Bangladesh Air Force

[WebMaster]

Avoid off topic posts. I have deleted 50+ off topic posts with minimal warnings.

 

[Destranator]

Face it bud JF-17s are 99% Chinese technology, Pakistan doesn't have experience in making fighters or its electrionics.

Gripen is however also part Swedish,British and American

Sweden alone still is ahead of Pakistan in terms of jet manufacturering

So learn some actual facts that you guys are literally taking a Chinese fighter and calling it Pakistani.

How fücking funny , at least we don't claim we made F-7s

JF-17 did have significant design inputs from PAC and are now manufactured in Pakistan. Although the systems are Chinese, Pakistanis have every right to call it Pakistani and celebrate their achievement.

JF-17 serves the purpose it was created for very well (i..e., serve as a force multiplier for PAF over a large air space). Just because it is no match to the unique threats that BAF face (tiny airspace, need to outmanoeuvr enemy high performance jets without second chances, etc..) does not mean it is a bad aircraft.

Let us focus on our own deficiencies and let Pakistanis worry about theirs.

At least they have fighter jets. Their JF-17s are covered by F-16s, network-connected and fire C-802 AShMs.

BAF has BAL (and I don't mean Awami League).

 

[SpaceMan18]

JF-17 did have significant design inputs from PAC and are now manufactured in Pakistan. Although the systems are Chinese, Pakistanis have every right to call it Pakistani and celebrate their achievement.

JF-17 serves the purpose it was created for very well (i..e., serve as a force multiplier for PAF over a large air space). Just because it is no match to the unique threats that BAF face (tiny airspace, need to outmanoeuvr enemy high performance jets without second chances, etc..) does not mean it is a bad aircraft.

Let us focus on our own deficiencies and let Pakistanis worry about theirs.

At least they have fighter jets.

True , but for us our dam Air Force is still pathetic cause they are delaying something they should have already bought.

Navy over here planning LHDs while they don't even have next gen frigates or newer subs

And the Air Force over here been throwing random fighter jet names out the window.

We need to start buying stuff before it's too late , time goes by where our options get lower.

 

[Destranator]

True , but for us our dam Air Force is still pathetic cause they are delaying something they should have already bought.

Navy over here planning LHDs while they don't even have next gen frigates or newer subs

And the Air Force over here been throwing random fighter jet names out the window.

We need to start buying stuff before it's too late , time goes by where our options get lower.

Let us not drag BN down to BAF's level. Unlike BAF, BN is a military force which is making the most out of limited resources.
A fleet of 110 surface vessels, including 8 frigates and 6 corvettes, and 2 submarines coupled with local shipbuilding capabilities and a 1000-strong SEAL/UDT unit - BN is no pushover.

Just because a random FB page has posted about LHD does not mean BN has forgotten its priorities.

It is no easy task to design and build quality frigates.

BN has enough firepower to inflict serious damage to any navy if provided with air cover by an air force which we do not have at the moment.

 

[gambit]

OK, at least BD is getting progressively richer and so should be able to purchase a lot of fighter planes once the intention is actually there.

Let us see if some of the experts can help us here.

Guys say there was almost unlimited funds,...

Never mind the hardware. Focus on the human element -- the pilot.

Send your pilots to train with the best Western air forces you can afford. Let your pilots outgrow with what you have, then they will be able to tell you what hardware you can buy. The issue is NOT the unlimited funds but what suits your needs.

The unlimited funds was the problem the Saudis had. They thought with their unlimited oil funds they could buy the best hardware -- like the F-15 -- and that would make them the best air force in the region. It did not. It is an open secret in the USAF/USN that whenever Saudi pilots fly with us, we lowered our standards so as not to offend these 'princes'. Not only that, their maintenance crew are filled with Westerners who are technically speaking -- mercenaries. Yes, under the Geneva Convention, an aircraft mechanic who is hired as a 'contractor' is technically a mercenary.

So grow your people before your hardware.

 

[UKBengali]

Never mind the hardware. Focus on the human element -- the pilot.

Send your pilots to train with the best Western air forces you can afford. Let your pilots outgrow with what you have, then they will be able to tell you what hardware you can buy. The issue is NOT the unlimited funds but what suits your needs.

