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UKBengali

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I tried hard to confirm but could not. There is very little info on the internet on the N019P radar that comes with the BM upgrade. The original N019 radar was an obsolete analogue-digital hybrid.

Can someone post a source confirming whether N019P is a PESA type radar?

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @UKBengali @Avicenna @The Ronin @Bilal9 @Philip the Arab @Gomig-21

No it is mechanically scanned.

It allows the full use of all Russian air-to-air missiles like R-77. The main upgrade is the inclusion of air-to-surface modes and so can be used in anti-ship role with the inclusion of missiles like KH-31A. BAF has already ordered a batch of KH-31A.

Most important thing is that it gives the BAF a better Mig-29 than the MAF Mig-29s which all still use the downgraded and older N-109E radar that can only fire the R-27 BVRAAM.
 

Michael Corleone

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An article about the Maintenance heavy and expensive MiG-29s Malaysia bought in 1999 (same time as us )
Full Frame: Malaysia's MiG-29N : Fulcrum Most Tenacious (daisetsuzan.blogspot.com)

This is an interesting excerpt from the article:

Cheap To Own, Expensive To Use

Part of the reason why the MiGs were expensive and difficult to maintain was that Russian equipment were generally not made to match the high standards of their western counterparts. They are generally simple to operate and rugged to allow for operations under austere conditions but are certainly not made to last. They are relatively cheap to produce in large quantities so if any were to break down, they can be easily replaced rather than repaired. According to Mark Bobbi of IHS, during the Cold War, the Soviet Union's massive defense spending resulted in and allowed for hugely wasteful procurement practices where by aircraft manufacturers such as Mikoyan Gurevich and Sukhoi would design so called " throwaway aircrafts ", expected to operate for ten years or so with little or no maintenance before they were scrapped and replaced with all new aircrafts. So if you are trying to get some Russian or legacy Soviet equipment repaired, be ready to face some real hurdles.

The quality of service and support from Russia is also simply not at the same level as those from Western companies like Boeing or Dassault. Apart from the language barrier, the work culture is entirely different. Business ethics may be non-existent, as the Russian supply chain is notoriously known to be the most inefficient and corrupt.

To make matters worse, the Malaysians themselves imposed restrictions as to who could supply parts and carry out maintenance works on their aircrafts. It seemed that only companies majority owned by indigenous people could qualify and they of course seized the opportunity to inflate prices, since there was little transparency and almost no competition. In the end, each Fulcrum would cost $5 million to service annually, and that's in US Dollars, not the Malaysian Riggit which in recent times had fallen to historical lows.


TLDR, BAF should avoid purchasing any Russian fighters in the future
We probably faced similar issues with maintenance of these fighters.
 
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Michael Corleone

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An article about the Maintenance heavy and expensive MiG-29s Malaysia bought in 1999 (same time as us )
Full Frame: Malaysia's MiG-29N : Fulcrum Most Tenacious (daisetsuzan.blogspot.com)

This is an interesting excerpt from the article:

Cheap To Own, Expensive To Use

Part of the reason why the MiGs were expensive and difficult to maintain was that Russian equipment were generally not made to match the high standards of their western counterparts. They are generally simple to operate and rugged to allow for operations under austere conditions but are certainly not made to last. They are relatively cheap to produce in large quantities so if any were to break down, they can be easily replaced rather than repaired. According to Mark Bobbi of IHS, during the Cold War, the Soviet Union's massive defense spending resulted in and allowed for hugely wasteful procurement practices where by aircraft manufacturers such as Mikoyan Gurevich and Sukhoi would design so called " throwaway aircrafts ", expected to operate for ten years or so with little or no maintenance before they were scrapped and replaced with all new aircrafts. So if you are trying to get some Russian or legacy Soviet equipment repaired, be ready to face some real hurdles.

The quality of service and support from Russia is also simply not at the same level as those from Western companies like Boeing or Dassault. Apart from the language barrier, the work culture is entirely different. Business ethics may be non-existent, as the Russian supply chain is notoriously known to be the most inefficient and corrupt.

To make matters worse, the Malaysians themselves imposed restrictions as to who could supply parts and carry out maintenance works on their aircrafts. It seemed that only companies majority owned by indigenous people could qualify and they of course seized the opportunity to inflate prices, since there was little transparency and almost no competition. In the end, each Fulcrum would cost $5 million to service annually, and that's in US Dollars, not the Malaysian Riggit which in recent times had fallen to historical lows.


