• Thursday, December 5, 2019

#backoffindia in Nepal trending in twitterosphere, but why?

Discussion in 'Central & South Asia' started by Viva, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Viva

    Viva FULL MEMBER

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    #backoffindia is now most trending topic in Nepal twitterosphere . Many might assume this is Nepal being China's pet and anti-India , but this is far from truth. Here is why Nepalese are trending #backoffindia :
    1. Modiji's envoy Jaishanker being sent at last minute to halt constitution drafting process.
    Nepal after 8 yrs of political deadlock finally drafted constitution by majority. On Sept 18 , Nepal's major political parties Nepal Congress, UML, Maoist ,Pro monarch (RPP) and various others small parties jointly announced formulagalation of Constitution drafting process. They announced 7 days after i.e. On Asoj 3rd B.S. , Honourable President Ram Baran Yadav would officially draft constitution of Nepal.
    PM Modi's envoy to Nepal came 2 days before The official constitution drafting ceremony and advised or ordered politicians to halt constitution drafting process and include the dissatisfied groups in talks.

    2. India wants Nepal to draft constitution with 100% consensus. :
    The dissatisfied groups are Madhesi parties whose politcs hover around plains of Nepal. They had a humiliating defeat in last election. They have less than 20 representatives out of 601 CA members of Nepal. Other dissatisfied groups are small monarch parties, indigenious parties etc.
    Friends, this constitution of Nepal is most democratic constitution ever because it managed to get more than 90% of CA members approval. First time ever in history of world. India itself while drafting constitution only managed to garner only about 67% approval from its CA members. Now friends, do you think 100% approval in any political issues is possible? Then imagine this is whole constitution of more than 300 article being written , how can any country draft it with absolute 100% concensus like India advised us to.
    Big parties were continuosly sending invitation to Madhesi parties to stop vandalism and come to talks which they denied. Even the constitution writing process was halted for 2 days after it started and invitation were sent to them for talks. They denied any talks.

    3. India advised Nepal to include few points in its constitution and if not done so India indirectly threatened blockade. This is what India advised. :
    a. To allow Nepali citizens after naturalization to become PM, president or have higher posts in country. Friends, will India ever allow Sonia Gandhi to become prime minister of India? Only thing thats stopping her is the fact that she is Indian citizen by naturalization .BJP's foreign minister Sushma swaraj herself threatened to go bald if Sonia Gandhi ever becomes prime minister of Nepal. And how can current Indian government advise us to do so.
    B. To have representatives in parliament according to population but not both population and geography.
    What India and Nepal both has is to have representatives in parliament according to both population and geography. For eg. Sparsely populated sikkim , mizoram gets atleast 1 and heavily populated Bihar has around 30 ( numbers might be not exact) representatives. This is worldwide norm. So, how can India threaten to blockade if we don't go by world norm. Why can India have representatives according to both population and geography where as Nepal needs to have reprsentatives just according to population?

    C. If you look at the federal map of Nepal, it is Pradesh 2 and Pardesh 4 which r disssatified. Pradesh 2 wants 3 more districts under it which Pradesh 1 wants too. The population there are however fine with being Pradesh 1. The strike, vandalization in those 3 districts of Pradesh 1 is much less , except in very few 2-3 places. Here people in Pradesh 2 are killing, buring policeman, vandalizing, creating terror for not having 3 districts of pradesh 1, but those 3 districts are comparatively quiet.
    Same is with Pradesh 4. However government needs to address Pradesh 4 because a large population of their ethnicity live in 2 districts of pradesh 6 which is not same with Pardesh 2.
    Pradesh 2 has its well defined cluster. But a part of cluster of pradesh 4 lies in pradesh 6 .

    VS Gorkhaland :
    What is happening is Nepal : darjeeling is happy being under w. bengal but sikkim wants darjeeling under it , do u think in such case Anyone should be pressurized to keep darjeeling under sikkim? NO. But thats what India is doing.
    Here in gorkhaland, despite having support from almost all the locals, India isnt listening to them but here in Nepal they are advising otherwise and even threatening.

