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Aukus: UK, US and Australia launch pact to counter China

Oldman1

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This is a strategic problem, not a tactical one.First, what is the American strategy?

War, the better strategy is to make Australia a military base for the US. The US can put nuclear silos in Australia and build more air bases, naval ports. It is a waste for Australia to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on 12 submarines.
This is Australia picking and buying their own submarines. Nobody forced them to buy the Collins subs. And why the need to put nuke silos when we have Trident submarines parked nearby China?

Cold war, the United States should first withdraw gradually from the Chinese market and rebuild its manufacturing industry at home. Australia should join the US-led global industrial chain and perhaps build a large steel industry to supply metals to the US. This would require more infrastructure and buying submarines would still be a waste.

Competition and cooperation, military conflict is unlikely. China still needs 4 billion tons of steel for its iron cycle. Australia has about five years to cushion itself against a sharp fall in demand for iron ore. It's crazy to spend money on submarines at a time when Australia needs to invest upfront for its future economic transformation.

So buying submarines was a completely inexplicable move.

My guess are three possibilities.

The first is that the US is trying to create a sense of threat to China in order to increase its leverage in the sino-US negotiations.

The second is that the US will release the news of providing submarines to Taiwan next, again to increase the leverage.

Third, the US military-industrial complex needs money.
The U.S. doesn't need to create a sense of threat. Thats China's move. Japan fears it, Vietnam fears it, Indonesia, etc.
 

Chhatrapati

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Australia should really take her own defense seriously. They are not in some comfortable strategic locations like UK and Canada are in.
They are very comfortable as far as location goes. Making any invasions or attacks possible only through ocean. Passing through a series of US bases. And Australia is probably a more closer ally than UK if you remember the first country to pack their boots for any US adventure in ME or Afghanistan is not NATO, or UK but Australia.
 

Oldman1

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They are very comfortable as far as location goes. Making any invasions or attacks possible only through ocean. Passing through a series of US bases. And Australia is probably a more closer ally than UK if you remember the first country to pack their boots for any US adventure in ME or Afghanistan is not NATO, or UK but Australia.
Chinese posters and even the Chinese government in response to something like this fears the unknown factor with Australia being a giant unsinkable carrier where you can send forces nearby if China launches missiles at nearby bases. Australia is just too big, and not all of China's missiles have that reach. Some are short range or medium range, few long range. Well known fact.
 

redtom

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This is Australia picking and buying their own submarines. Nobody forced them to buy the Collins subs. And why the need to put nuke silos when we have Trident submarines parked nearby China?



The U.S. doesn't need to create a sense of threat. Thats China's move. Japan fears it, Vietnam fears it, Indonesia, etc.
That's my question. Why does Australia need 12 simplified nuclear submarines when the Virginia-class is in the western Pacific? Why does Australia need a few extra ships when the US Pacific Fleet is here?

The threat I'm talking about is Australia threatening China. Last time Australia claimed to be militarily tough on China, even Taiwan's media laughed at Australia. Maybe 12 more submarines will make the threat less ridiculous.
 

Iñigo

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USA wins a tremendous aircraft carrier

UK wins contracts for its industry

Australia wins laughter heard in the planet Mars
 

52051

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I am sure pact is about screw the french submarine deal and give it to the anglo countries, it has nothing to do with China.
 

Char

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scott Morrison is set to announce Australia’s submarine program will “go nuclear” under a new defence pact with the US and the UK that has been described as “China’s worst nightmare.”
The new grouping to be known as AUUKUS will advise Australia on how to identify the best way to acquire nuclear-powered submarine capability and share advanced technologies involving artificial intelligence.

The US-based Politicowebsite reports that President Joe Biden will announce a new working group with Britain and Australia to share advanced technologies to counter China at 7am AEST.

“The trio, which will be known by the acronym AUUKUS, will make it easier for the nations to share information and know-how in key technological areas like artificial intelligence, cyber, underwater systems and long-range strike capabilities,’’ the report states.

There would be a “nuclear element to the pact in which the US and UK share their knowledge of how to maintain nuclear-defense infrastructure.”

Senior ministers were rushing back to Canberra on Wednesday night for national security meetings ahead of the major announcement.



Labor leader Anthony Albanese and several Labor frontbenchers were also briefed with Defence Minister Peter Dutton and Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne, who are overseas, dialling in for the meetings.

Diplomatic and defence sources suggest it could involve operating US submarines out of Perth’s HMAS Stirling.

But there was also speculation that the British Government could be involved to support Australia secure the technology required to service nuclear submarines.




