• Thursday, April 25, 2019

Australia signs $50b Attack submarine deal with French shipbuilder

Discussion in 'Naval Warfare' started by The SC, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    Sydney: After several years of negotiations, officials will on Monday sign an agreement for the construction of the Australian Navy's fleet of new submarines.


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    Minister for Defence Christopher Pyne during a visit to the submarine construction yard at Osborne, Adelaide in December.Credit:AAP


    The federal government announced the signing of the Attack class submarine Strategic Partnering Agreement with French shipbuilder Naval Group.

    Defence and Naval Group officials have been locked in negotiations for several years to produce the 12 submarines.

    In December there were reports the $50 billion project could arrive late and cost millions more than expected.

    However, a joint statement from Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Defence Minister Christopher Pyne said work would continue on the first attack class submarine, to be named HMAS Attack, to deliver it within budget in the early 2030s.

    The formal signing of the agreement is a "defining moment for the country," the statement said.

    "The submarines will help protect Australia's security and prosperity for decades to come and also deepen the defence relationship between Australia and France."

    Construction on the "regionally superior" submarines has already begun and work will continue under the agreement, which represents the contractual basis for the program, it said.

    The submarines are a major pillar of the government's $90 billion National Shipbuilding Plan, under which 54 naval vessels will be built in Australia.

    The development of the submarine construction yard at Osborne in South Australia is continuing as part of other activities required to deliver the program.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...-with-french-shipbuilder-20190211-p50wwe.html


    Attack Class Future Submarines

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    Australia’s new future submarines will be known as the Attack class.

    Minister for Defence, the Hon Christopher Pyne MP, said the first submarine will be called HMAS Attack and will be delivered to the Navy in the early 2030s.

    “The Attack class represents the inherent stealth, long-range endurance and lethality of a submarine,” said Minister Pyne.

    Chief of Navy, Vice Admiral Michael Noonan, said the Attack class will provide Australia with a regionally superior submarine.

    “The Attack class will meet the Navy’s capability needs and help protect our security and prosperity for decades to come,” said Vice Admiral Noonan

    “I can also announce the negotiations between the Commonwealth and Naval Group on all key provisions of the Strategic Partnering Agreement (SPA) have been completed,” Minister Pyne said. “I congratulate everyone involved in achieving this significant milestone.”

    The SPA will be signed in early 2019 and will govern the delivery of the Attack class over the decades to come.

    “Work on the design of the Attack class will continue without interruption under the Design and Mobilisation Contract which was signed on 30 September 2016.”

    The full range of other activities required to deliver this major program, including the development of the submarine construction yard, and the ongoing engagement of Australian industry to achieve Australian sovereignty, are also continuing.

    http://naval-group.com.au/2018/12/17/attack-class-future-submarines/
     
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  2. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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    That's 3 billion US dollars per Submarine.
     
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  3. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    Yep.. and no one is saying its being milked by France..Hahaha!
     
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  4. ARMalik

    ARMalik FULL MEMBER

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    We also currently have 3 x Air Defence Destroyers being built for $10-billion dollars!! That's insane. I have never understood the extremely high price tag on these defence equipment. Not only is the price tag extremely high, there has been a history of major defects. Example, the existing Collins Class Subs had major issues with their propulsion and other items which to this day still continue.
     
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  5. randomradio

    randomradio SENIOR MEMBER

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    India is expecting the P-75I subs to come in at less than a billion bucks. So there's no way the SMX Ocean will be three times as expensive without, say, long term support costs included, or something else.

    Note that the Barracuda class with a nuclear reactor costs France 1.3B euros each, with the reactor alone comfortably costing 30%.

    I'm betting Australia is talking about the entire program cost of the 12 submarines.
     
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  6. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    The submarines are a cornerstone of the $ 90 billion national shipbuilding plan, under which 54 ships will be built in Australia.