    You can see friends India bullied us this time to have something in our constitution that even India doesnt believe in.
    India believes in being democratic country, but 90%+ approval from CA members was not democratic enough. Likewise I have mentioned various other points too.

    Here is my suggestion : Modiji has capacity to become one of the most influential leader of the world but threatening a small, sovereign neighbour for blockade if what India advised werent meet isnt democracy. This will give a very negative bad image of Modiji .
    MOdiji should stay away from Indian beuraucrats working in Nepal if he is to be again loved and liked by us. We welcomed him whole heartedly when he was in Nepal for the first time and will prefer to do so again and again. But modiji used most non democratic way to threaten the most democratic process after listening to most corrupt , unproffesional bureaucrats of Indian embassy.
     
  2. SipahSalar

    SipahSalar SENIOR MEMBER

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    A "secular" country advising another country not to become secular. Perfectly sums up the schizophrenic denial India is stuck in.

    "Oh India is very secular, don't you see we have banned un-secular beef consumption?"
     
  3. Viva

    Viva FULL MEMBER

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    India didnot advise Nepal to become secular, BJP leader spoke her mind and later BJP refrained saying its not what their party believes.
     
  4. Paksanity

    Paksanity SENIOR MEMBER

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    Nepal is a sovereign state. Only people of Nepal can decide the future of their nation and hence their constitution. Only them. A question needs to be asked that how India feels entitled to meddle in the affairs of a sovereign nation that too as sensitive as drafting their constitution! Respect for a nation's right to draft its laws is a pillar of regional stability. India is no spokesperson of Nepal and I'm sure you guys can take care of yourself.

    Threat of blockade is really immature and brings back the memory of 1989 when India enforced a blockade on Nepal in violation of international norms and regulations. My best wishes for people of Nepal. May you have a prosperous future.
     
  5. Ragnar

    Ragnar FULL MEMBER

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    I agree. Your country, your rules. No one should deny you this right. I am personally against useless, overrepresented Bihar having such political clout.
     
  6. Viva

    Viva FULL MEMBER

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    Thank you. I was hoping more Indians to read this and understand us. Thank you for udnerstanding and not pitching for such hypocrisy

    Thank you Paksanity. Much appreciated.
     
  7. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever BANNED

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    WHY ???? Check this ! and save youself !!!

    China undercuts India in Nepal, plays an active role
    Posted on: 08:16 PM IST Sep 22, 2015 | Updated on: 9:09 pm,Sep 22,2015 IST
    [​IMG]
    Manoj Gupta
    CNN-IBN
    • #China #India #madheshis #nepal
      The turning point in the Constitution process came in March when the Chinese government invited Maoist leader Pushpa Kamal Dahal popularly known as Prachanda to Beijing where they managed to convince him to drop his opposition to the new Constitution. Prachanda had planned protests across Nepal which he dutifully dropped after returning from China.


      Under the garb of post-earthquake reconstruction, China has been lending huge amounts of MONEY[​IMG] to foundations led by Nepalese politicians including former prime minister GP Koirala, pro-monarchy trust run by the daughter-in-law of former King Gyandendra and senior leaders of CPN (UML) and Maoists.

      And it's not just limited to the politicians. The Chinese People's Liberation Army has offered to train more than 100 officers of the Nepal Army in 40 different courses starting from 2015. Recently the Nepal Army decided to procure double base propellants, rifles and pistols from a CHINESE SUPPLIER[​IMG], M/s Wuhan Hujian. Another Chinese company, PCCW Global also sold VSAT communication equipment worth more than $4 million to the Nepal Army.
     
  8. Viva

    Viva FULL MEMBER

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    We will. Thanks.
     
