• Thursday, December 14, 2017

Babur vs Krishnadevaraya in 16th century

Discussion in 'Military History & Tactics' started by ghaja, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. ghaja

    ghaja FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 74 / -3
    Who could win a battle between the 2 most powerful rulers of early 16th century India?
    Both rulers ruled during the same period in the early 16th century. Babur (1483-1530) was the founder of the Mughal Empire of north India and Krishnadevaraya (1471-1529) was the greatest ruler of the Vijayanagar Empire in southern India.

    Babur
    [​IMG]


    Krishnadevaraya
    [​IMG]
     
  2. AUz

    AUz SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,967
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Ratings:
    +27 / 9,773 / -44
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    Babur...he was more viscous and had that 'barbarian' instinct....
     
  3. Yabgu

    Yabgu FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    294
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 215 / -0
    Mighty Turkic ruler Babür.

    He left the legacy of Babürname. Needs to be read.
     
  4. Icewolf

    Icewolf ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,322
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Ratings:
    +1 / 7,678 / -15
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Krishnadev-whatever seemed more like a paper tiger to Babur's eyes. So definently Babur.
     
  5. danger007

    danger007 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    9,202
    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Ratings:
    +2 / 7,824 / -29
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    If you don't have knowledge then be like that... don't open faulty ..... Krishna devarayala is very power full indeed... can't say like that... who can win....
     
  6. Jazzbot

    Jazzbot ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,708
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Ratings:
    +14 / 21,078 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    And we'll conclude on what basis? Pointless thread..
     
  7. Jaggu

    Jaggu FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    609
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Ratings:
    +2 / 712 / -1
    Probably Babur. He defeated the greatest kings in India at the time. He beat the whole Pathan army at the first battle of Panipat and if that wasn't enough he then went on to defeat the combined Rajput army in the battle of Khanwa which also included thousands of Lodi soldiers. In both of these epic battles Babur was outnumbered.
     
  8. Dandpatta

    Dandpatta FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,154
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,096 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Simple - BABUR !!!
     
  9. INDIC

    INDIC BANNED

    Messages:
    18,513
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Ratings:
    +1 / 15,555 / -13
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I believe it would have been impossible for Babur to defeat Krishnadeva Raya, his kingdom flourished in most extreme conditions.
     
  10. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 BANNED

    Messages:
    10,553
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Ratings:
    +12 / 7,660 / -14
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Well, we know even less about the Yemenese tribal history.

    But then we don't claim to do that either. ;)

    Babur to me was a primitive barbarian, making minarets of skulls in several places.

    The first skull minarets (like the other fil.th from the primitive barbaric place he came from) he made were of Pushtuns. This is what he mentions about the Pakistani Pushtuns (Afghans in those times):

    Against the all round assault, they could not even fight; a hundred or two were taken, some were brought in alive but of most, the heads only were brought. We had been told that when Afghans are powerless to resist, they go before their foe with grass between their teeth, this being as much as to say, " I am your cow." Here we saw this custom ; Afghans unable to make resistance, came before us with grass between their teeth. Those our men had brought in as prisoners were ordered to be beheaded and a pillar of their heads was set up in our camp.

    I don't give a flying f*** if he was "brave", to me he was just a primitive barbarian from a primitive barbaric place.
     
  11. GR!FF!N

    GR!FF!N ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,706
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Ratings:
    +11 / 8,405 / -15
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    First,Babur's advantage in any battle was his cannon..sometimes mounted and guarded these cannons worked for himm..in the battle of Panipat against Lodi,his success was simply luck..

    in both battle,it was sound of cannon that made war elephants stampede their own man and in both cases,the abandon of ally caused them to loose the battle..

    Krishnadevaraya had a huge army...example..only in the campaign against Raichur, it is said that 703,000 foot soldiers, 32,600 cavalry and 551 elephants were used.. :cheesy:

    with this kind of brute force,he captured whole Deccan...

    I'd say,both Babur and Krishnadevaraya would won in their home turf...
     
  12. Water Car Engineer

    Water Car Engineer ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    12,163
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Ratings:
    +11 / 21,037 / -6
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    India
    Babur would have superior artillery I would guess.
     
  13. SwatCat

    SwatCat FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    529
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Ratings:
    +0 / 390 / -0
    Krishna Devaraya has a well organized and battle hardened army

    The army of Raya consists of

    Where as Babur army faced

    Clearly shows that Krishna Devaraya has a very strong cavalry force along with War elephants compared to Ibrahim Lodi.

    Terrain plays a vital role in the battle.

    if we take into account of a plain terrain Krishnadevaraya with his cavalry can defeat Babur. He can charge against Babur's artillery and destroy.If it is a Jungle or Mountainous the numerical superiority of Raya forces will win him the battle.
     
  14. krash

    krash SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,049
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Ratings:
    +12 / 3,790 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Canada
    And he gave you and us the Mogul empire and dynasty. You know, the one we're both so proud to show to the world......flip side my friend, flip side.
     
  15. Sashan

    Sashan SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,293
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Ratings:
    +2 / 4,161 / -0
    Babur had less than 25,000 soldiers while fighting Lodi whereas Krishnadevaraya used more than 700,000 soldiers in one of the campaigns against Deccan sultanates - siege of Raichur. Babur had about 25 Cannons (the earliest instance of use of Field artillery) against Lodi who did not have any Cannons and though he had 100,000 men and few hundred elephants as well, the Cannons frightened the elephants while providing decisive advantage in the battlefield for Babur.

    Krishnadevaraya used Cannons as well in the Siege of Raichur while Ismail Adil Shah had 200 Cannons.

    So here is the comparison

    Babur with 12000 men and about 25 cannons vs Lodi with 100,000 men and 1000 elephants - Decisive victory Babur

    Krishnadevaraya with 700,000 men, 27,000 cavalry, 500 elephants, some cannons(don't know the nos but the technology was provided by Portuguese) - Adilshah - 200 heavy cannons and few hundred smaller cannons(technology from Ottoman gun makers) - he had in 400 to 500 cannons in total captured by Krishnadevaraya when he won the war.


    So it is a straight forward inference - Cannons proved an advantage for Babur with Lodi

    Conclusion

    But with Krishnadevaraya's 7 times larger force compared to Lodi, Babur with smaller no of men with no Cannon advantage wouldn't have been able to do anything. Babur's army would have been slaughtered in the battle.