TLDR, BAF should avoid purchasing any Russian fighters in the future
We probably faced similar issues with maintenance of these fighters.
First gen mig 29s non Warsaw exports were heavily downgraded both structurally and in instruments. So no surprise this happened.
tbh rn any Chinese or Russian stuff are on par in quality. Mig 29 is notoriously more difficult To maintain than su27 and its derivatives. Mig 35 addresses the issues with commonality but you’reright they have no after sales support. Terrible customer service and zero business ethics. Corrupt af.
pits best we deal with western nations but I would still buy f16s instead of EFT just because it has better quality: quantity ratio
 

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pits best we deal with western nations but I would still buy f16s instead of EFT just because it has better quality: quantity ratio
If american jets were on the table , i would prefer F-18 over F-16.
Longer range and proven maritime strike, SEAD capability.

Forget all of that, why can't we just get Gripens ? the EW system is phenomenal and puts Rafale's EW system to shame.
All you need for 1 squadron of gripens is one C-130 , fuel trucks , 10 conscripts and some officers (as ground crew) and paved road (about 800m) for takeoff and landing.

These things cost less and BAF tried to get refurbished examples but now isn't considering them.
 

Michael Corleone

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If american jets were on the table , i would prefer F-18 over F-16.
Longer range and proven maritime strike, SEAD capability.

Forget all of that, why can't we just get Gripens ? the EW system is phenomenal and puts Rafale's EW system to shame.
All you need for 1 squadron of gripens is one C-130 , fuel trucks , 10 conscripts and some officers (as ground crew) and paved road (about 800m) for takeoff and landing.

These things cost less and BAF tried to get refurbished examples but now isn't considering them.
BAF is just as useless as the govt. if they were seriously about capabilities it’s not hard to choose
 

leonblack08

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BAF is just as useless as the govt. if they were seriously about capabilities it’s not hard to choose

Listening to this makes me feel the BAF chief is genuinely worried and wants to improve our capabilities. In fact he admits we are lagging behind. It appears his hands are tied because of bureaucracy and "who gets to make the deal" competition.
 

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Listening to this makes me feel the BAF chief is genuinely worried and wants to improve our capabilities. In fact he admits we are lagging behind. It appears his hands are tied because of bureaucracy and "who gets to make the deal" competition.
The Ministry of Defence headed by PM is responsible for BAF's sorry state.
 

Michael Corleone

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Listening to this makes me feel the BAF chief is genuinely worried and wants to improve our capabilities. In fact he admits we are lagging behind. It appears his hands are tied because of bureaucracy and "who gets to make the deal" competition.
He’s the prime ministers relative and although I know the guy tried to fix the situation how difficult is it to bring it to the PM ?
 

mb444

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Any chance he will sign deal for some turkish attack drones that BD desparetly needs more than the EFT?
Your guess would be as good as anyone elses. Seeing this guys general BS since he took over I would say whilst there is a chance....it is extremely unlikely....

EFT if it materialises would happen without him rather than because of him. BAF and BA topjob has been given to BAL stalwarts who are subservient to hasina and india. BD sovereignty is not high on their priority list.
 

Jobless Jack

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Your guess would be as good as anyone elses. Seeing this guys general BS since he took over I would say whilst there is a chance....it is extremely unlikely....

EFT if it materialises would happen without him rather than because of him. BAF and BA topjob has been given to BAL stalwarts who are subservient to hasina and india. BD sovereignty is not high on their priority list.
True.

And EFT gives generals a massive chance for commision without compromisimg Their masters.

Imagine the amaount of offensive drones and SAMs you could get for 4 billion though..
 

mb444

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True.

And EFT gives generals a massive chance for commision without compromisimg Their masters.

Imagine the amaount of offensive drones and SAMs you could get for 4 billion though..

Offensive drones are cheap and effective against ground targets as demonstrated in Azerbaijan.

I have yet to see real life outcome of a drone vs jets though. I suspect the pendulum will swing to drones favor sooner or later...

Lets be honest IAF will think many times about going against EFT. Drones.... not much of a deterant.
 

Michael Corleone

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Offensive drones are cheap and effective against ground targets as demonstrated in Azerbaijan.

I have yet to see real life outcome of a drone vs jets though. I suspect the pendulum will swing to drones favor sooner or later...

Lets be honest IAF will think many times about going against EFT. Drones.... not much of a deterant.
Do look at Boeing’s loyal wingman program. Sure can’t win at pure kinematic performace but can hold itself well enough in increasingly AI driven society.
 

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