  9. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever BANNED

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    Good plz don't come asking any help .Go to china and Its time to fence our borders .All the best
     
  10. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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    India is a threat to all SAAR countries sovereignty
     
  11. extra terrestrial

    extra terrestrial FULL MEMBER

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    Congratulations for the new constitution, I have some Nepali friends in FB and all of them are looking quite jubilated... :-)

    Interfering on the constitution of a sovereign is gross and it's quite amazing to see how the Nepalis are giving a proper answer to India. However, be alerted, a massive media propaganda by Indian lobbyists is about to follow. I hope your government is well prepared to tackle the issue. All the very best! :tup:
     
  12. Hindustani78

    Hindustani78 BANNED

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    Nepal can maintain its Hindu traditions even after adopting secular consitution. Nepal do have problem because of interference from other non SAARC states.
     
  13. Viva

    Viva FULL MEMBER

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    Highly agreed.

    Thank you Brother. But we would like to remind India that we are not against India or Indian. We can never forget the help we recieved from India during earthquake and other neighbours too. But ordering or asking for ammendments in our constitution is not appreciated at all. This is Nepal's Constitution not India's. And we were finally getting over political deadlock that has been there since 8 yrs.

    Secularism in Nepal comes with a clause . Nepal is a secular country but constitution states of preserving the Sanatan Dharma i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism and Kirantism. Killing of cow is still illeagal.

    We love and adore our Muslim brothers. We have alwars remained together in peace and harmony. So is with Christian.
    But yes missionaries are forcing poor people to change religion by providing them money, medicine. In some villages , if you fall sick, you could get medicine only if you convert your religion to christianity. But according to new constitution paid conversion is illeagal.

    I am a nig fan of Modiji but this ti e he listened to wrong people.
     
  14. Darmashkian

    Darmashkian FULL MEMBER

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    Firstly,I salute & congratulate what Nepal has done to it's constitution & for completing it & getting it right(or at least most of it), especially regarding secularism & sanatana dharma :)

    & it's really nice to know that you have banned eating the cow & made it part of your constitution & given rights to sexual minorities. Something which even India hasn't done.

    & by the way be very careful regarding the missionaries, just because converting is illegal means that it will stop them.
    & especially with the way the Commies get along with the missionaries, they get along very well when it comes to taking on the Sanatana Dharma
    The Church also tells new converts to stick to their old religion "officially" or atleast on paper, but in the safety of their homes/fellow christians call themselves christians & work towards spreading their religion.
    This has happened a lot in my home state in South India & in the rest of my country & I am sure is already happening in Nepal too . So be vigilant!!

    Indian people have nothing against Nepal or Nepalis. Many Indian see Nepalis as their friends & brothers. Many Nepali people work in India in multiple fields & aren't discriminated agaisnt. Nepali is even an official language here seeing the close friendship that India & Nepal had... or at least in the past as I think Nepali people hate India these days
    Also The Govt. of India is not one to force/ram it's way down the throat of others..

    India's concerns arise from the fact that the Madhesis are protesting against this constitution in large numbers , & any instability in Nepal especially in the areas bordering India which are Madheshi-dominated will affect India too sooner or later

    Yes not everybody in India agreed to it's constitution when it came up to the vote.
    But nobody protested in large numbers like the Madheshis are doing right now - whether it be the Tamils,Telugus,Muslims,Hindi speakers, Dalits,Tribals,North-East Indians etc.. or accused the constitution of being against them,their language,their culture etc

    also
    "The main crux of the problem from the Indian viewpoint is that the Madhesis have reacted violently to their country’s new constitution which had been in the making for last seven years. Madhesis, along with the Tharus, form the bulk of population of Terai. The Terai region constitutes one-fifth of Nepal’s landmass, but accounts for over half of the nation's population. The Madhesis have been fighting for equal representation in the country's political structure and the new constitution, according to them, has failed to meet their aspirations."
    Nepal gets a new constitution, but here's why it has got India worried - Firstpost
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Read this article too:-
    Ajit Doval wades into the frame as India calls its Nepal Envoy for consultations - Firstpost

    The high-profile National Security Adviser Ajit Doval has been brought into the frame by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the recently triggered Nepal crisis as India’s worst fears have finally come true in the landlocked Himalayan country forcing India to call its ambassador in Nepal Ranjit Rae to New Delhi for consultations.