The unlimited funds was the problem the Saudis had. They thought with their unlimited oil funds they could buy the best hardware -- like the F-15 -- and that would make them the best air force in the region. It did not. It is an open secret in the USAF/USN that whenever Saudi pilots fly with us, we lowered our standards so as not to offend these 'princes'. Not only that, their maintenance crew are filled with Westerners who are technically speaking -- mercenaries. Yes, under the Geneva Convention, an aircraft mechanic who is hired as a 'contractor' is technically a mercenary.

So grow your people before your hardware.

Thanks but I think you have focused a little too much on my point about "almost unlimited funds".

I am fully cognizant that it is not just machine but also man that plays a critical role in an airforce.

Force multipliers like AWACS, UAVs and drones are important as well as fighter planes, bombs and missiles.

My question was more directed as from the base that BAF has now in terms of men and machine, how long would it take to build up an airforce of 160 fighter planes with 4+/5 gen fighters and make this an effective fighting force with men able to both fly the planes and develop a coherent tactics and strategy. Yes by all means first send BAF pilots to the West(US/Uk) for some years to learn both how to fly the planes and develop tactics and strategy if that is required and then decide on which planes and platforms to buy.

I am thinking that 15 years may suffice but would like the thoughts of some of the professionals like yourself here.

 

[SpaceMan18]

Never mind the hardware. Focus on the human element -- the pilot.

Send your pilots to train with the best Western air forces you can afford. Let your pilots outgrow with what you have, then they will be able to tell you what hardware you can buy. The issue is NOT the unlimited funds but what suits your needs.

The unlimited funds was the problem the Saudis had. They thought with their unlimited oil funds they could buy the best hardware -- like the F-15 -- and that would make them the best air force in the region. It did not. It is an open secret in the USAF/USN that whenever Saudi pilots fly with us, we lowered our standards so as not to offend these 'princes'. Not only that, their maintenance crew are filled with Westerners who are technically speaking -- mercenaries. Yes, under the Geneva Convention, an aircraft mechanic who is hired as a 'contractor' is technically a mercenary.

So grow your people before your hardware.

I agree

The Luftwaffe during ww2 had done tons of flight hours specifically training their pilots to superior levels.

The Japanese Naval pilots also probably did the same , and both air forces were a force to be reckoned with.

Just like the Arab Isreali war of Youm Kippur , the Israeli pilots always had better tactics and even with decent aircrafts they still managed to literally destroy all their Arab neighbors air forces.

So yes the pilot matters, but again in this day and age where missiles are more advanced.

We will need things like EuroFighter Typhoons and J-10cs

 

[JohnWick]

I agree

The Luftwaffe during ww2 had done tons of flight hours specifically training their pilots to superior levels.

The Japanese Naval pilots also probably did the same , and both air forces were a force to be reckoned with.

Just like the Arab Isreali war of Youm Kippur , the Israeli pilots always had better tactics and even with decent aircrafts they still managed to literally destroy all their Arab neighbors air forces.

So yes the pilot matters, but again in this day and age where missiles are more advanced.

We will need things like EuroFighter Typhoons and J-10cs

Why not J-35 the upcoming stealth aircraft of China????

 

[SpaceMan18]

Why not J-35 the upcoming stealth aircraft of China????

Stolen American technology doesn't count , Myanmar monkeys will get those things.

Tai TFX is going to be for us , even if it takes time.

 

[dbc]

OK, at least BD is getting progressively richer and so should be able to purchase a lot of fighter planes once the intention is actually there.

Let us see if some of the experts can help us here.

Guys say there was almost unlimited funds, how long would it take to quickly build a modern airforce of 4+/5 gen fighters from where BD is with just 3rd gen jets, no AWACs, 8 old 4th gen fighters but plenty of trainer planes of all types?
We are ignoring supply constraints in terms of geopolitics here but just looking at the practicalities of getting planes inducted, BAF trained to fly them and integrate them into an effective modern fighting force.

@LeGenD
@gambit
@dbc

Thank you in advance if you can spend some time writing down your opinions for the benefit of us non-professionals here.


PS - We are looking at around 160 fighter planes in total here.

Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:

- defend disputed territory
- deter adversaries
- safe guard near shore and blue water resources
- extend your borders
- internal security

Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.

Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.

 

[UKBengali]

Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:

- defend disputed territory
- deter adversaries
- safe guard near shore and blue water resources
- extend your borders
- internal security

Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.

Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.

First, I dont think BAF has any chance to put up any defence against China.