    The $ 50 billion project will not only design and build 12 submarines that are superior to the Australian Navy's regional level - it will also boost local industry, providing thousands of jobs and transferring world-class technology, knowledge and expertise to Australia.

    *it is in Australian Dollars ($ 40 Billion US)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  7. Chimgathar

    Chimgathar FULL MEMBER

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    Is this deal for Diesel Electric submarines, it seems very very expensive.
     
  8. airmarshal

    airmarshal SENIOR MEMBER

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    $50 billion for 12 submarines!! Is the quoted figure correct?

    50/12 = $4.17 billion per submarine. This cant be right.
     
  9. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

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    Same most advanced technologies, only the French one uses Nuclear propulsion and the Australian uses AIP instead.. And an overall 100% TOT.. plus 25 years of maintenance
    Note that the program has a life span from 2027 to 2050.. where Australia will be able to make its own with the latest technologies of the day as it is for these subs now.. So it is really an investment in the future..

     
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  10. ARMalik

    ARMalik FULL MEMBER

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    Yes diesel. The excuse always has been that Aussie Submarines are superior since they have to patrol a vast area of sea and thus have high 'endurance' requirements. Unless our military is lying and these are actually nuclear submarine, I find it hard to believe the price tag of these Subs.

    Mate, the notion of 'Superior' subs goes out of the window when you see huge defects with the existing Collins Class Subs - again the notion when they were buying Collins Class was that these would be 'Superior' and nothing would match these Subs. They spent millions upon milions to try to fix issues with propulsion but the issues still persist.

    Speaking of Local jobs, the ASC which is the private local ship builder here does not have the capacity to meet any deadlines. There was a detailed report done which clearly outline the deficiencies with ASC, and how it would cost much more to produce in Australia rather than produce these in Spain or France, etc.
     
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  11. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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  12. Dash

    Dash SENIOR MEMBER

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    Thats where you get it wrong. This includes support, building infra etc, this is the life cycle cost amortized over a time.
     
  13. Super Falcon

    Super Falcon ELITE MEMBER

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    Should have bought virgina class or japanese subs more advanced than these
     
  14. MMM-E

    MMM-E SENIOR MEMBER

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    because of Australia has no its own defense Industry and the US,the UK,France,etc are milking countries such as Australia and Saudi Arabia

    You said that Australia also currently has 3 x Air Defence Destroyers being built for $10-billion dollars ( That's insane crazy )
    and Australia is still dependent on the US ( American AEGIS combat management system , SPY-1D Radar , ESSM , SM-2 and HARPOON Missiles ,etc )


    on the other hand Turkey develops TF-2000 class Air Defence Destroyer for $1 billion
    That means 3 x Hobart class Destroyers = $10 bil ....... 10 x TF-2000 class Destroyers = $10 billion

    because Turkey will be the 3rd NATO state in 2020s to use own systems on own 7000t TF-2000 class Destroyer after the US and France

    -- GENESIS combat management system
    -- CAFRAD Naval Radar ( GaN based AESA technology and range of 450km )
    -- HISAR and SIPER surface to air missiles
    -- KORKUT-D 35mm CIWS
    -- ATMACA Anti Ship Missile ( range of 220+km )
    -- GEZGIN Land attack cruise missile ( range of 800+km )
    -- TUBITAK high energy LASER
    -- SAPAN RAM
    -- ORKA Lightweight Torpedo
    -- ARES-2N Electronic Warfare System
    -- HIZIR Torpedo counter measure System
    -- HIZIR-LFAS Low Frequency Towed Active Sonar


    btw Turkey buys 100 F-35A stealth Fighter Jets for max $10 billion ... Turkey is a global partner of F35 program
    on the other hand Saudi Arabia buys 84 F-15SA for $22 billion

    Turkey has smaller defense budget than Australia and Saudi Arabia but Turkish Military is more stronger

    now You can understand the extremely high price tag on these defence equipment
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2019
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  15. Oublious

    Oublious BANNED

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    stop involving Turkey in every topic.
     
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