    China, it transpires, has been behind India’s latest diplomatic embarrassment as Nepali politicians like Khagada Prasad Sharma Oli, better known as KP Oli, have cleverly played the familiar China card against India in the recent promulgation of Nepal’s new constitution.

    [​IMG]
    Protests in Nepal. AP

    With the help of Nepalese leaders like Oli and his comrades China has successfully managed to score a crucial brownie point over India in the constitution episode.

    China has made deep forays into the Nepalese political establishment that explains Kathmandu cocking a snook at New Delhi on the sensitive issue of promulgation of Nepal’s secular and democratic constitution.

    Oli, the top leader of Communist Party of Nepal (Unified-Marxist - Leninist) , has been in the forefront of Nepalese left-leaning politicians in handing a most severe diplomatic embarrassment to India by promulgating Nepal's new constitution without addressing Indian concerns.

    The government of India has got classified reports from Kathmandu suggesting that Oli has furthered China’s agenda in promulgation of Nepalese constitution which largely keeps the Madhesis under-represented in Nepal’s polity. Since Nepal's Madhes region borders India the Madhesis are looked upon by China as Indian stooges and therefore their political and demographic rights have been ignored in the Nepalese constitution.

    The Madhesis have been demanding their representation in Nepal's political and parliamentary architecture as per their demographic strength and not on the basis of the area they are populated in. The Madhesis account for over 50 percent of Nepal’s population though area-wise they account for only 20 percent of the total Nepalese landmass.

    China looks upon the Madhesis as India’s pocket borough and therefore a threat to its influence in Nepal.

    This explains India’s strong reaction on 21 September on Nepal's political development, the third in as many days. Here is the complete text of the Ministry of External Affairs on Nepal with pithy analysis in parenthesis after each paragraph.

    “We are deeply concerned over the incidents of violence resulting in death and injury in regions of Nepal bordering India following the promulgation of Constitution yesterday. Our freight companies and transporters have also voiced complaints about the difficulties they are facing in movement within Nepal and their security concerns, due to the prevailing unrest.”

    (Decoder: India is unhappy and in many ways it conveys not just anger but also the state of things which have gone beyond India’s control)

    “We had repeatedly cautioned the political leadership of Nepal to take urgent steps to defuse the tension in these regions. This, if done in a timely manner, could have avoided these serious developments.”

    (Decoder: Mark the verb “had”. It denotes that more than India it is Nepal's loss.)

    “We have consistently argued that all sections of Nepal must reach a consensus on the political challenges confronting them. The issues facing Nepal are political in nature and cannot be resolved through force. We still hope that initiatives will be taken by Nepal’s leadership to effectively and credibly address the causes underlying the present state of confrontation.”

    (Decoder: Key words here are “all sections” and “still hope”, the former implying the Madhesis and the latter showing that all is not lost and India will continue to deal with the challenges in a hands-on fashion.)

    The bottom line is this. Now that Oli’s antics have put a spanner in the works of India on the issue of Nepal's new constitution, the Indian response has gone beyond the MEA's usual conventional bounds and Oli’s shenanigans are now under a scanner by National Security Adviser Ajit Doval.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    & yes Commies in many countries are in China's pockets including the ones in India(CPI,CPM etc). Am sure the same applies for the communists in Nepal which neighbours China.

    @Viva I have read the comments of many Madheshi online who strongly support this agitation, every one of them says that this constitution is against them & their people

    & by the way here are some comments which I read from Madhesis online.. Is what is being said in it true??
    1)Moron,at least know the problem.Madhesis who make up 50% of Nepal's populations are not represented according to their population in the Legislative bodies.These areas border India and any instability will affect India too.I can get that you are anti-BJP but dont be anti-India and stop making anti-Indian remarks.
    Imagine a state like UP given only 20 seats in LS but Goa given 120 seats.Its as outrageous as that.
    At least know the details of the problem before you start blabbering.