Scott Morrison is set to announce Australia’s submarine program will “go nuclear” under a new defence pact with the US and the UK that has been described as “China’s worst nightmare.”
The new grouping to be known as AUUKUS will advise Australia on how to identify the best way to acquire nuclear-powered submarine capability and share advanced technologies involving artificial intelligence.
The US-based Politicowebsite reports that President Joe Biden will announce a new working group with Britain and Australia to share advanced technologies to counter China at 7am AEST.
“The trio, which will be known by the acronym AUUKUS, will make it easier for the nations to share information and know-how in key technological areas like artificial intelligence, cyber, underwater systems and long-range strike capabilities,’’ the report states.
There would be a “nuclear element to the pact in which the US and UK share their knowledge of how to maintain nuclear-defense infrastructure.”
Senior ministers were rushing back to Canberra on Wednesday night for national security meetings ahead of the major announcement.

Collins class submarines Sheean and Dechaineux arriving at HMAS Stirling naval base, in Western Australia.

Collins class submarines Sheean and Dechaineux arriving at HMAS Stirling naval base, in Western Australia.
Labor leader Anthony Albanese and several Labor frontbenchers were also briefed with Defence Minister Peter Dutton and Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne, who are overseas, dialling in for the meetings.
Diplomatic and defence sources suggest it could involve operating US submarines out of Perth’s HMAS Stirling.
But there was also speculation that the British Government could be involved to support Australia secure the technology required to service nuclear submarines.
Marise Payne and Peter Dutton dialled in for the urgent meeting.

Marise Payne and Peter Dutton dialled in for the urgent meeting.
The proposal for Australia to tear up existing contracts for French subs and purchase US nuclear technology has previously been described as “China’s Worst Nightmare” in the region – which could “tip the military balance in Asia.”
In June, the Prime Minister held discussions with French President Emmanuel Macron over growing concerns regarding the $90 billion project that will not deliver submarines until 2030
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison meets with President Xi Jinping during the G20 in Osaka, Japan in 2019.

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison meets with President Xi Jinping during the G20 in Osaka, Japan in 2019.
The Australian Naval Institute has recently been promoting the option as the best ‘Plan B’ for Australia’s troubled submarine program.
“With regional tensions increasing, then building our own one-off type submarines which will arrive in the early 2030s is not good enough. We have no guarantee they will work,’’ the article stated.
“When we built the Collins class submarines (at exorbitant expense) they did not work properly for several years. It is only now – after decades of operation – that they are reasonably functional.
“Submarines are the ultimate deterrent and attack weapon: their location is hopefully unknown, and they can strike at targets without warning. But we need to expand beyond the capabilities of the Collins, and also the French Attack boats which we should abandon.
“Instead we should buy 12 of a proven design which is already in the water. We want long-range hunter-killer vessels. We also want them to be able to stay submerged for long periods to avoid detection. Nuclear does this in spades.”
US President Joe Biden will announce the new alliance.

US President Joe Biden will announce the new alliance.
The Prime Minister is scheduled to fly to Washington next week for talks with the US President. He has recently been jetting between Sydney and Canberra for national security meetings that his office said could not be conducted remotely.







Joe Biden is set to announce security deal with UK and Australia today to share defense technology and artificial intelligence in effort to counter the rise of China, according to report


The United States is preparing to abandon Taiwan, Southeast Asia, Japan, and South Korea. The defensive line will retreat.
 

Iñigo

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Copy and paste

"So this AUKUS plan has no more clear a roadmap to actual subs than the original deal with now royally shafted French contractors? Then essentially the only thing of substance that emerged from all this was a reminder to the rest of America's non-Anglo "allies" of where they actually stand in its "rules-based order" hierarchy"

----

"Oh, much less than that. Note that the (now shafted) French contractors actually had an actual contract. Signed 'n' all.

This, this not so much.

I am now of the opinion that this is all a pantomime. A puppet show to scream out the headlines that Scott Morrison wants, because what he wants are headlines to drown out the real news.

Which is this: he is cancelling an existing submarine project without really having anything to replace it.

So it's all [blah] [blah] [blah] NUCLEAR SUBMARINES!!! [blah] [blah] [cancelling the French contract] [blah] [blah] DID I MENTION THE NUCLEAR SUBMARINES? [blah] [blah] AUUKUS PACT! [blah] [blah] [blah].

I mean, honestly, look at the Australian newspapers. In amongst all the pages of NUCLEAR SUBMARINES!!!! is there more than a line or two about the cancelation of the French contract?

I doubt it.

Morrison has just stage-managed the cancellation of that existing project without paying any political cost or facing any pointed questions regarding it. And all because he got his two bestest buddies in the world to help him out with this little panto.

Scratch under the surface and you will see that today's nonsense contained only TWO commitments:
1) F**k you, Frenchie.
2) There will be an 18 month "consultation process" regarding the viability of Australia acquiring NUCLEAR SUBMARINES!!!!!

I can write that report now, and save everyone the hassle: Australia can't afford nuclear subs, and even if they could it is incapable of operating them safely."
 

