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Attack by Myanmar’s Kachin minority signals deepening crisis

mb444

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Rohingya need to be armed to what effect and what results can be realistically hoped? The Rohingya are a small minority even in Arakan, there are other ethnic majorities in Arakan who also hate them and took park in the genocide along with the military. The Rohingya are a totally illiterate bunch, they are highly primitive and they don't have any educated leadership who can organize them. I very much doubt the Rohingya as a people firstly understand the need for an independent state or at least a homeland with autonomy or semi-autonomy. Even if they do I doubt they are able to be organized under a leadership and work with a plan in an organized and disciplined manner to achieve their objectives. Lastly, even if they had a good leadership and were able to be organized they have very little possibility of achieving anything because the majority population in Arakan are against them and the military and those people will together crush them. It will also legitimize Burmese claim that Rohingya as a terrorist group and lessen their crimes committed on the Rohingya. Ultimately it will achieve nothing. We will end up having a Rohingya who are now heavily armed and able to wrek havoc within out own country, with them will join the Islamic terrorist groups.
So your solution is to aid the ethnic cleansing of the rohingya by proxy because your call to complete inaction by BD is not going to be without effect.

The rohingya are impoverished and uneducated due to systematic racism and marginalisation by the simian collective. Again this is due to BD weakness.

If the future of the rohingya is in BD then we need to quickly absorb them. If not then we need to assist them to free themselves. No people are irredeemable particularly if they are muslim and as a muslim country we have a moral duty to assist our co-religionists. It is easy to stand by strong nations but it takes courage to stand by the weak. We need to help the rohingya if not for humanitarian reasons then atleast for our own selfish reason to create a buffer state between us and the chaotic hellhole of the simian collective.
 

Jobless Jack

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Rohingya need to be armed to what effect and what results can be realistically hoped? The Rohingya are a small minority even in Arakan, there are other ethnic majorities in Arakan who also hate them and took park in the genocide along with the military. The Rohingya are a totally illiterate bunch, they are highly primitive and they don't have any educated leadership who can organize them. I very much doubt the Rohingya as a people firstly understand the need for an independent state or at least a homeland with autonomy or semi-autonomy. Even if they do I doubt they are able to be organized under a leadership and work with a plan in an organized and disciplined manner to achieve their objectives. Lastly, even if they had a good leadership and were able to be organized they have very little possibility of achieving anything because the majority population in Arakan are against them and the military and those people will together crush them. It will also legitimize Burmese claim that Rohingya as a terrorist group and lessen their crimes committed on the Rohingya. Ultimately it will achieve nothing. We will end up having a Rohingya who are now heavily armed and able to wrek havoc within out own country, with them will join the Islamic terrorist groups.
Even if BD law enforcement goes over time you wont be able to stop the influx of refugee. Bribery will be common for BD national ID and citizenship, Many Rohingya are getting these through illegal means already. Therefore the Rohingya has already overstayed their welcome and must be sent back. They are already a national security threat. If BD leaves them stranded on the Refugee camps, in 4-5 years times these camps will become breeding ground for terrorist's and criminals . This must not be allowed to happen.

BD must ensure that the Rohingya go to Arakan and stay there.

The only way to solve the Rohingya problem is to capture the arakan province and settle the Rohingya and any Burmese refugee there. Create a buffer zone between Burma proper and BD. Similar to what the Turks did in northern Syria. Create a buffer zone between turkey and Syria in Northern Syria and settle the refugee there. Creation of a semi autonomous Rohingya state Under BD protection. This will create a barrier between Burma and BD and the Rohingya problem will be solved. Chinese diplomatic support is needed to support this.

No question of arming the Rohingya as that will create terrorist cells 10-20 years time. No room for terrorists and terrorism in BD.

Therefore the best way is to create a buffer zone between BD and the Burma. Ultimately this remains the only solution to the Rohingya problem.
 