    -Madheshi living in India

    2)
    Unfortunately the article has twisted the fight of Madhesh; It's fight for identity and rights not even closely related to religion .I'm appalled the way article has tried give communal colour for genuine fight for the rights

    We'r fighting with the STATE for equal rights and why we're considered as second class citizens .

    Lets come to the point why Madhesis ,Tharus , Dalits feels persecuted and discriminated by state .How they have been treated over the time .

    1. Until 1958, Terai residents had to get visa to visit Kathmandu, people of same country were treated as foreigners.

    2. In 1992, during convention of Nepali Congress in Jhapa, then Prim eMinister Girija Prasad Koirala announced that the ban on madhesis in army would be removed so that every community would get a share in national security. There had been unannounced ban on Madhesis in Nepalese army since the time of Prithvi Narayan Shah. Prithvi Narayan Shah followed an undeclared principle to exclude the terai not only in army force but also from the other high-level key posts of the government.( Still we madhesi remember him as father of nation)

    3. Law had been different in 1968.. example in article (section) 152 of concerning murder, Nepalese from Hills could get bail for Rs.10-25 whereas Terai residents had to pay Rs.100.

    4. In 1964, In order to weaken the social structure of Terai, the state distributed land of Terai in Jhapa, Sunsari, Morang, Chitwon, Nawalparasi, Dang, Bardia, Kailali and Kanchanpur to many people with Nepalese origin from foreign places like Assam, Tibet, Banaras, Darjaling,Barma, Bhutan and others. The indigenous people like Satar, Rajbanshi, Tharu, Dhimal, Jhagad, Gangai and others were displaced and they had to go to India for refuge.

    5. Till today there has been negligible or no Madhesi's presence in all the state bodies . (CDO referred to as District collector of 75 districts are upper hilly caste peoples till today. There has never been any Finance Minister, Prime minister , Home Minister (Except One ) ,Foreign Minister(Except one ) from these 50% of the population.

    6. Its hard to find Madhesi as chief of any government office. In sort they are fighting for their identity and state is not willing to accept them . They're fighting because the surname matters more than merit even now for promotion or jobs in Government bodies .

    There is unsaid rule by Ruling class (esp . Bahunn & Chettris ) to blame foreign hands in every thing and evrything turns fine .They stoke hyper -nationalism and thats how they have been ruling over Nepal

    Currently , There has been huge protests all over Madhesh(Terai-Plane region) over Constitution Promulgation . So many People were assassinated by police over point blank range ; mainly head shots & chest shots over. State didn't honor any of the past agreements and the provisions of the Interim Constitution on which second constitution assembly based .Nevertheless Madhesis and Tharus are fighting for their rights .



    LET ME REPEAT, I have nothing against Nepal or it's ethnicities & nor do any Indians or the GOI.
    I am just pointing out India's concerns+the struggle of the Madheshi people. I didn't even know what madheshi was until this fight broke out.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some curious questions:-
    1)What us the %age of people in Nepal who hate India??
    2)What are the TRUE ethnic demographics of Nepal(madheshi,dalit,Pahadi,janajati etc) ?? Everybody is saying something or the other which has made me VERY confused. & can u give me some sort of official link..
    3)Is Modi really popular in Nepal?? Why? After all isn't India hated by many Nepalis?
    & how popular is he? More than the local nepali polticos :P #justjoking

    & once again my sincere congratulations to Nepal for getting it's constitution in place (or atleast most of it seeing the Madheshi agitation).

    Yes some Indian grounds may not be justified especially the naturalisation one,
    But I will say one last time India's main concerns are regarding the Madheshis & China's interference. That's it

    Awaiting your reply :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  15. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter FULL MEMBER

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    Stop making silly accusations without any proof *Facepalm*