BHAN85

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I dont understand how can someone counter a nuclear armed sovereign state like China with a non-nuclear joke-puppet-state like Australia.

Biden can't even remember the Aussie PM name. That's the importance of Australia for USA.
 

Iñigo

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USA wants Australia's geography to locate its Bombers there. Australia is a gigantic aircraft carrier

Australia is (Okinawa + Guam) x 1000^100
 

MH.Yang

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This is actually a problem for the USA and France. Does Australia have nuclear submarines have an impact on China?
USA is robbing France and Australia of a $90 billion nuclear submarine contract.
 

vishwambhar

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QUAD+AUKUS = something is definitely cooking among all partners India, US, UK, Japan, Australia.....

ab-aayega-maza.jpg
 

Iñigo

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Yes

The blindness of Australia's ruling class has reached an Indian level, so to speak and to express it
 

obj 705A

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This "new" alliance (in reality there is nothing new about it aside from the cancelation of the submarine deal with France) adds nothing and it changes nothing, US, UK, Australia were already political and military allies long before this "AUUKUS" existed.
Therefore AUUKUS presents no new threats to China since these three country were already enemies of China and allies of each other since a while now, I mean it's not like just few weeks ago Australia and/or UK were friends of China and now due to AUUKUS they will become enemies of China, they were enemies of China all along. And it's not like the UK wasn't in a military alliance with the US and only now joined, the UK was a member of NATO since decades now. Same thing goes for Australia, long before the existance of AUUKUS Australia would always join the US in it's wars with whatever little token force that Australia would send just so they can say "we participated in helping the US" to regain some of that faded colonial glory.
 

INDIAPOSITIVE

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Australia kept India informed on AUKUS & assured strategic support, says high commissioner



New Delhi: Australia had kept India in the loop before it went for the enhanced trilateral partnership with the US and the UK, called the AUKUS, according to its high commissioner to New Delhi, Barry O’Farrell.

The envoy said Friday that Australia believes this will also add onto the strategic capabilities of its partners in the region, including India.

Before the announcement on AUKUS was made, Australia and India’s Prime Ministers Narendra Modi and Scott Morrison, Foreign Ministers S. Jaishankar and Marise Payne, and Defence Ministers Rajnath Singh and Peter Dutton spoke to each other to apprise India of the new partnership.

However, the high commissioner said the roll-out of the AUKUS was not discussed at the India-Australia 2+2 meeting that took place on 11 September.


‘Challenging strategic environment’
Under AUKUS, the US and the UK will support Australia’s Royal Navy in building nuclear-powered submarines by transferring technology.

“The fact is that the decision was arrived at after deep consideration by my government based on a sober assessment of the capability required to meet a more challenging strategic environment,” O’Farrell told a select group of journalists.

“As a three-ocean nation, nuclear-powered submarines will provide Australia with the capability it now believes it needs for its defence because they can travel faster, they can travel for a longer range and they have greater power and endurance,” the high commissioner explained.

O’Farrell said this an “environment that we share with India where great power competition is intensifying; where territorial tensions in the South China Sea, Taiwan and elsewhere are becoming more challenging; and Indo-Pacific investment in military capability is proceeding at an unprecedented levels”.

“Of course, the latter point is driven by China, which has the largest military modernisation programme underway in the world,” he pointed out.

The envoy said AUKUS will strengthen Australia’s relationship “bilaterally, trilaterally and quadrilaterally across the region”, and will ensure that Australia has capabilities that can “contribute” to capabilities of India and other partners, so that they can stand up against those “behaviours that threaten peace in the Indo-Pacific today and in the future”.

O’Farrell also expressed hope that Australia will continue to be a part of the Malabar Naval Exercise, which it became part of in 2020.

The second phase of Malabar will take place next month in the Bay of Bengal, where the navies of the Quad countries India, Australia, US and Japan will again come together. The first phase got over on 26 August.

“We participated for two years in a row, we hope to keep that going,” the high commissioner said.

‘Continue to want to work with France, India’
As soon as the AUKUS was announced, ties between Australia and France both of whom are crucial partners in the Indo-Pacific region seemed to hit a turbulence, with Canberra cancelling a $90 billion deal to procure Attack-class submarines from French manufacturer ‘Naval Group’.

“Clearly, France has expressed a level of dissatisfaction. But we continue to want to work with India, with France, with Indonesia about matters related to the Indo-Pacific… This should not affect their engagement in the Indo-Pacific,” O’Farrell said.

“What is important here is that the Australian government has made a decision based on its assessment of the current strategic climate,” he said, referring to the move to procure nuclear-powered submarines as opposed to conventional ones from France.

(Edited by Shreyas Sharma)

(This report has been updated with more quotes from the high commissioner, and to correctly reflect that the AUKUS was not discussed in the India-Australia 2+2 dialogue)




 

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