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Bilal9

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Even if BD law enforcement goes over time you wont be able to stop the influx of refugee. Bribery will be common for BD national ID and citizenship, Many Rohingya are getting these through illegal means already. Therefore the Rohingya has already overstayed their welcome and must be sent back. They are already a national security threat. If BD leaves them stranded on the Refugee camps, in 4-5 years times these camps will become breeding ground for terrorist's and criminals . This must not be allowed to happen.

BD must ensure that the Rohingya go to Arakan and stay there.

The only way to solve the Rohingya problem is to capture the arakan province and settle the Rohingya and any Burmese refugee there. Create a buffer zone between Burma proper and BD. Similar to what the Turks did in northern Syria. Create a buffer zone between turkey and Syria in Northern Syria and settle the refugee there. Creation of a semi autonomous Rohingya state Under BD protection. This will create a barrier between Burma and BD and the Rohingya problem will be solved. Chinese diplomatic support is needed to support this.

No question of arming the Rohingya as that will create terrorist cells 10-20 years time. No room for terrorists and terrorism in BD.

Therefore the best way is to create a buffer zone between BD and the Burma. Ultimately this remains the only solution to the Rohingya problem.
My thoughts exactly bhai - well put!

I believe the Rohingya will be far happier working their own land (or even leased land) in Arakan instead of sitting in refugee camps in either Bangladesh, India or Saudi Arabia.

The simians and Indians calculated wrong in trying to destabilize Bangladesh by pushing the Rohingya here, these actions will come back to bite them in the rear.

These are productive people and have a lot of energy that is going to waste, just see some videos of Bhashan Char where these people have already started animal husbandry, poultry rearing, fishing etc. as they are sick of sitting around getting measly free meals. Idle brains are the devil's workshop.

But you are right, main thing is Chinese diplomatic support and things are already moving in that direction I feel.
 

Jobless Jack

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My thoughts exactly bhai - well put!

I believe the Rohingya will be far happier working their own land (or even leased land) in Arakan instead of sitting in refugee camps in either Bangladesh, India or Saudi Arabia.

The simians and Indians calculated wrong in trying to destabilize Bangladesh by pushing the Rohingya here, these actions will come back to bite them in the rear.

These are productive people and have a lot of energy that is going to waste, just see some videos of Bhashan Char where these people have already started animal husbandry, poultry rearing, fishing etc. as they are sick of sitting around getting measly free meals. Idle brains are the devil's workshop.

But you are right, main thing is Chinese diplomatic support and things are already moving in that direction I feel.
how do you know it was the Indian though ?

I ask this not as a challenge, rather a genuine question on my part
 

Bengal71

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Even if BD law enforcement goes over time you wont be able to stop the influx of refugee. Bribery will be common for BD national ID and citizenship, Many Rohingya are getting these through illegal means already. Therefore the Rohingya has already overstayed their welcome and must be sent back. They are already a national security threat. If BD leaves them stranded on the Refugee camps, in 4-5 years times these camps will become breeding ground for terrorist's and criminals . This must not be allowed to happen.

BD must ensure that the Rohingya go to Arakan and stay there.

The only way to solve the Rohingya problem is to capture the arakan province and settle the Rohingya and any Burmese refugee there. Create a buffer zone between Burma proper and BD. Similar to what the Turks did in northern Syria. Create a buffer zone between turkey and Syria in Northern Syria and settle the refugee there. Creation of a semi autonomous Rohingya state Under BD protection. This will create a barrier between Burma and BD and the Rohingya problem will be solved. Chinese diplomatic support is needed to support this.

No question of arming the Rohingya as that will create terrorist cells 10-20 years time. No room for terrorists and terrorism in BD.

Therefore the best way is to create a buffer zone between BD and the Burma. Ultimately this remains the only solution to the Rohingya problem.
You make it sound like going to another country, fighting off their military and the local majority people, occupying the land perhaps annexing it is a walk in the park in this time and age. It's not. A long drawn war will strain BD's resources, if we manage to occupy there will be international condemnation and even sanctions and it will create a full time enemy out of Burma who is willing to engage in warfare to recover their land. I am not even counting the Chinese reactions, they will without any doubt back the Burmese and supply whatever weapon and support necessary to fight off BD.

