- 16 x GEZGIN long range land attack Cruise Missiles
-- 16 x ATMACA anti-ship Missiles


128 missiles on Turkish TF-2000 to compare with 40 missiles on French FREMM or 56 missiles on French HORIZON
 
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