So the needs are:

1. Dominate Myanmar airforce totally and be able to support the BD Army and Navy if it ever came to war with them.

2. Give the India Air Force a bloody nose if it ever thought of bullying BD and make them pay a high price that they think twice about pushing BD around.

3. Support BN to try to keep the sea-lanes open if IN(Indian Navy) tried to blockade BD seaborne trade. Again aware that this may not be possible but need enough capability to make Indian think twice to even try due to potential losses on their part.

4. There may be a need to capture the areas that Rohingya got expelled from if only as a temporary measure to force Myanmar to take them back.

Yes I agree about attracting the best talent as man is just as important as machine. AWAC, drones and UAVs are also important.

I am thinking that the force will need to be 160 fighter planes in total due to BD resources and what may be required to achieve my above stated 4 needs.

 

[SpaceMan18]

I

Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:

- defend disputed territory
- deter adversaries
- safe guard near shore and blue water resources
- extend your borders
- internal security

Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.

Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.

I agree , and we are training our men for that.

Our threats are dealing with our neighbors , specifically Myanmar which is a unstable country which posses 4th gen fighters and always has been threatening us ever since the start.

We have bought trainers and simulators to train our men , but our Air Force doesn't have modern 4th gen fighters yet.

 

[PDF]

I


I agree , and we are training our men for that.

Our threats are dealing with our neighbors , specifically Myanmar which is a unstable country which posses 4th gen fighters and always has been threatening us ever since the start.

We have bought trainers and simulators to train our men , but our Air Force doesn't have modern 4th gen fighters yet.

You also need to keep in mind that an air force needs time to gain experience and developing tactics, doctrines after a new platform is introduced.

For example, Indian Rafales just got inducted recently. They can fly them great but they would need a good couple of years to fully/optimally utilize the capabilities and operationalize into their strategy effectively.

Another hypothetical example would be that J17A with a decade of service would be better than Egyptian F16 Block 52s ( not having (AIM120) being newly inducted or a couple of years in service.

Fighter pilots need to know they aircrafts as much as their wives/husbands. (Lol) . They need to play with them.

 

[UKBengali]

You also need to keep in mind that an air force needs time to gain experience and developing tactics, doctrines after a new platform is introduced.

For example, Indian Rafales just got inducted recently. They can fly them great but they would need a good couple of years to fully/optimally utilize the capabilities and operationalize into their strategy effectively.

Another hypothetical example would be that J17A with a decade of service would be better than Egyptian F16 Block 52s ( not having (AIM120) being newly inducted or a couple of years in service.

Fighter pilots need to know they aircrafts as much as their wives/husbands. (Lol) . They need to play with them.

What is stopping you from pre-developing tactics and strategy while learning to fly the plane? Surely you get a good idea of the capabilities of the plane just by learning to fly it.

I know that some time will still be required after induction to properly develop tactics and strategy suited for local needs but would presume that some of this can be done before the plane is even inducted into BAF.

As an example say BAF buys refurbished Gripen Cs with AESA radar/Meteor and Erieye AWACS, it gets to know their capabilities while learning to fly them in Sweden. While doing this it develops how to integrate the Erieye and Gripen C to work together to get the best out of capabilities that Gripen C/AESA/Meteor combination can offer.

 

[PDF]

What is stopping you from pre-developing tactics and strategy while learning to fly the plane? Surely you get a good idea of the capabilities of the plane just by learning to fly it.

I know that some time will still be required after induction to properly develop tactics and strategy suited for local needs but would presume that some of this can be done before the plane is even inducted into BAF.

As an example say BAF buys refurbished Gripen Cs with AESA radar/Meteor and Erieye AWACS, it gets to know their capabilities while learning to fly them in Sweden. While doing this it develops how to integrate the Erieye and Gripen C to work together to get the best out of capabilities that Gripen C/AESA/Meteor combination can offer.

If an air force is as efficient, then this can be achieved to certain extent. But, first, you need to know which platform will you be inducting exactly and with what local specifications, and you will need to do excercises along with other flying aircrafts, train other pilots (only a limited pilots get training abroad) for the now inducted aircraft, operationalize into the existing infrastructure including maintenance depots at airbases. I don't think BAF can carry on all this promptly. Some tasks are time dependant too so even increasing quantity of men won't do much. I doubt even PAF can do it. If it was USAF, I could bet on them.

Interoperability, C3/4ISR integration and developing tactics after flying them in local environment for better assessment takes time.