What is particularly unique about the Rohingya crisis is that there are no good options for BD without far reaching consequences for BD, there genuinely aren't. And lack of genuinely good options doesn't not justify taking the bad options.
 

Bengal71

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So your solution is to aid the ethnic cleansing of the rohingya by proxy because your call to complete inaction by BD is not going to be without effect.

The rohingya are impoverished and uneducated due to systematic racism and marginalisation by the simian collective. Again this is due to BD weakness.

If the future of the rohingya is in BD then we need to quickly absorb them. If not then we need to assist them to free themselves. No people are irredeemable particularly if they are muslim and as a muslim country we have a moral duty to assist our co-religionists. It is easy to stand by strong nations but it takes courage to stand by the weak. We need to help the rohingya if not for humanitarian reasons then atleast for our own selfish reason to create a buffer state between us and the chaotic hellhole of the simian collective.
No, my solution is not that.

Obviously our interest is to ensure they return to their homeland as dignified citizens, it will solve all of the problems they have created in our country and it would be the best outcome.

But what if you have a situation when you do not have a splendid option that leads to the best outcome. Please try to list out all the possible options we have along with the consequences for each of them and see which one is desirable. Let me try myself:

1. We accept the Rohingya as our own:
- Worst option, not acceptable.

2. We get into a war with Burma
Numerous problems​
  • We don't have the military capability or the financial capability (in a long drawn war) to drive the outcome we want
  • If the objective is to occupy enough territory out of Arakan to house Rohingya, what will be the legal state of that territory? Will it become part of our country by annexation or it will be part of Burma? Or it will be an independent country, do the Rohingya have the ability to run an indepdent country that small and that small number of population? Will they be able to defend that independent state and maintain it as independent? Will it be recongined by the world and the UN or the Chinese veto will ensure it is never recognized and left in a limo? Will we be sanctioned to death for doing this?
  • Will the Chinese take Burmese side totally and I can assure you they will. While we will have to keep purchasing our weapons and supplies in cash, the Chinese will likely give them free to their allies because there is greater Chinese interest involved.
  • Whatever the outcome of the war is or whatever the international community does or the Chinese do, one thing will be guaranteed, our economy in a long drawn war will be destroyed and we will lose whatever we have worked hard for over the decades. That will ensure that millions of our own Muslim people will again go back to extreme poverty. I am all for helping our fellow co-religionists but at what expense? Will you reduce tens of millions of our own muslims to poverty and destituion to help the cause of about 1 million Rohingya Muslims? We can only do something if we are capable of, Allah does not burden anyone with anything he is not capable of.

3. Arm the Rohingya to fight back
  • Rohingya are a very small minority of people in Arakan who are equally hated by the military as well as the majority ethnicity. Even the Buddist monks were against them.
  • They are highly illiterate and don't have any modern outlook towards anything. Whatever caused this (likely Burmese government policy of discrimination over a long time) doesn't matter, only the effect of it matters.
  • Rohingya do not have any good leadership who they can organize themselves behind. They need to have a political leader to drive any suitable outcome, they also need a military leader to drive an outcome if they were to be armed. They have none.
  • Compare their struggle with BD's liberation struggle. Bengalis were the absolute majority in their own land, we had highly capable political leadership with decades of political experience, a significant portion of the population were educated, those who were not were smart enough to respond to the call of the political leadership and whole nation united for the cause. Morever, we had unrelenting support of a neighbor that took care of refugee issues, handled international political issues, armed and trained our people and finally gave the final blow by using their military. None of these conditions exists with the Rohingya.

Because the Rohingya situation is inflicting a lot of pain on our country, in the suffering of the pain we are forgetting a simple matter. Lack of good options does not justify adopting any option no matter how shit that option is. And the Rohingya issue is one of those peculiar issues where there is no good option unfortunately. If you think there is please show me and please don't forget to list out the short term and long term consequences and whether we will be able to cope with them and the sacrifices we have to make in terms of our own stability, our own global image and standing, the economic consequences, the effects of the economic consequences on millions of our own people etc.
 
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Bilal9

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how do you know it was the Indian though ?

I ask this not as a challenge, rather a genuine question on my part
Well I say this based on a few things (direct and indirect evidence).
  1. As the most influential bordering power to Myanmar and Bangladesh, Indians failed to negotiate a return of Rohingyas to Arakan.
  2. This shows not only India's failure to lead on a humanitarian regional crisis, they showed their tacit approval to Tatmadaw behavior in failing to even protest this.
  3. They were motivated by a few things for this non-protest,
    • Rohingya people are Muslim which suits BJP/RSS philosophy on ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Myanmar, which they have fully supported by Tatmadaw crackdown on Rohingya.
    • Protesting Rohingya ethnic cleansing in Myanmar would hurt Indian Banya selfish interests in developing multiple ports in Myanmar.
    • Indian Banya (Adani Ports) kicked out of Dow Jones Index a few hours ago due to Myanmar Tatmadaw links.
    • S&P Dow Jones Indices said it is removing India’s Adani Ports and Special Economic Zone Ltd from its sustainability index due to the firm’s business ties with Myanmar’s military which is accused of human rights abuses after a coup this year. (https://indianexpress.com/article/b...ndex-business-links-myanmar-military-7271473/). The company, which is building a $290 million port in Yangon on land leased from the military-backed Myanmar Economic Corporation (MEC).
    • India has since not only not sheltered Rohingya refugees, they are trying to push some of these Rohingyas to Bangladesh, saying these are "Bengali" people.
  4. Not only did India not protest the Rohingya ethnic cleansing fiasco, Modi made a special trip to Myanmar immediately a few weeks after, to show support to Aung San Suu Kyi, who also supported the ethnic cleansing. Needless to say Ms. Suu Kyi was thrilled.
  5. These turn of events clearly point to a planned ethnic cleansing exercise that would inconvenience Bangladesh, next to its border with Myanmar.
  6. The goal was to ultimately destabilize Bangladesh economy and halt economic progress, but Bangladesh was already hosting half a million Rohingyas, done with efficient homegrown NGO expertise. and little repercussion was felt when refugees flooded into the CXB area. We were plain lucky.
 

CAPRICORN-88

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These Northern tribal states have always been fighting for independence and separatism and for the longest time.

Today they are probably stoke by foreign power or seized the demonstration as a golden opportunity. :coffee:
 

Jobless Jack

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Well I say this based on a few things (direct and indirect evidence).
  1. As the most influential bordering power to Myanmar and Bangladesh, Indians failed to negotiate a return of Rohingyas to Arakan.
  2. This shows not only India's failure to lead on a humanitarian regional crisis, they showed their tacit approval to Tatmadaw behavior in failing to even protest this.
  3. They were motivated by a few things for this non-protest,
    • Rohingya people are Muslim which suits BJP/RSS philosophy on ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Myanmar, which they have fully supported by Tatmadaw crackdown on Rohingya.
    • Protesting Rohingya ethnic cleansing in Myanmar would hurt Indian Banya selfish interests in developing multiple ports in Myanmar.
    • Indian Banya (Adani Ports) kicked out of Dow Jones Index a few hours ago due to Myanmar Tatmadaw links.
    • S&P Dow Jones Indices said it is removing India’s Adani Ports and Special Economic Zone Ltd from its sustainability index due to the firm’s business ties with Myanmar’s military which is accused of human rights abuses after a coup this year. (https://indianexpress.com/article/b...ndex-business-links-myanmar-military-7271473/). The company, which is building a $290 million port in Yangon on land leased from the military-backed Myanmar Economic Corporation (MEC).
    • India has since not only not sheltered Rohingya refugees, they are trying to push some of these Rohingyas to Bangladesh, saying these are "Bengali" people.
  4. Not only did India not protest the Rohingya ethnic cleansing fiasco, Modi made a special trip to Myanmar immediately a few weeks after, to show support to Aung San Suu Kyi, who also supported the ethnic cleansing. Needless to say Ms. Suu Kyi was thrilled.
  5. These turn of events clearly point to a planned ethnic cleansing exercise that would inconvenience Bangladesh, next to its border with Myanmar.
  6. The goal was to ultimately destabilize Bangladesh economy and halt economic progress, but Bangladesh was already hosting half a million Rohingyas, done with efficient homegrown NGO expertise. and little repercussion was felt when refugees flooded into the CXB area. We were plain lucky.
Well

TBH this will be solved Once awami league goes really. THe Junta choose a Bad time to come to power. Literally everyone hates the Myanmar military now. Ideally the return of Rohingya should be done peacefully. But other wise BD has no choice but to intervene militarily. BD can easily prepare for war in 1-2 years time. War is not ideal, but there is a line in the sand that has to be drawn for the good of the nation

Awami league is getting fat from the foreign donations that is coming in for the Rohingya. Fools. BD must not become a breeding ground for terrorists , just because of their indecisiveness and stupidity. The country has enough problems as it is.
 

bluesky

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I have no idea what you are talking about. What rosy picture? I drew a bleak picture. I have no idea what Germany and Japan fighting in WWs has got to do anything with it? Basically I don't understand what you are talking about.
You should re-read what you write. Were not you asking BD to intervene militarily in Burma? Did I say wrong when BD is a bunch of coward Bengali and are quite different from people of Germany, Japan or England who have shown historically how a nation can be brave and strong? Does BD have any industries to support military buildup to intervene in Arakan/Burma?

Instead of what guys like you say, your Hasina Bibi is always asking us not to stop crying for the 3 million dead, a figure no one in the world believes. Please, do not ask BD to attack MM. The bad Burmese may come inside BD and kill another 30 million coward Bengali this time!!
 

Maira La

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Don't arm Rohingyas, don't arm Rohingyas, don't arm Rohingyas.

Arm the oppressed Buddhist Rakhine people to the teeth. They deserve freedom from the hegemonic and savage Bamars. I don't know why it's not been done yet, but this is the way forward as long as Burma remains unstable.
 

gulli

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India doesn't really care. One of the main reasons that was done in 1971 was because it was a prime opportunity to get rid of half of Pakistan, and free its eastern wing from attack. Furthermore, India expects the junta to stay and fears Myanmar going too deep into China's arm, and China opening a 3-front war on that border in the future. That's why they've deported refugee policemen and military personnel to Myanmar where they will probably face martial law for desertion.
India support Myanmar military action. Su Chi is foreign agent n all those who support her rigged election are all foreign funded ngos. Plus Myanmar military helped us with catching North east insurgent groups..
 

Maira La

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India support Myanmar military action. Su Chi is foreign agent n all those who support her rigged election are all foreign funded ngos. Plus Myanmar military helped us with catching North east insurgent groups..
I'm not sure if this approach is good for India in the long run, no matter how many times they flush out useless rebels from their midst. The Burmese military is close buddies with China and when it's time to pick a side you won't be very pleased.
 

gulli

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I'm not sure if this approach is good for India in the long run, no matter how many times they flush out useless rebels from their midst. The Burmese military is close buddies with China and when it's time to pick a side you won't be very pleased.
I think you dont know that Indian businessman Adani have relationship with Myanmar Army as well. India know to balance things out..
 

Maira La

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I think you dont know that Indian businessman Adani have relationship with Myanmar Army as well. India know to balance things out..
You seriously think that balances out the deeply strategic relation between Burmese military and China? Anyways whatever I said I'm sure people in your gov understand that.
 

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